The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread

[ratul]

If you are giving AA credit for drafting Kris Bryant and not signing him then you have to give Shapiro credit for drafting and not signing;

Tim Lincecum, Desmond Jennings, Adam Warren, Max Muncy, and more recently Nick Madrigal.

And give Shapiro the players he helped develop as the director of player development from 1993-1998:

Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Brian Giles, Jeromy Burnitz, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, Richie Sexson, Sean Casey etc.

Shapiro was the Player Development Director during Cleveland's world series run in 1995 and 1997. Cleveland made the playoffs in 1996 too.

If you are giving credit to AA for being apart of the Dodgers success as VP of Baseball Ops then you need to give Shapiro credit when he was VP of Baseball Ops for Cleveland from 1998-2001:

Cleveland Indians;
1998 - 1st in the division - Lost in the in the ALCS
1999 - 1st in the division - Lost in the in the ALDS
2000 - 2nd in the division - 90 win team - missed the playoffs by 1 game
2001 - 1st in the division - Lost in the in the ALDS

And you need to give credit to AA when he was the AGM for the Jays:
2006: 2nd in the division - missed the playoffs
2007: 3rd in the division - missed the playoffs
2008: 4th in the division - missed the playoffs
2009 - 4th in the division - missed the playoffs

Becomes even worse if you account for Anthopoulos' time in the Expos front office because they were terrible and the team folded.

In Shapiro's 27 years in a baseball front office he has made the playoffs 9 times, making it to 2 World Series.

In Anthopoulos' 16 years in a baseball front office he has made the playoffs 4 times, making it to 1 World Series.

Not to mention Shapiro was the GM and/or President of the Indians when they drafted, signed or acquired;

C: Yan Gomes
1B: Carlos Santana
2B: Jason Kipnis
SS: Francisco Lindor
3B: Jose Ramirez
OF: Michael Brantley
OF: Lonie Chisenhall
OF: Tyler Naguin

Corey Kluber
Carlos Carrasco
Trevor Bauer
Danny Salzar
Josh Tomlin

Cody Allen
Bryan Shaw
Mike Clevinger

Looks like a World Series contending team. Not to mention;

Bradley Zimmer, Shin Soo Choo, Francisco Mejía, Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Victor Martinez, Asdrubal Cabrera, Coco Crisp, Jhonny Peralta etc.

CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Tristian Mackenzie, Drew Pomeranz, Chris Archer etc.

All while operating with a payroll never higher than 90M in Cleveland and his payroll was 20th or lower from 2003 to 2015.

Come on now. Facts needn’t be stretched.

Shapiro ran cleveland as Gm for 15 years. He had 4 winning seasons. Four.

Attendance when he started went from 3.1 million and dropped by 70% during his tenure to 1.3 million. I guess it’s Cleveland’s fault it is not a baseball town as others have opined. Amazing how when your treat players like commodities, fans start to care less.

His draft record has been incredibly poor as documented before.

If you want to claim budget restrictions. Fine, but other teams faced similar issues and getting an epic pass on this doesn’t mean he is good. It just means there might be some mitigating circumstances. That doesn’t indicate talent.

The only reason Shapiro is gm now is because Rogers gave him a long contract otherwise this effer would have been gone a long time ago. It is just desserts for Rogers who knifed double A at the start of 2015. Unfortunately it is bad for us fans.

[ratul]

While we are on the topic, I always felt it was odd how quickly AA left the Jays. Sure, there was potential conflict with Shapiro and other issues that would have made the Alex/Mark partnership complicated.

But, at the end of the day, Alex knew it was the perfect time and scenario to leave.

With the bloated contracts, a depleted farm system and aging vets like Bautista - the long term prospects for the Jays were not good. So he chose to get out while he was on top and set himself up for a new opportunity elsewhere. To Alex’s credit, he played his cards beautifully.

Im suspicious as to when he left the Expos too. Left at the right time for the Expos (team folded a year later) and Jays. And waiting for a great opportunity with the Braves... he is an opportunist.

Um, Alex got pushed out. Shapiro was hired before the start of the 2015 season.

[phillipmike]

While we are on the topic, I always felt it was odd how quickly AA left the Jays. Sure, there was potential conflict with Shapiro and other issues that would have made the Alex/Mark partnership complicated.

But, at the end of the day, Alex knew it was the perfect time and scenario to leave.

