Gordon Hayward Thread

[Tiny ball]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

I feel like a lot of Terry Rozier criticism comes as a result of this. I'd like to see Hayward run the point with the second unit.

I would like to see Hayward in Maine. I loved him in Utah.. He just needs lots more work till he is ready to play for Brad. Brad still thinks he has it. But he has lost it.

[Tiny ball]

So can people stop the nonsense he's better without Kyrie? Been reading that for two weeks and it's disgusting. Kyrie was with Gordon when he had a big game in Minnesota and several good games this year.

If anything Gordon should be used more WITH Kyrie and they should be allowed to develop chemistry.

I know the Gordon thing looks shaky, but we treat him at times like he is a scrub so eventually he starts to believe he himself is a scrub.

He's treated like a scrub because for the most part he's playing like a scrub. He's had a very long leash, but it's time to put him on the DL and tell him to rehab for next year. 80% of the time he's hurting the team when he's on the floor. It isn't just the missed shots, it's the lackadasical defense.

He needs to be in Maine working on his game.

[Tiny ball]

Maybe this is what he is? You got to remember he was a playmaker and scorer on a Utah team with no playmakers and mediocre scorers. Maybe on a team with as much depth and talent as Boston has, his abilities just aren't good enough to shine through? He provided just enough offense alongside the team's great defense to make them successful but he isn't actually a great offensive player.

He was a great player now he is not. It is that simple.

[La Flame]

Hayward has had few games where he's shown he can be the player he once was, so he's not completely toast as some of you think. It's still been only 40 games after missing a whole year after his leg got mangled.
The psychological effects of that happening to you don't just disappear like that, it takes time. To me it seems he's a bit depressed and disengaged and playing for Boston there is way more pressure and scrutiny than he ever faced in Utah.
As I've said before, I still think it's going to take another full offseason before Hayward can feel 100% both mentally and physically and play up to his expectations. Seems to me he's afraid of hurting his leg again (at least subconciously) and that's why he's not really aggressive and settles for jumpers too often. Obviously Danny and Brad understand this and know that playing time is the only thing that can help.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Hayward has had few games where he's shown he can be the player he once was, so he's not completely toast as some of you think. It's still been only 40 games after missing a whole year after his leg got mangled.
The psychological effects of that happening to you don't just disappear like that, it takes time. To me it seems he's a bit depressed and disengaged and playing for Boston there is way more pressure and scrutiny than he ever faced in Utah.
As I've said before, I still think it's going to take another full offseason before Hayward can feel 100% both mentally and physically and play up to his expectations. Seems to me he's afraid of hurting his leg again (at least subconciously) and that's why he's not really aggressive and settles for jumpers too often. Obviously Danny and Brad understand this and know that playing time is the only thing that can help.

Exactly. I've been saying this all year. There are way too many Celtics fans who are acting like the dude is being a pussy not coming back from a sprained ankle. It was a bit more severe than that...you don't just all of a sudden regain your form after the surgery, the rehab, more surgery, more rehab, etc.

[personanongrata]

People don't realize how hard it is to come back from an injury like that.

[ballup]

I've been patient with Hayward. I said "give him half a season." Last game felt like such a set back after he had a couple of good games. Not only being passive when Rozier was in the game, but throughout the whole game. Hayward's lack of assertion was frustrating. Maybe he does need more time and I know progress isn't linear. I just don't know what to hope for at this point.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[Throwback24]

People don't realize how hard it is to come back from an injury like that.

Yup and what makes thing harder is that Hayward Jazz fans knew was a better in rhythm 3 pt shooter. He has some really violent bricks. If his shot was a tad bit more consistent you'd see less vitriol.

[soxfan2003]

Hayward last he spoke about it physically is not the same with his injured ankle when it comes to jumping. Basketball isn't all about jumping or even mostly about jumping but it is still a big part of the game for many players. One ankle is significantly weaker than it used to be in terms of jumping. Last reported, he said he has made progress physically but still isn't all the way back.

Now some might say if Hayward isn't 100% physically in terms of ankle/leg, he shouldn't be out there. That is a judgement call of Hayward, Ainge, Stevens and Celtics doctors. I am going to trust them on this one that they know what they are doing. But maybe some revaluation should take place before the playoffs if his progress physically stagnates.

Maybe 3-4 weeks of training/conditioning/medical treatments on his leg around the time of the all-star break or a few weeks after the all-star break could help him out but I think his real problem is physically he is not 100% the way back. Playing in games may give him the best shot to get back closer to 100% physically. I am not qualified to know the best answer to that but I do have real world experience from my own life that clues me in about the importance of being in top condition while playing basketball.

