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Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread

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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#81 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:29 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Ruzious - Who do you like at the #4 pick in this year's draft ?
My current feeling is that there's no prospect slotted at #4 who would be worth trading Beal's production and upside.
Maybe if it was in a draft class like 2018 or 2017, but this year's crop seems fairly weak to me after Z Williamson.

Honestly a trade-down. If I was going by who I think is the 4th best player, it'd be Garland - but my guess is that he'll be there at 10, so trade down to 8 or 9 to be pretty sure to get him.

I think you suggested this a week or so ago, no? I agreed then, & I agree now. For reasons I've described too many times to repeat here!

If we jump to #4, there's a good chance that one of the teams we leapfrogged is Atlanta. Atlanta would be sitting at #6 or #7. They also have the #12 pick. Would they trade #7 plus #12 for #4? That would be glorious for us if we could still land Garland at #7. Maybe move down from #12 to #14 (with the Celtics giving us a 2nd rounder or two) and still grab Clarke at #14?
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#82 » by Ruzious » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:36 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Honestly a trade-down. If I was going by who I think is the 4th best player, it'd be Garland - but my guess is that he'll be there at 10, so trade down to 8 or 9 to be pretty sure to get him.

I think you suggested this a week or so ago, no? I agreed then, & I agree now. For reasons I've described too many times to repeat here!

If we jump to #4, there's a good chance that one of the teams we leapfrogged is Atlanta. Atlanta would be sitting at #6 or #7. They also have the #12 pick. Would they trade #7 plus #12 for #4? That would be glorious for us if we could still land Garland at #7. Maybe move down from #12 to #14 (with the Celtics giving us a 2nd rounder or two) and still grab Clarke at #14?

Yes, that would be exactly the kind of trade I would look for - and I think Pif would. As Dat pointed out, this draft is a bid dicey after the top 3, so there'd have to be a player at 4 - in that hypothetical that Atl would be particularly interested in. Maybe a player will shoot up to the top 4 with a great NCAA tournament - or maybe a foreign prospect shoots up. Keldon Johnson and Nassir Little are swingmen who could move up to that 4 spot, but they're both questionmarks now.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#83 » by doclinkin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 am

I saw a note that said Thomas Bryant has now hit the 41 game mark as a starter and qualifies for a $3m qualifying offer in the offseason, and this will count as a cap hold at that $3m figure.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#84 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:45 am

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Simple.

Keep Portis.

Draft Bruno Fernando or Daniel Gafford. Use Round 2 to draft Shamorie Ponds
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#85 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:58 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:1. Ernie will do anything he needs to do, pay any amount he has to pay, to keep at least one of Portis & Parker. Otherwise, he'll have made himself look like a bozo (pick a guy #3 in the draft, max him, then give him away for no return). Ernie never does anything that reveals his mistakes. No matter how much he gives 1 or both those guys, however bad the overpay(s) he will still have kicked the can down the road, which is all that matters to him.

Ernie won't do anything. He won't go $10M over the luxtax, for example. And that's what it would probably cost to retain all three of Ariza, Portis and Parker, assuming Sato is also kept.


payitforward wrote:2. Yes, Bobby Portis is certainly worth more than $7-9m. That's pitched too low in the current NBA. But, $16m -- what he wants -- is too high, I agree. But the fact that he turned down 4 yrs/$50m doesn't mean Ernie can't sign him for @$12m a year. It'll just be for 2 years instead of 4. That's a good bet for Bobby & his agent. Salaries will continue to rise.

I agree that Portis will probably cost too much. I think he is the guy that is likely to get priced out of the Wizards salary range.

payitforward wrote:3. If someone gives Jabari Parker a 3 year contract for $15-18m a year -- a guy who has PROVEN he's a bust over almost 5 years in the league -- they are nuts. I don't think anybody is quite that nuts.

It would be nuts to give him that, right now, today. But if he plays for the next 30 games as well as he played the last 2, then the calculation starts to change. The Parker that I have seen for the last 2 games is a difference maker - a guy worth $15M. The only question is whether or not that guy I've seen for the past 2 games is likely to remain that guy for the next 2-4 seasons. Making that gamble right now would be wildly reckless. But making it after 30 games of very good play is merely a gamble. It could work out, or maybe it doesn't. But at least there's a plausible chance of it working out. There's no reason to discuss it further right now. Let's wait 30 games and see how things look.

payitforward wrote:4. But, if Bobby goes elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ernie offer Parker a $15m 1-year contract -- good faith, make good. But, keep in mind: that's what his $20m contract with the Bulls was! Moreover, they played him 27 minutes a game for the first 39 games of the season. He was so bad that they proceeded to make him inactive.