With the bloated contracts, a depleted farm system and aging vets like Bautista - the long term prospects for the Jays were not good. So he chose to get out while he was on top and set himself up for a new opportunity elsewhere. To Alex’s credit, he played his cards beautifully.

Im suspicious as to when he left the Expos too. Left at the right time for the Expos (team folded a year later) and Jays. And waiting for a great opportunity with the Braves... he is an opportunist.

Um, Alex got pushed out. Shapiro was hired before the start of the 2015 season.

Nope, on August 31, 2015, an announcement was made that Shapiro will be named Blue Jays Team President effective October 31, 2015.

So NOT before the start of the 2015 season.

https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-name-mark-shapiro-president/c-146398020

He was offered a 4 year deal worth just under 8M to remain the GM of the Jays (with an option of 5th year). Was also given an opt clause after year 1. If that is being pushed out then i wish more people would push me out.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays-after-rejecting-extension/

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

[phillipmike]

Come on now. Facts needn’t be stretched.

Not stretching anything, using your own guidelines. You are giving AA credit for being the Dodgers VP of Baseball Ops, then you need to give Shapiro credit for being the VP of Cleveland's Baseball Ops.

Shapiro ran cleveland as Gm for 15 years. He had 4 winning seasons. Four.

Wrong.

Attendance when he started went from 3.1 million and dropped by 70% during his tenure to 1.3 million. I guess it’s Cleveland’s fault it is not a baseball town as others have opined. Amazing how when your treat players like commodities, fans start to care less.

Rebuild.

His draft record has been incredibly poor as documented before.

Better than AAs.

AA: Syndergaard, Sanchez, Dyson, Barnes, Pompey, Pillar, DeSclafani, Norris, Musgrove, DSJ, Stroman, Borucki, Graveman, Boyd, Jansen, Reid-Foley.

Shapiro: Guthrie, Kouzmanoff, Garko, Sipp, Archer, Tomlin, Wright, Pestano, Chisenhall, Perez, Kipnis, Nuno, Pomperanz, Allen, Lindor, Wendle, Naquin, Frazier, Pannone, Zimmer, Sheffield.

Not to mention Tristian Mackenzie, Bo Bichette, Chavez Young, Nate Pearson, Kevin Smith, Groshans, Kloffenstein, Conine.

And AA's first draft as Braves GM he drafts Carter Stewart and doesnt sign him (surprise surprise, brings it to 4 top pitchers he didnt sign in Beede, Bickeford, Singer and now Stewart) and Stewart's agents file a grievance against him. Solid track record.

If you want to claim budget restrictions. Fine, but other teams faced similar issues and getting an epic pass on this doesn’t mean he is good. It just means there might be some mitigating circumstances. That doesn’t indicate talent.

AA's lowest year end payroll was 75M. Shapiro's highest payroll was 77M.

The only reason Shapiro is gm now is because Rogers gave him a long contract otherwise this effer would have been gone a long time ago. It is just desserts for Rogers who knifed double A at the start of 2015. Unfortunately it is bad for us fans.

Shapiro is owed 4M in 2019 and 4M in 2020. Rogers paid 54M to make Tulo and Martin go away. If Rogers thought so illogically like you do then they would have no problem paying 8M to get rid of Shapiro if your assessment was accurate... which it isnt. Just go become a Braves fan with AA.

[C Court]

1. Double A took the Jays to the ALCS, then helped the Dodgers to the World Series and then the Braves to the playoffs - in CONSECUTIVE years. To suggest he didn't have anything to do with this is just kind of random - the burden of proof is demonstrably on you - otherwise, it's just kind of garbage.

You wrote a lot of crazy stuff, but this is award winning.

The Dodgers building blocks were there long before AA arrived. And even with that, he was only in LA from early 2016 to 2017 and he was NOT the guy running the team and making the decisions. That was Farhan Zaidi, another Canadian, who started the Dodger rebuild in 2014.

If AA gets full credit for taking the Braves to the playoffs with a roster he inherited, then Shapiro gets full credit for taking the Jays to the playoffs in his first season, right?

Garbage. You are picking and choosing which serves you best. Double A has now been in the front office of three winnings teams and general manager twice. While the Jays were fourth last year and the largest attendance drop in the majors.

You can poo poo double AA and big up Shapiro but the only reason the latter is still around is because Rogers gave him a five year contract. Which gives him plenty of time to continue to run the team into the ground.

