70sFan wrote:.
cecilthesheep wrote:You're using inconsistent team DRtg as an argument against Wilt, but your guy is Mutombo? By that standard, how do you account for:
1995 Nuggets - Mutombo plays 82 games at 37.8 mpg, team DRtg is 108.2, 14th out of 28
1996 Nuggets - Mutombo plays 74 games at 36.7 mpg, team DRtg is 108.1, 17th out of 29
2000 Hawks - Mutombo plays 82 games at 36.4 mpg, team DRtg is 107.9, 25th out of 29
Team DRtg is a noisy stat and not necessarily indicative of an individual defensive player's ability. That said, if that's your knock on Wilt, Mutombo is a weird candidate to advocate for; I even skipped over some other mediocre-to-bad team defenses of his.
I agree there's an inconsistency to using that as a ding against Wilt but not Mutombo. Personally, I think the record of their respective team defenses (and the before/after effects of them arriving and leaving) is a major credit to BOTH of them (I said as much regarding Wilt in one of my prior posts).
But I wanted to speak directly to some of the more unimpressive team defenses seen in Mutombo's career (quoting 70sFan too, because he'd asked about it).....
This is where before/after and with/without can illuminate some things for us, imo. I'm just going to go thru his entire prime looking thru that lens....
'91 Nuggets (before Mutombo): this was an utterly abysmal [worst in the league] +6.8 rDRTG.
'92 Nuggets (rookie Mutombo arrives): important to note that he isn't the only roster change [there were actually quite a few], so it's difficult to isolate improvements to single players. That said, one could certainly make the case that replacing Blair Rasmussen with Mutombo at C was the most relevant change. Their defense improves to a merely mediocre +0.4 rDRTG (a -6.4 improvement from the previous year).
'93 Nuggets: most notable roster change is the addition of rookie LaPhonso Ellis; also get 2nd-year Robert Pack and they get a new coach (Dan Issel; I wouldn't expect him to be particularly defense-oriented). Improve to -1.7 rDRTG.
'94 Nuggets: now a fairly elite -4.0 rDRTG. 2nd-year Bryant Stith is playing more (I
think he was passable/decent defensively, though I don't really remember), and add rookie Rodney Rogers (think he was OK defensively too).
'95 Nuggets: LaPhonso Ellis misses basically the whole season, putting Rodney Rogers into a starting role as an undersized PF.
Robert Pack misses half the year too, they've added 34-yr-old Dale Ellis and rookie Jalen Rose (neither good defenders at that point),
and they burn thru THREE coaches.
So there's a bit of turmoil, to be sure. They fall to a still respectable -0.1 rDRTG. Worth noting that the two defensive factors that a "verticality" rim-protector like Mutombo is going to effect the most (opp eFG% and DREB%) are the two things the Nuggets were still really good at: 5th in the league in opp eFG%, and 7th in the league in DREB%. But were only 25th (of 27 teams) in opp TOV%, and mediocre in opp FTr.
'96 Nuggets: Roster (and coaching) is a little more stable this year, though they're breaking in some new talent. They've ditched Rodney Rogers and rookie Antonio McDyess is the starting PF (he would eventually be a decent defensive player, but not sure he was as a rookie; arguably no worse than Rodney Rogers at PF though). Increased minutes for Jalen Rose and aging Dale Ellis has largely replaced Reggie Williams on the perimeter (which is probably a small defensive downgrade). Also making some room for minutes to a post-injury Don McLean (not a good defender, if memory serves), and the limited return of post-injury LaPhonso.
They fall marginally to a mediocre +0.5 rDRTG.
'97 Nuggets: Primary roster changes are that Mark Jackson replaces Abdul-Rauf at PG, and Mutombo is now gone (replaced by a decent defensive center in Ervin Johnson). Their defense falls to +4.5 rDRTG (a +4.0 change from the previous year).
'96 Hawks (before Mutombo): This was a team that had Mookie Blaylock at PG, Steve Smith and Stacey Augmon on the perimeter (Augmon very good defensively, Smith fair/respectable iirc). PF Grant Long was also a tough, banging kind of a player with a reasonably solid defensive reputation. They were still surprisingly only a +0.4 rDRTG this season (to be fair, they'd been -3.1 the year before with much the same cast).
'97 Hawks: Mutombo replaces Andrew Lang at C. But other changes include the loss of Grant Long at PF (replaced by Christian Laettner) and Stacey Augmon at SF (replaced by aging Ty Corbin). Mutombo's an obvious upgrade defensively, but one would think the other changes to the starting line-up would be at least a small downgrade defensively. Nonetheless, their rDRTG jumps to an elite-level -4.4 [-4.8 improvement from previous year].
'98 Hawks: Roster pretty stable, but they have an unexplained fall-off defensively, though still respectable at -0.7 rDRTG. fwiw, 9th of 29 teams in opp eFG%, 13th in DREB%.
'99 Hawks: Again swapped Laettner for Grant Long at PF; much the same roster otherwise. Elite-level -5.1 rDRTG (note: 3rd in opp eFG%, 1st in DREB%).
'00 Hawks: Their entire starting line-up [especially the perimeter core] aside from Mutombo is gutted. The one that probably hurts the most defensively is the loss of Mookie Blaylock (replaced by Bimbo Coles and rookie Jason Terry). Smith and Corbin [more or less capable defenders] are gone and replaced by Isaiah Rider and Jim Jackson [both somewhat poor(ish) defenders, iirc]. And Grant Long is gone too. This is a stinker defense: +3.8 rDRTG, 25th (of 29) in the league. fwiw, they did remain 18th and 17th in opp eFG% and DREB%.
'01 Hawks: This is the year Mutombo is traded at the deadline to Philly. The Hawks were a -1.0 rDRTG prior to the trade, and a +8.0 rDRTG after the trade (a
+9.0 swing).
The Sixers do NOT see an improvement defensively when they obtain him (in fact, they worsen a bit). Important to note that 34-year-old Mutombo (not his best form anymore, though
maybe still in his "prime") was replacing Theo Ratliff (a pretty nice defensive anchor in his own right: NPI DRAPM of +3.5 that year, and ranged between +1.9 to +3.6 every year from '01 to '06......likely a really underrated defender his whole career).
Anyway, I guess I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions from that info. The big take-aways I note (allowing for other roster noise as outlined above) is one team improved -6.4 when he arrived, and worsened by +4.0 when he left. The team he went to improved by -4.8 when he arrived, and worsened by +9.0 when he left (sample size a potential issue??). The last team he arrived to did NOT improve (worsened by +2.6 actually, though again sample size likely an issue).
In general, he was a part of good defenses (avg of -1.25 rDRTG over these ten years, peaking at an elite -5.1). The teams he was a part of tended to rate very well in opp eFG% and DREB% (things an interior big is mostly likely to heavily influence), even during years of mediocre overall defense.
This, combined with all the other indicators as previously provided (DRAPM, WOWYR, etc), eye-test, and box figures have me as a pretty firm believer that this was a special defensive anchor, in an all-time sense.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