I would be very surprised to see a fat, 1-year offer for Portis. We just don't have the luxtax room to be offering big money up front. If anything, I think EG will go the other way and try to get Portis a little cheaper by signing him to a very long-term deal.

payitforward wrote:That's not the way I'd go. If I offered him anything at all it would be a 3-year contract with a cheap first year & team options for years 2 & 3, & quite big raises for each of those years. Make him prove something.

You can't have multiple team options in the same contract (except on a rookie 1st round pick contract).

Ahhh -- thanks for the info.

Re: 1 -- I agree he won't be able to keep all 3 of them. Plus, one way to "keep" Portis would be simply to give him his qualifying offer & then let yourself be priced out, so that you can claim there was nothing you could do about it. I hadn't thought of that possibility. Still, I will be surprised if he doesn't prioritize Portis over Ariza. We'll see....

Re 2 -- ... a 2-year contract might work. Ernie hides his error by keeping Portis.

Re 3 -- You're an old hand, nate. Surely you aren't judging Jabari on 2 games! :) But, sure, lets just pay attention. For that matter, as with any player, I'd be really pleased to see this kid get it together.

Re 4 -- I was talking about Parker not Portis (...it's funny that it's Porter, Parker, Portis I have to say!)
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#86 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:04 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Simple.

Keep Portis.

Draft Bruno Fernando or Daniel Gafford. Use Round 2 to draft Shamorie Ponds

We are unlikely to have the $$ to keep Portis, CCJ. & we don't have a R2 pick, so no Ponds either. :(
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#87 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:40 am

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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#88 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:42 am

payitforward wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Simple.

Keep Portis.

Draft Bruno Fernando or Daniel Gafford. Use Round 2 to draft Shamorie Ponds

We are unlikely to have the $$ to keep Portis, CCJ. & we don't have a R2 pick, so no Ponds either. :(


ERNIE claims they can buy a round 2; and, he hints they don't need no stinkin' round two since there is G LEAGUE.

:noway:

I wouldn't put it past him to (ONCE AGAIN) trade the round 1 pick
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#89 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:45 am

THE STATE OF THE WIZARDS

SUCKS (TBH)

However, I've been through so much and a good friend passed recently. I'll persist in mentioning the positive: THEY REALLY DO HAVE GUYS WHO ARE TRYING TO GAIN TRACTION IN THE LEAGUE. I ENJOY WATCHING POTENTIALLY GOOD PLAYERS.

Ernie's f'd up the cap and probably NONE will still be Wizards...

BUT, until they're officially eliminated from the playoffs: I'm going to enjoy whatever I can find pleasure in.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#90 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:14 am

payitforward wrote:
Re 4 -- I was talking about Parker not Portis (...it's funny that it's Porter, Parker, Portis I have to say!)

Yeah, the Porter, Portis, Parker thing is going to trip me up at least another 20 times over these next few weeks.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#91 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:15 am

Not to mention there are 2 Porters that will likely go in the first round - Jontay and KP2.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#92 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am

One of the worst things the Wizards could do this offseason is throw a ton of money once again at the C position.

It also appears to be a popular idea around here with the suggestions of keeping both Bryant & Portis.

This despite Cs across the league eating the Wizards front line for lunch this season with Andre Drummond being the latest example.

I know they young & developing but as I mentioned a few days back, the C position is a very crowded position as more PFs like Faried are forced to switch to C to stay relevant. Many rosters are filled with one or two traditional bigs on contracts their teams now regret. The FA market will be flooded with capable names. It doesn't make sense to pour a ton of money here.

I think the Wizards should only keep one of the two. I'd lean Bryant because in time you hope he can get stronger and improve his awareness. He also will likely be cheaper because he isn't making 5-6 3s a game.

Portis brings a scoring element but may be capped as a bench player due to defensive limitations. Does it make sense to use limited resources on a backup C with a muted impact because he's a poor defender?