Gruesome injury so they could do all of the right things and he may never be the same. I am concerned but the concern isn't at the Greg Oden level where I kind of recognized the guy may never be the same after his early career injuries.

As others have pointed out, Hayward has had two surgeries. If he is never the same that is just how the cookie crumbles. I mentioned Grant Hill since it obviously happened to him. It would be unfortunate for him and the Celtics but no one is really to blame. I don't think Crowder was trying to hurt him. Hayward appears to be trying his best to come back. That is all one can ask for in a situation like this.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Dude needs to respond tomorrow. Not asking for 30, but make your presence felt. You are a goddamn All Star. Step up and play basketball.

[amory87]

I think everyone just expected way too much of him this season.

He still looks tentative. Now, is that because he's still worried about the injury, or because he's not confident of his fit on this team, or because he didn't play competitive basketball for a year and now he's had to re-learn a lot? Probably at least a little of all of those things. It's cliche, and it sucks to have to say "wait until next year", but I just don't think you can honestly evaluate what he is as a basketball player post-injury until then.

[MyInsatiableOne]

I think everyone just expected way too much of him this season.

He still looks tentative. Now, is that because he's still worried about the injury, or because he's not confident of his fit on this team, or because he didn't play competitive basketball for a year and now he's had to re-learn a lot? Probably at least a little of all of those things. It's cliche, and it sucks to have to say "wait until next year", but I just don't think you can honestly evaluate what he is as a basketball player post-injury until then.

Seriously. I can't believe how many C's fans want to give up on this guy already because he's not back to his old self after all of 40 games. Most of us who had his injury wouldn't even be running by now and this dude was back playing **** NBA basketball in less than a year. Ridiculous.

[Ed Pinkney]

He gets a 100% pass from me. The only way he can get his body and mind back to playing consistent NBA basketball is by playing consistent NBA basketball. And it probably won’t be until next season either in my opinion.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I get he is coming back from injury but why is it he can bring it for say 3 games in a row then be absolutely trash the next 5? He scored a total of 17 points IN THREE GAMES.

Injury excuse is over considering he looks like an actual NBA player for a few games then a G-Leauge players the next 5.

Dude has a fork in his back, he is toast or in him or whatever term you want to use. His contract is a sunk cost and what we have here is Jeff Green with a much worse contract. I have given up on Hayward every being a good NBA player again.

[canman1971]

I get he is coming back from injury but why is it he can bring it for say 3 games in a row then be absolutely trash the next 5? He scored a total of 17 points IN THREE GAMES.

Injury excuse is over conserving he looks like an actual NBA player for a few games then a G-Leauge players the next 5.

Dude has a fork in his back, he is toast or in him or whatever term you want to use. His contract is a sunk cost and what we have here is Jeff Green with a much worse contract. I have given up on Hayward every being a good NBA player again.

I'm sure part of it is physical. I'm not sure you remember how horrific that injury was? However, I believe a lot of it is mental. Like trusting your body to do what it can without being hurt. I'm guessing many who post here have had bad injuries and realize how hard it is to get "comfortable" and forget what happened. Now imagine that on the NBA level. Not exactly slow or non-physical. Damn it took me over a year to stop wearing an ankle brace after a really bad sprain, even though I knew it was fine. And I was just playing pick up. And I am a strong minded person and extremely tolerant of pain. So, I'm sure Hayward is dealing with something along the lines of this. But also, the roster is a mess and Stevens, along with Ainge, need to address that.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I get he is coming back from injury but why is it he can bring it for say 3 games in a row then be absolutely trash the next 5? He scored a total of 17 points IN THREE GAMES.

Injury excuse is over conserving he looks like an actual NBA player for a few games then a G-Leauge players the next 5.

Dude has a fork in his back, he is toast or in him or whatever term you want to use. His contract is a sunk cost and what we have here is Jeff Green with a much worse contract. I have given up on Hayward every being a good NBA player again.

I'm sure part of it is physical. I'm not sure you remember how horrific that injury was? However, I believe a lot of it is mental. Like trusting your body to do what it can without being hurt. I'm guessing many who post here have had bad injuries and realize how hard it is to get "comfortable" and forget what happened. Now imagine that on the NBA level. Not exactly slow or non-physical. Damn it took me over a year to stop wearing an ankle brace after a really bad sprain, even though I knew it was fine. And I was just playing pick up. And I am a strong minded person and extremely tolerant of pain. So, I'm sure Hayward is dealing with something along the lines of this. But also, the roster is a mess and Stevens, along with Ainge, need to address that.