Trash.

You can’t give Alex credit for the success of the Dodgers or the Braves, because he arrived well after these teams were assembled and built to win. He wasn’t even the GM in LA when he arrived and he didn’t make any significant changes to the roster of the Braves that he inherited.

Talk about pick and choose. You conveniently overlook the stretch of bad years that AA had in Montreal and Toronto (with Ricarddi).

But keep fighting. You’re an army of one.

[Schad]

Have to say, it's nice to see a number of posters who often agree on fairly little come together to tell someone that they're transcendentally wrong.

[ratul]

Im suspicious as to when he left the Expos too. Left at the right time for the Expos (team folded a year later) and Jays. And waiting for a great opportunity with the Braves... he is an opportunist.

Um, Alex got pushed out. Shapiro was hired before the start of the 2015 season.

Nope, on August 31, 2015, an announcement was made that Shapiro will be named Blue Jays Team President effective October 31, 2015.

So NOT before the start of the 2015 season.

https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-name-mark-shapiro-president/c-146398020

He was offered a 4 year deal worth just under 8M to remain the GM of the Jays (with an option of 5th year). Was also given an opt clause after year 1. If that is being pushed out then i wish more people would push me out.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays-after-rejecting-extension/

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

Um, ok the middle of the season. Yes, a new president was hired in the middle of Alex taking the Jays to the ALCS. Alex would also not have had final decision making - it would have been Shapiro. How is that 'not' being pushed out? It was a cherington role and why should double A accept it - when he just took the team he built to the freaking ALCS?!

The money is a separate matter - the question is 'was AA pushed out of his role?' In HR terms, his job role would have changed - so obviously yes.

[ratul]

Come on now. Facts needn’t be stretched.

Not stretching anything, using your own guidelines. You are giving AA credit for being the Dodgers VP of Baseball Ops, then you need to give Shapiro credit for being the VP of Cleveland's Baseball Ops.

Shapiro ran cleveland as Gm for 15 years. He had 4 winning seasons. Four.

Wrong.

Attendance when he started went from 3.1 million and dropped by 70% during his tenure to 1.3 million. I guess it’s Cleveland’s fault it is not a baseball town as others have opined. Amazing how when your treat players like commodities, fans start to care less.

Rebuild.

His draft record has been incredibly poor as documented before.

Better than AAs.

AA: Syndergaard, Sanchez, Dyson, Barnes, Pompey, Pillar, DeSclafani, Norris, Musgrove, DSJ, Stroman, Borucki, Graveman, Boyd, Jansen, Reid-Foley.

Shapiro: Guthrie, Kouzmanoff, Garko, Sipp, Archer, Tomlin, Wright, Pestano, Chisenhall, Perez, Kipnis, Nuno, Pomperanz, Allen, Lindor, Wendle, Naquin, Frazier, Pannone, Zimmer, Sheffield.

Not to mention Tristian Mackenzie, Bo Bichette, Chavez Young, Nate Pearson, Kevin Smith, Groshans, Kloffenstein, Conine.

And AA's first draft as Braves GM he drafts Carter Stewart and doesnt sign him (surprise surprise, brings it to 4 top pitchers he didnt sign in Beede, Bickeford, Singer and now Stewart) and Stewart's agents file a grievance against him. Solid track record.

If you want to claim budget restrictions. Fine, but other teams faced similar issues and getting an epic pass on this doesn’t mean he is good. It just means there might be some mitigating circumstances. That doesn’t indicate talent.

AA's lowest year end payroll was 75M. Shapiro's highest payroll was 77M.

The only reason Shapiro is gm now is because Rogers gave him a long contract otherwise this effer would have been gone a long time ago. It is just desserts for Rogers who knifed double A at the start of 2015. Unfortunately it is bad for us fans.

Shapiro is owed 4M in 2019 and 4M in 2020. Rogers paid 54M to make Tulo and Martin go away. If Rogers thought so illogically like you do then they would have no problem paying 8M to get rid of Shapiro if your assessment was accurate... which it isnt. Just go become a Braves fan with AA.

Mark is that you?

Again, we need not stretch facts here.