Spending a ton of money here ensures other needs will go unaddressed.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#93 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:15 pm

Thing is - it was a conventional center - Drummond - that beat up on the Wiz. And Griffin - a big physical PF - completely destroyed our PF's - Green and Parker were awful trying to guard him. I think Portis' best position is PF, and Parker's probably the odd man out - depending on how the rest of the season goes. Additionally, the team needs to add another big - cheaply - that can defend.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#94 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:Thing is - it was a conventional center - Drummond - that beat up on the Wiz. And Griffin - a big physical PF - completely destroyed our PF's - Green and Parker were awful trying to guard him. I think Portis' best position is PF, and Parker's probably the odd man out - depending on how the rest of the season goes. Additionally, the team needs to add another big - cheaply - that can defend.


History says that's not the case at all. Portis is much better off at the C position. He doesn't have the foot speed for the PF position. He's been at least playable at C, unplayable at PF.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#95 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:18 pm

Who's this history guy? One thing Portis has impressed me on was his running the court. He got a couple of transition buckets last night. He did get a travelling call after he out-ran the Pistons center one time before he dunked, but most times that doesn't get called. He certainly has the length and strength to play PF, and I think those were the main things missing with our players trying to defend Griffin.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#96 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:28 pm

Dat2U wrote:One of the worst things the Wizards could do this offseason is throw a ton of money once again at the C position.

It also appears to be a popular idea around here with the suggestions of keeping both Bryant & Portis.

This despite Cs across the league eating the Wizards front line for lunch this season with Andre Drummond being the latest example.

I know they young & developing but as I mentioned a few days back, the C position is a very crowded position as more PFs like Faried are forced to switch to C to stay relevant. Many rosters are filled with one or two traditional bigs on contracts their teams now regret. The FA market will be flooded with capable names. It doesn't make sense to pour a ton of money here.

I think the Wizards should only keep one of the two. I'd lean Bryant because in time you hope he can get stronger and improve his awareness. He also will likely be cheaper because he isn't making 5-6 3s a game.

Portis brings a scoring element but may be capped as a bench player due to defensive limitations. Does it make sense to use limited resources on a backup C with a muted impact because he's a poor defender?

Spending a ton of money here ensures other needs will go unaddressed.

Good point. Centers are a dime-a-dozen these days. Unless you are considering a center who is a game-changing defender (Gobert, Adams) or a true playmaker on offense (Jokic, Cousins) or someone very good and versatile at both ends (Davis, Embiid, Horford) then you shouldn't pay much at all.

Neither Bryant or Portis fit the above categories. They're both playable because they can rebound and hit 3's, but neither are very good just yet. I said in my original post that Bryant should cost maybe $5M. Maybe we should hold out for even less. And I agree that we don't need both Bryant and Portis because we have more pressing needs at other positions (and we still have Mahinmi as an emergency backup center). The bottom line is that if Portis costs too much, we can find another PF/C for real cheap as a temporary replacement. Just get a guy like Mike Muscala for the vet minimum.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#97 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:Who's this history guy? One thing Portis has impressed me on was his running the court. He got a couple of transition buckets last night. He did get a travelling call after he out-ran the Pistons center one time before he dunked, but most times that doesn't get called. He certainly has the length and strength to play PF, and I think those were the main things missing with our players trying to defend Griffin.


I'm referring to what he's done in Chicago. Chicago fans will tell you his best position is clearly C. His numbers and impact were terrible last year until the Bulls made the switch to having him play C over the 2nd half of last season and he had a mini-breakout. 82games shows a stark difference as well. 5 years ago Portis may have clearly been a PF. Now he's exclusively a C --- like Kenneth Faried.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#98 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:One of the worst things the Wizards could do this offseason is throw a ton of money once again at the C position.

It also appears to be a popular idea around here with the suggestions of keeping both Bryant & Portis.

This despite Cs across the league eating the Wizards front line for lunch this season with Andre Drummond being the latest example.

I know they young & developing but as I mentioned a few days back, the C position is a very crowded position as more PFs like Faried are forced to switch to C to stay relevant. Many rosters are filled with one or two traditional bigs on contracts their teams now regret. The FA market will be flooded with capable names. It doesn't make sense to pour a ton of money here.

I think the Wizards should only keep one of the two. I'd lean Bryant because in time you hope he can get stronger and improve his awareness. He also will likely be cheaper because he isn't making 5-6 3s a game.

Portis brings a scoring element but may be capped as a bench player due to defensive limitations. Does it make sense to use limited resources on a backup C with a muted impact because he's a poor defender?

Spending a ton of money here ensures other needs will go unaddressed.