I get it but I still don't know what he plays well for 4 games then looks awful the next 5? I do agree with you about this roster being a mess though. Guys pointing fingers, saying **** to the media pushing and shoving during timeouts and team meeting (team meeting never work and are a sure sign there are interball problems.) are just some of the problems we are aware of.

[canman1971]

I get he is coming back from injury but why is it he can bring it for say 3 games in a row then be absolutely trash the next 5? He scored a total of 17 points IN THREE GAMES.

Injury excuse is over conserving he looks like an actual NBA player for a few games then a G-Leauge players the next 5.

Dude has a fork in his back, he is toast or in him or whatever term you want to use. His contract is a sunk cost and what we have here is Jeff Green with a much worse contract. I have given up on Hayward every being a good NBA player again.

I'm sure part of it is physical. I'm not sure you remember how horrific that injury was? However, I believe a lot of it is mental. Like trusting your body to do what it can without being hurt. I'm guessing many who post here have had bad injuries and realize how hard it is to get "comfortable" and forget what happened. Now imagine that on the NBA level. Not exactly slow or non-physical. Damn it took me over a year to stop wearing an ankle brace after a really bad sprain, even though I knew it was fine. And I was just playing pick up. And I am a strong minded person and extremely tolerant of pain. So, I'm sure Hayward is dealing with something along the lines of this. But also, the roster is a mess and Stevens, along with Ainge, need to address that.

I get it but I still don't know what he plays well for 4 games then looks awful the next 5? I do agree with you about this roster being a mess though. Guys pointing fingers, saying **** to the media pushing and shoving during timeouts and team meeting (team meeting never work and are a sure sign there are interball problems.) are just some of the problems we are aware of.

I just think it has to do with a lot of variable. The mental part, how teams defend him, and the dysfunction within the team. Heck, my first year in college I had a game where I scored 38 points, and the next game I scored 4 and I wasn't coming off of an injury. Obviously, totally different levels, but I understand. The pressure on him is much more than me. I was getting double and triple teamed (which to this day I still don't know why) but I got so frustrated it took me out of my game. So I am guessing GH is a little frustrated. We forget NBA player are human too.

[mbsnmisc]

Hayward last he spoke about it physically is not the same with his injured ankle when it comes to jumping. Basketball isn't all about jumping or even mostly about jumping but it is still a big part of the game for many players. One ankle is significantly weaker than it used to be in terms of jumping. Last reported, he said he has made progress physically but still isn't all the way back.

Now some might say if Hayward isn't 100% physically in terms of ankle/leg, he shouldn't be out there. That is a judgement call of Hayward, Ainge, Stevens and Celtics doctors. I am going to trust them on this one that they know what they are doing. But maybe some revaluation should take place before the playoffs if his progress physically stagnates.

Maybe 3-4 weeks of training/conditioning/medical treatments on his leg around the time of the all-star break or a few weeks after the all-star break could help him out but I think his real problem is physically he is not 100% the way back. Playing in games may give him the best shot to get back closer to 100% physically. I am not qualified to know the best answer to that but I do have real world experience from my own life that clues me in about the importance of being in top condition while playing basketball.

Gruesome injury so they could do all of the right things and he may never be the same. I am concerned but the concern isn't at the Greg Oden level where I kind of recognized the guy may never be the same after his early career injuries.

As others have pointed out, Hayward has had two surgeries. If he is never the same that is just how the cookie crumbles. I mentioned Grant Hill since it obviously happened to him. It would be unfortunate for him and the Celtics but no one is really to blame. I don't think Crowder was trying to hurt him. Hayward appears to be trying his best to come back. That is all one can ask for in a situation like this.

I disagree. I don't think he wanted to break GH's ankle, but I do think he wanted to send a message. I have watched a couple of thousand NBA games in my life, doesn't make me any kind of expert, but hip checking a guy going for an alley-oop is dirty at the minimum and borderline criminal if it results in a serious injury. How would you react if some guy you had a history with cut you going for a layup? Would you want to fight? I know my answer to that question.