Let's just take the records as GM - Shapiro had 4 winning seasons out of 15 in Cleveland. Fact
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

By comparison, double AA had 4 winning seasons out of 6 in Toronto. And 5 out of 7 including Atlanta. Fact number two.
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/tor/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

Shapiro's record as a drafter is garbage - fact.
https://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2016/5/27/11796572/2016-mlb-draft-coverage-how-cleveland-drafted-in-shapiros-years-and

If you think Shapiro is some Billy Beane savant who operates well on a low budget, you are mistaken. Billy Beane has had 13 winning seasons out of 20 as GM. Fact.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/oak/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

I'll cede that Shapiro may have had a low budget in Cleveland but that doesn't mean he is talented - it just suppresses the fact that he isn't.

Rogers was already on the hook for those salaries. They didn't pay anything extra to get rid of those salaries. Again, let's not stretch facts.

Oh yeah, and Shapiro's stink also rubs off on attendance. He has casted his nauseating whiff on our attendance - did the same in Cleveland during his time as GM - but it's a rebuild right? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

[Schad]

Um, ok the middle of the season. Yes, a new president was hired in the middle of Alex taking the Jays to the ALCS. Alex would also not have had final decision making - it would have been Shapiro. How is that 'not' being pushed out? It was a cherington role and why should double A accept it - when he just took the team he built to the freaking ALCS?!

The money is a separate matter - the question is 'was AA pushed out of his role?' In HR terms, his job role would have changed - so obviously yes.

His job role was the same. He had not been president previous; that job was held by Paul Beeston, who had announced nearly a year previous that he was going to retire on Oct 31, 2015, hence Shapiro's join date. Now, it's entirely reasonable that AA didn't want to be overseen by someone who had a past in a field-facing job rather than a businessman, and reasonable if he wanted that job for himself, and it's understandable that he opted to leave. But he was offered a serious raise to continue in the exact same position under an individual occupying a position identical to his predecessor. AA left of his own accord, and I don't think anyone -- AA included -- would argue against that.

[Schad]

Oh yeah, and Shapiro's stink also rubs off on attendance. He has casted his nauseating whiff on our attendance - did the same in Cleveland during his time as GM - but it's a rebuild right? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

Average Jays attendance under Shapiro: 36,713.
Average Jays attendance under Anthopolous: 25,495.

If you're going to choose totally irrelevant metrics, you might want to choose ones that are in any way favourable to your argument.

[ratul]

Oh yeah, and Shapiro's stink also rubs off on attendance. He has casted his nauseating whiff on our attendance - did the same in Cleveland during his time as GM - but it's a rebuild right? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

Average Jays attendance under Shapiro: 36,713.
Average Jays attendance under Anthopolous: 25,495.

If you're going to choose totally irrelevant metrics, you might want to choose ones that are in any way favourable to your argument.

Ok, let's look at facts. Under double A, the Jays attendance went from 12th in AL to 4th. Under Shapiro, the jays went from first (year after double A left) to fifth now

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

Oh yeah, and under shapiro's reign in cleveland, Attendance went from third in AL to consistently last.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

Shapiro's stink is strong - I can't believe you can't smell it.

[ratul]

Um, ok the middle of the season. Yes, a new president was hired in the middle of Alex taking the Jays to the ALCS. Alex would also not have had final decision making - it would have been Shapiro. How is that 'not' being pushed out? It was a cherington role and why should double A accept it - when he just took the team he built to the freaking ALCS?!

The money is a separate matter - the question is 'was AA pushed out of his role?' In HR terms, his job role would have changed - so obviously yes.

His job role was the same. He had not been president previous; that job was held by Paul Beeston, who had announced nearly a year previous that he was going to retire on Oct 31, 2015, hence Shapiro's join date. Now, it's entirely reasonable that AA didn't want to be overseen by someone who had a past in a field-facing job rather than a businessman, and reasonable if he wanted that job for himself, and it's understandable that he opted to leave. But he was offered a serious raise to continue in the exact same position under an individual occupying a position identical to his predecessor. AA left of his own accord, and I don't think anyone -- AA included -- would argue against that.

