Kings General Discussion 2018-2019

[bwgood77]

I see a lot of talk about WCS here is this thread . Their is less than 25% chance he will be a King by seasons end . If Bagley gets right & healthy WCS will be traded . Kings do not feel he will be worth the $$$$$ . He is not consistent and Kings want more of a rim protector and more importantly a consistent big man they can rely on for boards . WCS is not very reliable in those key areas .

Kings have looked into players such as O.Porter , Wiggins & even looked into J.Parker in trade talks . We are more likely to push for a trade for a player more for a fit for this team if we are in the hunt for the playoffs . However if we fall to far back that becomes less likely .

What kind of trade value do you think WCS has?

A mid - late First round pick . Or
Packaging him in a trade with Z-BO or Mclemore expiring and even possibly but more doubtful Shumpert expiring in a deal .

Again 2 targets were looking into are O.Porter & Wiggins if we are in the playoff hunt we will push hard . If we fall out before any deal is their to be had it becomes more doubtful . These are not the only 2 players were looking into but they are our main targets as of now .

Well, Wiggins would certainly be an interesting target given his play and his remaining 4/122 on his contract, particularly with Hield and Bogdan there, both of who are much better.

I don't know if the Wizards would trade Otto, but they could probably use a big even though Thomas Bryant is playing well.

[bwgood77]

Guys we really have some issues with our bigs man.

Every one of them brings forth something of merit, but an open door of trouble. Was sitting pretty low for tonights game, first one of the year for me and you could really see the mass issues.

WCS, runs the floor well when engaged, can switch pretty well. Gets abused and thugged by the big boys and is simply not a good rebounder. Sure he is out of positions sometimes on a switch, but not reliable at all.

Bjelica spreads the floor well, shows high IQ then also occasional too much gamble ball. But he gets manhandled by others bigs too. Even worse is a real athletic and tough big.

Giles looks very promising offensively. But he is a twig out there. Probably some of the reasons he fouls so much. Mechanics with blocking out etc are there, he just doesn't have the mass.

Bagley can score on the inside or drive, but doesn't really spread the floor. Can rebound very well, but not big enough to play the 5 vs a guy like Jocic, a guy like Plumlee can manhandle him too.

Skal, poor man floor spreader, same problems as the others internally.

Kosta, well here is our tough presence, can board. But holy moly, offensively ugly. Sets a decent screen I guess.

I have no idea what we should do.

This is some serious sheehat.

We are a young team - and Bagley and Giles are definitely going to take time to mature. Bjelica is a terrific rotational FC player.

WCS isn't the answer. Koufos will move on.

You have identified the biggest problem with the Kings though. We rank 28th in Defensive Rebounding Percentage. Which is most of the reason that we are ranked 21st in Defensive Rating.

To fix that we need a better rebounding C and SF. Hope Vlade has some magic up those long sleeves of his... reminder that DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Vucevic and Ed Davis will all be UFAs. Set next to Bagley, Giles and Bjelica - that would be a pretty good FC rotation.

And if he could somehow grab Tobias Harris - well, there you have it.

Yeah, I'd go for Vucevic first. He'd be perfect. Moves the ball, can stretch the floor to allow Bagley to work inside on offense, and is better defensively than most think. Jordan wouldn't be bad, but I'd probably pass on him. Harris would be nice but he is going to command a lot of money. Vucevic would be a good target.

[KF10]

I always wanted to throw something hard and heavy across the living room whenever the Kings ball watch and let the other team offensive rebound their own miss and score REPEATEDLY.

To me, that's been the biggest issue -- interior physicality, boards, and 48 minute concentration.

[benchmobbin02]

Ok, looking at the Center FA landscape...What about Wizards RFA Thomas Bryant?

The wiz are up against the cap if they don't make some moves, so prying him away could be possible with the right offer. Bryant reminds me of a bigger Capela. He is only 21 so he can grow with the core as well.

[Sactowndog]

I always wanted to throw something hard and heavy across the living room whenever the Kings ball watch and let the other team offensive rebound their own miss and score REPEATEDLY.

To me, that's been the biggest issue -- interior physicality, boards, and 48 minute concentration.

Willie gets lots of the blame but if you watch the tape a large percentage of the boards came from the 3 position not boxing out or getting jumped over and a couple came when Jackson played the 4 and got pushed under the basket. The Kings need a bigger wing in the worst way.

[dozencousins]

I always wanted to throw something hard and heavy across the living room whenever the Kings ball watch and let the other team offensive rebound their own miss and score REPEATEDLY.

To me, that's been the biggest issue -- interior physicality, boards, and 48 minute concentration.

Willie gets lots of the blame but if you watch the tape a large percentage of the boards came from the 3 position not boxing out or getting jumped over and a couple came when Jackson played the 4 and got pushed under the basket. The Kings need a bigger wing in the worst way.

