Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#21 » by Cappy_Smurf » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:50 am

babyjax13 wrote: we traded the picks that were Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant. Currently, both players are starting caliber guys.


Do people actually believe Josh Hart is a starting caliber player? I mean, I guess he could be in the sense that anybody playing next to LeBron could technically be a starter.

Also, I disagree completely with the premise of this thread. Too soon to be coming to these kinds of conclusions. A lot of fans around the league assume that Epke Udoh is trash and not a good player based on the fact he can't get minutes in Utah, but that situation really has more to do with Quin having to find minutes for Favors that aren't next to Rudy. We all saw how good Udoh was as a backup when he first started and was getting the backup C minutes.

Bradley may or may not become a decent player in the NBA, but I don't know how anyone could believe they have enough info to make that judgement at this point. As for Hart, he'd be in pretty much the exact same spot Grayson Allen is in, if Utah had drafted him. I think it's completely possible Allen ends up being the better player.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#22 » by zero24gravity » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:02 pm

sipclip wrote:That is the so called justification but I highly doubt the spurs let anyone know besides there core group of they were taking Bradley. I think that is more likely the jazz leaking that to justify moving up. In the end we will never know though and the spurs couldn't be happier with Derrick White.

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If you have "a guy" you move up to get him if you can, you don't hope he falls to you. That's smart GM'ing (even if it doesn't always work out, which it doesn't for ANY F.O.).
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#23 » by sipclip » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:22 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
sipclip wrote:That is the so called justification but I highly doubt the spurs let anyone know besides there core group of they were taking Bradley. I think that is more likely the jazz leaking that to justify moving up. In the end we will never know though and the spurs couldn't be happier with Derrick White.

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If you have "a guy" you move up to get him if you can, you don't hope he falls to you. That's smart GM'ing (even if it doesn't always work out, which it doesn't for ANY F.O.).
I agree completely but the fact that our front office viewed Bradley in that light is disturbing. He showed absolutely nothing to justify that type of attention.

Also this is a stupid thing to be bothered by now since we were still able to get Rudy but that fact that we traded 2 1sts to move up to get Trey Burke when the jazz were supposedly in love with Rudy and took the risk that they would still be able to trade back into the 1st to get him has always bothered me. It shows a level of recklessness that I don't like. I do know for a fact though that the jazz metric guys had Burke as the highest rated pg coming out of college since Chris Paul so they were clearly in love with him.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#24 » by zero24gravity » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:39 pm

sipclip wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
sipclip wrote:That is the so called justification but I highly doubt the spurs let anyone know besides there core group of they were taking Bradley. I think that is more likely the jazz leaking that to justify moving up. In the end we will never know though and the spurs couldn't be happier with Derrick White.

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If you have "a guy" you move up to get him if you can, you don't hope he falls to you. That's smart GM'ing (even if it doesn't always work out, which it doesn't for ANY F.O.).
I agree completely but the fact that our front office viewed Bradley in that light is disturbing. He showed absolutely nothing to justify that type of attention.

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Meh, they also moved up recently to get guys named Mitchell & Gobert, so I'm not too concerned over whiffing on Bradley (even though I agree that I'm not sure what they saw in him that made him seem worth moving up to get), and moving up to get Trey Burke (who at the time was the best PG option in a weak draft class). The positive far outweighs the negative, which is really all people should expect. It's a very imperfect science.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#25 » by stitches » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:56 pm

Spoiler:
Image


That's a joke but lets be serious. When will be the time to pronounce someone a bust? How many seasons does one need to not be able to beat off Ekpe Udoh for rotation minutes for us to legitimately think that the pick has not worked out?
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#26 » by KqWIN » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:49 pm

stitches wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


That's a joke but lets be serious. When will be the time to pronounce someone a bust? How many seasons does one need to not be able to beat off Ekpe Udoh for rotation minutes for us to legitimately think that the pick has not worked out?


He has to beat out Willie Reed first...
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#27 » by Dozer! » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:28 pm

Ouch, what a bad trade. There was a lot of talent around those picks and we pick the one stinker. I always kinda thought the Jazz
had the trade in place and were hoping to get Kuzma but the Lakers snatched him the pick before. But damn, if Bradley was their guy. :banghead:
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#28 » by Winglish » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:22 am

JazzyPhinz wrote:Im a Bradley hater. Get rid of him.
Same. I hated the pick on draft night and I still hate the pick.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#29 » by eLo » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:57 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:My point wasn't necessarily about specific players, it's that multiple shots late in the draft are almost always a better proposition than one slightly higher pick.

Lindsey's disdain for 2nd round picks isn't doing the Jazz any favors.

yep, he is so shortsighted with this 2rd picks, and in past Jazz fo prove that you can fint there a true steal like Sap for ex.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#30 » by ForeverRDjazz » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Also this is a stupid thing to be bothered by now since we were still able to get Rudy but that fact that we traded 2 1sts to move up to get Trey Burke when the jazz were supposedly in love with Rudy and took the risk that they would still be able to trade back into the 1st to get him has always bothered me. It shows a level of recklessness that I don't like. I do know for a fact though that the jazz metric guys had Burke as the highest rated pg coming out of college since Chris Paul so they were clearly in love with him.