If the Boston fans had not cheered Hayward and had Jae not reacted the way he did after the Jazz v Celtics game last year in Boston I might chalk it up as an unfortunate accident. But Jae was hurt by the (rightfully) perceived slight. I will go to my grave believing that Jae, (and possibly LeBron), wanted to knock Hayward on his ass early in that game to let him know he hadn't forgotten and to send a message.

[OldCeltics]

Hayward last he spoke about it physically is not the same with his injured ankle when it comes to jumping. Basketball isn't all about jumping or even mostly about jumping but it is still a big part of the game for many players. One ankle is significantly weaker than it used to be in terms of jumping. Last reported, he said he has made progress physically but still isn't all the way back.

Now some might say if Hayward isn't 100% physically in terms of ankle/leg, he shouldn't be out there. That is a judgement call of Hayward, Ainge, Stevens and Celtics doctors. I am going to trust them on this one that they know what they are doing. But maybe some revaluation should take place before the playoffs if his progress physically stagnates.

Maybe 3-4 weeks of training/conditioning/medical treatments on his leg around the time of the all-star break or a few weeks after the all-star break could help him out but I think his real problem is physically he is not 100% the way back. Playing in games may give him the best shot to get back closer to 100% physically. I am not qualified to know the best answer to that but I do have real world experience from my own life that clues me in about the importance of being in top condition while playing basketball.

Gruesome injury so they could do all of the right things and he may never be the same. I am concerned but the concern isn't at the Greg Oden level where I kind of recognized the guy may never be the same after his early career injuries.

As others have pointed out, Hayward has had two surgeries. If he is never the same that is just how the cookie crumbles. I mentioned Grant Hill since it obviously happened to him. It would be unfortunate for him and the Celtics but no one is really to blame. I don't think Crowder was trying to hurt him. Hayward appears to be trying his best to come back. That is all one can ask for in a situation like this.

I disagree. I don't think he wanted to break GH's ankle, but I do think he wanted to send a message. I have watched a couple of thousand NBA games in my life, doesn't make me any kind of expert, but hip checking a guy going for an alley-oop is dirty at the minimum and borderline criminal if it results in a serious injury. How would you react if some guy you had a history with cut you going for a layup? Would you want to fight? I know my answer to that question.

If the Boston fans had not cheered Hayward and had Jae not reacted the way he did after the Jazz v Celtics game last year in Boston I might chalk it up as an unfortunate accident. But Jae was hurt by the (rightfully) perceived slight. I will go to my grave believing that Jae, (and possibly LeBron), wanted to knock Hayward on his ass early in that game to let him know he hadn't forgotten and to send a message.

Crowder new exactly what he was doing. He didn't want to injure him, but instead to rough him up as revenge for him leaving Boston to free up cash for Hayward. The worst part he did id slyly so that no one would see, and then denied it.

[djFan71]

I'm sure part of it is physical. I'm not sure you remember how horrific that injury was? However, I believe a lot of it is mental. Like trusting your body to do what it can without being hurt. I'm guessing many who post here have had bad injuries and realize how hard it is to get "comfortable" and forget what happened. Now imagine that on the NBA level. Not exactly slow or non-physical. Damn it took me over a year to stop wearing an ankle brace after a really bad sprain, even though I knew it was fine. And I was just playing pick up. And I am a strong minded person and extremely tolerant of pain. So, I'm sure Hayward is dealing with something along the lines of this. But also, the roster is a mess and Stevens, along with Ainge, need to address that.

I get it but I still don't know what he plays well for 4 games then looks awful the next 5? I do agree with you about this roster being a mess though. Guys pointing fingers, saying **** to the media pushing and shoving during timeouts and team meeting (team meeting never work and are a sure sign there are interball problems.) are just some of the problems we are aware of.

I just think it has to do with a lot of variable. The mental part, how teams defend him, and the dysfunction within the team. Heck, my first year in college I had a game where I scored 38 points, and the next game I scored 4 and I wasn't coming off of an injury. Obviously, totally different levels, but I understand. The pressure on him is much more than me. I was getting double and triple teamed (which to this day I still don't know why) but I got so frustrated it took me out of my game. So I am guessing GH is a little frustrated. We forget NBA player are human too.

I agree it's a lot of things. Physically, he still says it's sore after games. Mentally he doesn't challenge to score when he drives. Then I think there's just a rhythm thing. He's only played 45-ish games (counting preseason) since he's been cleared to play 5 on 5. That 2nd surgery setback was a big deal. Now he's finding his role on a new team which, just so happens to not be doing great with that role definition thing. Add all that up and of course he's going to be inconsistent.