Rightfully so Willie does deserve most of the blame . He is the biggest problem for us & most inconsistent .
You right in regards to the small forward position we need to fix that . That is why J.Jackson could be had in a deal as well . All the more reason why we may trade for a Wiggins , Porter Jr. possibly J.Winslow though I am really iffy on him . However it is our lack of production from Willie with the boards and him blocking out . His lack of defensive presence which is a huge reason why we drafted him . He has had plenty of time to grow even more so after Cousins was dealt and he has not grown nearly enough .


Like I said before if Bagley gets right and healthy Willie has a 25% or less chance of being a King past this trade deadline . If he is a King still by chance and he does not get a lot better & by years end we would rather have him walk than pay him several years on a contract we would later regret . Willie is likely as good as gone .

We could easily see J.Jackson , 1 of either Mason , Ferrell or Shump traded ( less likely Shump as of now ) as well as Z-Bo , Skal & Koufas ( though if we trade Z-Bo , Willie and Skal then Koufas becomes less likely traded and Mac can be added to any deal as well .
All others not mentioned are highly unlikely to be traded .
We are looking mostly at Small Forwards and a Big that gets boards and has a much better defensive game than Willie and hoping somehow to land a 1st round pick though if were in the playoff hunt then the pick is much less important than the other 2 needs .

[dckingsfan]

As soon as there is consensus that the playoff picture has closed:

Try to get the deal done with Washington for Porter.
Try to trade WCS to a contender for an asset(s).
Try to trade any of the expiring contracts for assets.

Next year:
Try to compete with Orlando for Vucevic in free agency. They are going aother direction with Bamba.
If you can't get the Porter deal done, compete with the Clippers for Harris in FA.

The core of this team is solid... Fox, Bogs, Heild, Bagley and Giles are all going to improve (sans injury) in a nice way. You have to play to see what you have and what you need for the next step. I think this is a good year not to have a pick and let the current crop grow together.

PG: Fox, Bogs
SG: Heild, Bogs
SF: Hole
PF: Bagley; Bjelica
C: Hole, Giles

If you don't have to trade them, don't trade Mason/Ferrell but if you do, it won't hurt.

[dckingsfan]

Ok, looking at the Center FA landscape...What about Wizards RFA Thomas Bryant?

The wiz are up against the cap if they don't make some moves, so prying him away could be possible with the right offer. Bryant reminds me of a bigger Capela. He is only 21 so he can grow with the core as well.

Doesn't rebound the ball well enough...

[benchmobbin02]

Ok, looking at the Center FA landscape...What about Wizards RFA Thomas Bryant?

The wiz are up against the cap if they don't make some moves, so prying him away could be possible with the right offer. Bryant reminds me of a bigger Capela. He is only 21 so he can grow with the core as well.

Doesn't rebound the ball well enough...

Yeah that was a worry obviously but just looking at stats it seems that when he gets mins he gets boards. But I havent watched enough of him to really judge.

[Silver Man]

With Bagley coming back hopefully in a few games we can insert him into the starting lineup and move WCS to the bench unless we are looking to trade him and wanna try to make the value as high as possible.

[benchmobbin02]

With Bagley coming back hopefully in a few games we can insert him into the starting lineup and move WCS to the bench unless we are looking to trade him and wanna try to make the value as high as possible.

Bags is not ready to start in the west at Center. He would get mauled nightly.

I know that what we have currently but pushing a rookie that needs to get way stronger into that role is a firing offense for a coach imo. I think he is more of a PF that needs a bruiser next to him atleast to start the game and then another big off the bench that can stretch the floor for crunch time.

That brings up an interesting question though. What do you see Bags as in 3 years when he fills out?
To make it easy and because I'm too lazy to type out the descriptions I'll just go by comparisons.
KD?
Greek Freak?
AD?
someone lesser...

[Silver Man]

With Bagley coming back hopefully in a few games we can insert him into the starting lineup and move WCS to the bench unless we are looking to trade him and wanna try to make the value as high as possible.

Bags is not ready to start in the west at Center. He would get mauled nightly.

I know that what we have currently but pushing a rookie that needs to get way stronger into that role is a firing offense for a coach imo. I think he is more of a PF that needs a bruiser next to him atleast to start the game and then another big off the bench that can stretch the floor for crunch time.

That brings up an interesting question though. What do you see Bags as in 3 years when he fills out?
To make it easy and because I'm too lazy to type out the descriptions I'll just go by comparisons.
KD?
Greek Freak?
AD?
someone lesser...

He also creates great mismatches for us on the offensive side and its not like WCS is a good defender. The lethalness our offense could have with him in the starting lineup due to the mismatches that WCS absolutely kills us with with for example the Denver game three straight possessions where WCS couldn't score and Nuggets get right back into the game. Yes Bagley will get manhandled defensively but lets not pretend WCS is a great defender or good rebounder.