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We could've keep both picks. I'd took the Greek freak our first pick then Rudy second pick. Didn't know anything about Rudy that year but knew enough about the freak who was on my radar. Just think how good we could be? In the past and nothing can do but be happy we got Rudy.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#31 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:14 pm

Didn't want to open a new thread and didn't want this to get swallowed up in another thread, so here is a short article\interview about Bradley's improvement in Summer League:

NBA Daily: Tony Bradley Shows Growth In Summer League
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-tony-bradley-shows-growth-in-summer-league/
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#32 » by KqWIN » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:43 pm

I'm excited that our two year gamble on a lumbering third big man is looking like it'll pay off.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#33 » by Daddy 801 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:14 pm

Can someone who has stayed up to date on the CBA and these guys who go up and down between the GLeague explain how their contracts work.

If we like him and add him to the roster this year how many more years do we have him? If he plays decent and we want to keep him is he restricted? Does him playing in the GLeague so long impact his contract in anyway?

I really have no clue as I haven’t read the CBA in years. I can’t remember the details. But I’d be bummed if he finally starts playing well and it’s right in time for his contract to expire and we lose him because we don’t have bird rights or something like that due to GLeague time.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#34 » by KqWIN » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:36 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:Can someone who has stayed up to date on the CBA and these guys who go up and down between the GLeague explain how their contracts work.

If we like him and add him to the roster this year how many more years do we have him? If he plays decent and we want to keep him is he restricted? Does him playing in the GLeague so long impact his contract in anyway?

I really have no clue as I haven’t read the CBA in years. I can’t remember the details. But I’d be bummed if he finally starts playing well and it’s right in time for his contract to expire and we lose him because we don’t have bird rights or something like that due to GLeague time.


Tony Bradley has a standard, NBA rookie contract. The amount of time he spends in the D-League doesn't effect him.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#35 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:16 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:Didn't want to open a new thread and didn't want this to get swallowed up in another thread, so here is a short article\interview about Bradley's improvement in Summer League:

NBA Daily: Tony Bradley Shows Growth In Summer League
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-tony-bradley-shows-growth-in-summer-league/


Happy to see the improvement. Curious how well it translates when the NBA season starts.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#36 » by Daddy 801 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:10 am

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:Can someone who has stayed up to date on the CBA and these guys who go up and down between the GLeague explain how their contracts work.

If we like him and add him to the roster this year how many more years do we have him? If he plays decent and we want to keep him is he restricted? Does him playing in the GLeague so long impact his contract in anyway?

I really have no clue as I haven’t read the CBA in years. I can’t remember the details. But I’d be bummed if he finally starts playing well and it’s right in time for his contract to expire and we lose him because we don’t have bird rights or something like that due to GLeague time.


Tony Bradley has a standard, NBA rookie contract. The amount of time he spends in the D-League doesn't effect him.


Thanks. Just looked up his contract. He better be able to perform this year or we aren't going to pick up that 3.5 million dollar option in 20/21.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#37 » by CAE15 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 4:03 am

Daddy 801 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:Can someone who has stayed up to date on the CBA and these guys who go up and down between the GLeague explain how their contracts work.

If we like him and add him to the roster this year how many more years do we have him? If he plays decent and we want to keep him is he restricted? Does him playing in the GLeague so long impact his contract in anyway?

I really have no clue as I haven’t read the CBA in years. I can’t remember the details. But I’d be bummed if he finally starts playing well and it’s right in time for his contract to expire and we lose him because we don’t have bird rights or something like that due to GLeague time.


Tony Bradley has a standard, NBA rookie contract. The amount of time he spends in the D-League doesn't effect him.


Thanks. Just looked up his contract. He better be able to perform this year or we aren't going to pick up that 3.5 million dollar option in 20/21.
Very little reason we wouldn't pick up his option as we're going to be over the cap anyway.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#38 » by Winglish » Tue Jul 9, 2019 4:34 am

I still think Tony Bradley is pretty much a lurp. Maybe he can become our Psycho T.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#39 » by Denizfeital » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:27 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Not sure if this is quite thread worthy, but YOLO. When we traded for Tony Bradley we traded the picks that were Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant. Currently, both players are starting caliber guys at their respective positions, while Bradley isn't really an NBA player. I think our FO is generally pretty good, but they've devalued second round picks (an area we've historically been very good at). Another player we recently let go - Tyrone Wallace - who is an NBA level rotation player. So even now we've had an above average hit rate.


Interesting topic.

Without even researching it, I would bet that the players that were selected one position ahead of those mentioned above, or one behind of those are already out of the league.

Going straight to the point, I think this has more to do with lucky than anything else. I mean it. Even today with lots of statistics, lots of scouting we still can fail miserably when it comes to draft a guy in the second round.

I would not be worried about it. It is how it is.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#40 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 7:17 pm

Denizfeital wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Not sure if this is quite thread worthy, but YOLO. When we traded for Tony Bradley we traded the picks that were Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant. Currently, both players are starting caliber guys at their respective positions, while Bradley isn't really an NBA player. I think our FO is generally pretty good, but they've devalued second round picks (an area we've historically been very good at). Another player we recently let go - Tyrone Wallace - who is an NBA level rotation player. So even now we've had an above average hit rate.


Interesting topic.

Without even researching it, I would bet that the players that were selected one position ahead of those mentioned above, or one behind of those are already out of the league.

Going straight to the point, I think this has more to do with lucky than anything else. I mean it. Even today with lots of statistics, lots of scouting we still can fail miserably when it comes to draft a guy in the second round.

I would not be worried about it. It is how it is.

Regards,


I think you are right. The main point is that later picks are a crapshoot and trading 2 for 1 is generally a bad idea if you have the space for both (esp. with 2 way contracts). FWIW before Josh Hart was Derrick White (who is even better), before Bradley was Kuzma, and before Bryant was Tyler Dorsey (who is an NBA rotation player) and after was Isiah Hartstenstein (again, NBA player). But that was a historically deep draft.
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