And, no, not fact-based. Double A disagreed with Shapiro on the direction of the team and would not have had full autonomy on the team. He was pushed out of his GM role. It's pretty obvious. So he left - and once again, double A is the GM of a playoff team. Amazing that double A had the chutzpah to turn down the demotion and bet on himself. Who's winning now?

http://bluejayhunter.com/2017/11/why-he-left-toronto-anthopoulos-wants-us-to-read-between-the-lines.html

[-MetA4-]

Double A disagreed with Shapiro on the direction of the team

How so? Shapiro and Atkins kept his entire core intact and made no significant changes to his "plan" the season after he left. Where did they differ in direction? Would AA have overpaid for David Price? (which would look terrible now on HIS roster of old and declined players), or are you implying that the difference in direction would have been AA extending Bautista and Encarnacion to stupid contracts, which again, would have been terribly bad decisions?

I'm failing to see what this gross disagreement in direction was. Shapiro came in and competed as long as they could with what AA built. The current situation wouldn't be any different under AA because this was the inevitable conclusion for a playoff team that was already the oldest in the league even when he was here, and carried entirely by players who were ALL a year or two away from significant decline. He left because even he understood this, and it was convenient for him to walk out while everyone was proclaiming him the knight in shining armour whilst at the same time absolving himself from having to handle the inevitable blowback of building a roster that was only good for ~2 years of contention.

You seem to be confused with how many directions an old and rapidly declining roster has.

[Schad]

Ok, let's look at facts. Under double A, the Jays attendance went from 12th in AL to 4th. Under Shapiro, the jays went from first (year after double A left) to fifth now

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

Oh yeah, and under shapiro's reign in cleveland, Attendance went from third in AL to consistently last.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

Shapiro's stink is strong - I can't believe you can't smell it.

It's almost as if our attendance is strongly correlated to our record, with a built-in lag time because fans take a few months to get on or off the bandwagon. And it's almost as if building a team with a short window of competitiveness was always going to have a short-lived boom/bust with attendance.

Here's the thing: if you'd been on this board for more than a hot minute, you'd be aware that all of this was debated for years and years. It was one of the principle critiques of AA's choice to eschew a more patient approach in favour of throwing all of the chips in on or one or two year window: it wasn't going to do anything to make the generation of fans lost through our doldrums in the 90s/aughts return on a more permanent basis. We needed a more sustained period of success for that, and AA did not build the team for sustained success.

[Schad]

And, no, not fact-based. Double A disagreed with Shapiro on the direction of the team and would not have had full autonomy on the team. He was pushed out of his GM role. It's pretty obvious. So he left - and once again, double A is the GM of a playoff team. Amazing that double A had the chutzpah to turn down the demotion and bet on himself. Who's winning now?

http://bluejayhunter.com/2017/11/why-he-left-toronto-anthopoulos-wants-us-to-read-between-the-lines.html

Note the source of disagreement there: that Shapiro felt that AA mortgaged the future in order to take a single run at the playoffs. At the same time, though, AA did not have full autonomy before Shapiro, so it's hardly a demotion.

And AA's winning, absolutely. He wouldn't be winning here, for the very reason Shapiro pointed out. He didn't build a team for the long-term, and bolted for sunnier climes. It was unquestionably a very savvy move for his career, but the downside for us is that he left us with a team on the verge of needing a rebuild.

[phillipmike]

Um, ok the middle of the season. Yes, a new president was hired in the middle of Alex taking the Jays to the ALCS. Alex would also not have had final decision making - it would have been Shapiro. How is that 'not' being pushed out? It was a cherington role and why should double A accept it - when he just took the team he built to the freaking ALCS?!

The money is a separate matter - the question is 'was AA pushed out of his role?' In HR terms, his job role would have changed - so obviously yes.

As Schad said Beeston was the President and AA was the GM.

Under Shapiro, Shapiro was the President and AA was the GM. Jays offered AA 4 years, with a raise and a mutual option for a 5th year. The gave AA an opt out clause after year one if he felt in anyway his job changed

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rogers-anthopouloss-job-would-have-been-the-same-under-shapiro/

The chairman of the Toronto Blue Jays says the changeover from Paul Beeston to Mark Shapiro would not have impacted Alex Anthopoulos’s role as general manager. And that Anthopoulos was offered an opt-out clause after the first year of a five-year contract offer to ease concerns about the change.

“We really wanted Alex to lead the Jays into the future and tried very hard to do that, and we were sincere in our efforts and we couldn’t come to something that was of his satisfaction,” said Rogers, who also serves as deputy chairman at Rogers Communications Inc. “First and foremost, we worked extremely hard to make that happen. The second thing, just reading a lot of the press, there was a notion that in his renewal offer, somehow his job had changed. His job had not changed at all. His direct manager will change, but his breadth of scope and responsibility had not changed. We had full confidence in him.”