[benchmobbin02]

With Bagley coming back hopefully in a few games we can insert him into the starting lineup and move WCS to the bench unless we are looking to trade him and wanna try to make the value as high as possible.

Bags is not ready to start in the west at Center. He would get mauled nightly.

I know that what we have currently but pushing a rookie that needs to get way stronger into that role is a firing offense for a coach imo. I think he is more of a PF that needs a bruiser next to him atleast to start the game and then another big off the bench that can stretch the floor for crunch time.

That brings up an interesting question though. What do you see Bags as in 3 years when he fills out?
To make it easy and because I'm too lazy to type out the descriptions I'll just go by comparisons.
KD?
Greek Freak?
AD?
someone lesser...

He also creates great mismatches for us on the offensive side and its not like WCS is a good defender. The lethalness our offense could have with him in the starting lineup due to the mismatches that WCS absolutely kills us with with for example the Denver game three straight possessions where WCS couldn't score and Nuggets get right back into the game. Yes Bagley will get manhandled defensively but lets not pretend WCS is a great defender or good rebounder.

Where did I say anything about WCS? We know his deficiencies. But throwing Bags in there vs any team in the west except Hou and and maybe SA would be foolish THIS YEAR.

The mismatches he offers would be in his quickness, floor stretch, to an extent, and running the floor at this time and those are the benefits that WCS can offer minues the consistent jumper. Bags best offensive weapons are in the post and he isn't strong enough to really take advantage of them vs grown centers.

He just needs more time IMO.

[Silver Man]

Bags is not ready to start in the west at Center. He would get mauled nightly.

I know that what we have currently but pushing a rookie that needs to get way stronger into that role is a firing offense for a coach imo. I think he is more of a PF that needs a bruiser next to him atleast to start the game and then another big off the bench that can stretch the floor for crunch time.

That brings up an interesting question though. What do you see Bags as in 3 years when he fills out?
To make it easy and because I'm too lazy to type out the descriptions I'll just go by comparisons.
KD?
Greek Freak?
AD?
someone lesser...

He also creates great mismatches for us on the offensive side and its not like WCS is a good defender. The lethalness our offense could have with him in the starting lineup due to the mismatches that WCS absolutely kills us with with for example the Denver game three straight possessions where WCS couldn't score and Nuggets get right back into the game. Yes Bagley will get manhandled defensively but lets not pretend WCS is a great defender or good rebounder.

Where did I say anything about WCS? We know his deficiencies. But throwing Bags in there vs any team in the west except Hou and and maybe SA would be foolish THIS YEAR.

The mismatches he offers would be in his quickness, floor stretch, to an extent, and running the floor at this time and those are the benefits that WCS can offer minues the consistent jumper. Bags best offensive weapons are in the post and he isn't strong enough to really take advantage of them vs grown centers.

He just needs more time IMO.

Because Bagley would be replacing WCS so obviously you compare the player who is replacing with the player being replaced. Not a difficult concept.

WCS is so offensively challenged that he kills us and isn't great in any aspect of the game. Like I said our defense that already is bad would suffer a bit but our offensive game would expand quite nicely with Bagley in there.

Of course Bagley needs more time to develop, which is why he should play more in games to get more experience. He's not going to learn anything sitting behind WCS.

[becorz]

I also think WCS might have an issue with a benching at this point in his career. Listening to him, I think he believes he is playing out of his mind. He is definitely having the best year of his career. I think moving him to the bench might make for a sulking WCS. And, if the Kings want to resign him, that won't help at all either.

[benchmobbin02]

Yeah...

Alot at play hear.

Bags is the future or at least we hope so. We put alot of expectations on him.

We have been critical of the team in the past for not playing young guys enough for our liking. So that can shade our objectiveness.

The obvious shortcomings in WCS game. Plus his upcoming free agency.

But my thing is just because we aren't happy with WCS doesn't mean its the correct thing to do is to put Bags in his place. He is less ready to play vs Centers in the league. When I watch Bags rebounding effort I don't see anything that makes me think we'll fair better with him playing instead of WCS. I also have question about whether Bags can play center, atleast without a better rebounder at the PF spot atleast right now.

[codydaze]

Yeah, no chance WCS moves to the bench. I don't think it would be the wise thing to do even if he would accept it.

[KF10]

I always wanted to throw something hard and heavy across the living room whenever the Kings ball watch and let the other team offensive rebound their own miss and score REPEATEDLY.

To me, that's been the biggest issue -- interior physicality, boards, and 48 minute concentration.

[jazanetti]

I think we have to move Bogi back to the bench. JJ should be starting SF.
And we're still able to offer Oubre big contract at summer.

[dckingsfan]

I think we have to move Bogi back to the bench. JJ should be starting SF.
And we're still able to offer Oubre big contract at summer.

I don't think either Oubre or JJ is the solution at SF. My two cents.