Good point. Centers are a dime-a-dozen these days. Unless you are considering a center who is a game-changing defender (Gobert, Adams) or a true playmaker on offense (Jokic, Cousins) or someone very good and versatile at both ends (Davis, Embiid, Horford) then you shouldn't pay much at all.

Neither Bryant or Portis fit the above categories. They're both playable because they can rebound and hit 3's, but neither are very good just yet. I said in my original post that Bryant should cost maybe $5M. Maybe we should hold out for even less. And I agree that we don't need both Bryant and Portis because we have more pressing needs at other positions (and we still have Mahinmi as an emergency backup center). The bottom line is that if Portis costs too much, we can find another PF/C for real cheap as a temporary replacement. Just get a guy like Mike Muscala for the vet minimum.


Exactly. Muscala will give you the same functionality but with less scoring and better D so the difference b/w two in impact is minimal. But the difference in cost is likely to be significant because of Portis' PPG.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#99 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:06 pm

More on the centers discussion.

To put things into context, here is a list of available free agent centers and PF/C's this offseason:

Will cost big money (more than MLE):
Demarcus Cousins
Marc Gasol (if he opts out)
Nikola Vucevic
Nikola Mirotic
Julius Randle

Should cost MLE type money:
Brook Lopez
Robin Lopez
Nerlens Noel
Willie Cauley-Stein
Bobby Portis

Should cost $3-8M:
Jahill Okafor
Trey Lyles
Thomas Bryant
Dewayne Dedmon
Noah Vonleh
Kevon Looney
Ivica Zubac
Boban Marjanovic
Enes Kanter
DeAndre Jordan
Ed Davis

Sub $3M:
Tyson Chandler
Kenneth Faried
Christian Wood
Mike Muscala
Kyle O'Quinn
Frank Kaminsky
Marcin Gortat
Taj Gibson
Zaza Pachulia
Tyson Chandler
Greg Monroe
Kosta Koufos
Markieff Morris
Javale McGee
Jordan Bell
Joakim Noah


The following teams will not be looking to spend much money of centers, either because of salary cap issues, or because they've got the position covered:

Philadelphia
Denver
Detroit
Houston
Minnesota
Utah
Phoenix
Portland
OKC
Indiana
San Antonio
Brooklyn
New York
Orlando
Miami
Golden State
Toronto
Boston
Charlotte
Cleveland
Chicago

That leaves only 9 teams who will be in the center market, and some of them are debatable:

Washington
Dallas
Milwaukee
Sacramento
Atlanta
LA Clippers
LA Lakers
New Orleans
Memphis

The bottom line is there is a lot of supply and not much demand. The Wizards should not spend much money at the center position.
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Re: 2019 Offseason Thread 

Post#100 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:One of the worst things the Wizards could do this offseason is throw a ton of money once again at the C position.

It also appears to be a popular idea around here with the suggestions of keeping both Bryant & Portis.

This despite Cs across the league eating the Wizards front line for lunch this season with Andre Drummond being the latest example.

I know they young & developing but as I mentioned a few days back, the C position is a very crowded position as more PFs like Faried are forced to switch to C to stay relevant. Many rosters are filled with one or two traditional bigs on contracts their teams now regret. The FA market will be flooded with capable names. It doesn't make sense to pour a ton of money here.

I think the Wizards should only keep one of the two. I'd lean Bryant because in time you hope he can get stronger and improve his awareness. He also will likely be cheaper because he isn't making 5-6 3s a game.

Portis brings a scoring element but may be capped as a bench player due to defensive limitations. Does it make sense to use limited resources on a backup C with a muted impact because he's a poor defender?

Spending a ton of money here ensures other needs will go unaddressed.

In my observation our frontline is being eaten for lunch BECAUSE of Bryant. He's a lost cause defensively imo.. I've seen enough from him playing against starting bigs. Plays with energy and good finisher in the PnR, but he isn't worth a longterm investment for anything more than a minimum type salary.

Portis isn't great defensively either but he has a clear plus skillset as a screen setter & floor spacing big. His presence unlocks 5-out lineups through which our team can create easier offense. Bigs like Faried are a dime a dozen, but PF/C like Portis who can space the floor and attack closeouts are a worthy investment. I'd offer him something around the Kelly Olynyk contract (4yrs/$40-50M) - given his youth at age 23, he could be a positive or at worst neutral asset on that kind of deal.

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