Then, turning serious, he replied: “There are two things there. One is the premise that Paul Beeston was some sort of shrinking violet, that he wasn’t fully engaged, is for people that know Paul, quite a silly notion. And I think Mark would have been engaged differently and may have had a different approach or focused on slightly different things, like we all do with different people we work with. But I’d say both people are fully engaged presidents of the Jays, so I think that notion is false. Secondly, and the main thing is, Mark Shapiro hasn’t started yet, Mark starts on Monday, so we tried to ease (Anthopoulos’s) mind by, beyond having a contract length for a long period, also giving him an offer that if he wasn’t satisfied within one year, he could exit gracefully and be released from his contract.

[phillipmike]

Mark is that you?

Again, we need not stretch facts here.

Let's just take the records as GM - Shapiro had 4 winning seasons out of 15 in Cleveland. Fact
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

By comparison, double AA had 4 winning seasons out of 6 in Toronto. And 5 out of 7 including Atlanta. Fact number two.
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/tor/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

Shapiro's record as a drafter is garbage - fact.
https://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2016/5/27/11796572/2016-mlb-draft-coverage-how-cleveland-drafted-in-shapiros-years-and

If you think Shapiro is some Billy Beane savant who operates well on a low budget, you are mistaken. Billy Beane has had 13 winning seasons out of 20 as GM. Fact.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/oak/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

I'll cede that Shapiro may have had a low budget in Cleveland but that doesn't mean he is talented - it just suppresses the fact that he isn't.

Rogers was already on the hook for those salaries. They didn't pay anything extra to get rid of those salaries. Again, let's not stretch facts.

Oh yeah, and Shapiro's stink also rubs off on attendance. He has casted his nauseating whiff on our attendance - did the same in Cleveland during his time as GM - but it's a rebuild right? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml

Dodgers attendance went up when AA left. Fact
Blue Jays attendance went down when AA became Jays GM. Fact
Blue Jays attendance went up when AA left. Fact

Attendance means little but i can construe facts to try to prove a poor point too.

It really shouldnt matter what Shapiro did for the Indians years ago regarding the draft because we have 3 Jays drafts to evaluate now his team did a fantastic job in those 3 drafts;

But...

AA Drafted players that produced 68.9 WAR over 6 drafts = 11.48 WAR per Draft (had 12 extra 1st and 2nd round picks in 6 years)
Shapiro Drafted players that produced 147.25 WAR over 14 years = 10.52 WAR per Draft (had 9 extra 1st round picks in 14 years)

If you think Shapiro's drafts were bad then you should think the same of AAs and he had a much bigger advantage with 3 extra 1st round picks in the 2010 draft, 4 extra first round picks in the 2011 draft and 3 extra 1st round picks in the 2012 draft. In those first three drafts with a cumulative WAR of 60.1. When AA didnt have 3-4 extra first round picks per draft his cumulative draft WAR from 2013-2015 was 8.8 WAR.

[Schad]

And again, AA deserves a lot of credit for his pick-hoarding shenanigans. It was very clever (acquiring Miguel Olivo the day before his contract ended to get a draft pick is a particular highlight), and really helped to rebuild our farm system at a pace that wouldn't have been possible if we hadn't. Unfortunately, his later draft shenanigans (including the $1000 senior signs from rounds 6-10 to boost our draft pool) haven't really paid dividends.

[Tanner]

I may not agree with everything Shapiro does, but he's put the team in much better position long term than AA did. AA built a small window, which Shapiro helped extend, but the core players from those 2015-16 years are no longer any good now. Only JD looks like he might be a good MLB player in 2019, and he still has to prove that coming off essentially a year away due to injury.

Alex is a very opportunistic person as mentioned. He left the team a hero rather than staying long enough to become the villain. He knew what he was about to leave behind, and was smart enough to join a team that didn't even need him to be good (Braves).

Shapiro is cleaning up the mess. I think he's a bit rigid in the way he is building the team (clearly wants everyone to be drafted or developed by Toronto which is a very lofty goal) but it if it works out then it will have a much longer expiration date than AA's two month window which was luckily extended beyond that.

[Fairview4Life]

I can't get over writing "double A" instead of just "AA", let alone writing "double AA". Insufferable.