ESPN top 25 under 25 players

[Manolito]

1. Giannis Antetokounpo
2. Joel Embiid
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Ben Simmons
6. Luka Doncic
7. Donovan Mitchell
8. Jayson Tatum
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Devin Booker
11. Kristaps Porzingis
12. Pascal Siakam
13. D'Angelo Russell
14. Lauri Markkanen
15. Clint Capela
16. Jaren Jackson Jr.
17. Jamal Murray
18. DeAndre Ayton
19. John Collins
20. Jusuf Nurkic
T21. Marvin Bagley
T21. Caris LaVert
T21. Kyle Kuzma
24. Lonzo Ball
25. Jaylen Brown

Embiid over Jokic???
Murray ranked 17? Really? Fox, Booker, Siakam, Markkanen are better than him?

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[NuggetsWY]

1. Giannis Antetokounpo
2. Joel Embiid
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Ben Simmons
6. Luka Doncic
7. Donovan Mitchell
8. Jayson Tatum
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Devin Booker
11. Kristaps Porzingis
12. Pascal Siakam
13. D'Angelo Russell
14. Lauri Markkanen
15. Clint Capela
16. Jaren Jackson Jr.
17. Jamal Murray
18. DeAndre Ayton
19. John Collins
20. Jusuf Nurkic
T21. Marvin Bagley
T21. Caris LaVert
T21. Kyle Kuzma
24. Lonzo Ball
25. Jaylen Brown

Embiid over Jokic???
Murray ranked 17? Really? Fox, Booker, Siakam, Markkanen are better than him?

Everyone has their own opinion. This list contains many players I wouldn't even include and some clearly out-of-place choices overall.

[skywalker33]

Can't say I'm surprised, ESPN has such biased opinions, just seems like click-bait to me.

[The Rebel]

I cannot believe that ESPN did not even put Turner or Sabonis in their rankings, they are carrying the Pacers with Oladipo out and yet they do not even get a mention?

[obispo]

can anyone explain what did devin booker accomplished to earn top 10?

[skywalker33]

can anyone explain what did devin booker accomplished to earn top 10?

He's a volume scorer, putting up almost 25ppg .

[Sgt Major]

In garbage team without any responsibility. Also - no Trae Young? Seriously?

[SkillzFromThe6]

1. Giannis Antetokounpo
2. Joel Embiid
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Karl-Anthony Towns
5. Ben Simmons
6. Luka Doncic
7. Donovan Mitchell
8. Jayson Tatum
9. De'Aaron Fox
10. Devin Booker
11. Kristaps Porzingis
12. Pascal Siakam
13. D'Angelo Russell
14. Lauri Markkanen
15. Clint Capela
16. Jaren Jackson Jr.
17. Jamal Murray
18. DeAndre Ayton
19. John Collins
20. Jusuf Nurkic
T21. Marvin Bagley
T21. Caris LaVert
T21. Kyle Kuzma
24. Lonzo Ball
25. Jaylen Brown

Embiid over Jokic???
Murray ranked 17? Really? Fox, Booker, Siakam, Markkanen are better than him?

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Definitely quite difficult to think of a top 25 but Siakam is better than Murray atm.

I'll give the top 25 under 25 a shot:

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Karl-Anthony Towns
4. Joel Embiid
5. Kristaps Porzingis
6. Ben Simmons
7. Luka Doncic
8. Pascal Siakam
9. Lauri Markkanen
10. John Collins
11. Jamal Murray
12. Jayson Tatum
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Devin Booker
15. Clint Capela
16. Jusuf Nurkic
17. DeAndre Ayton
18. Myles Turner
19. D'Angelo Russell
20. Trae Young
21. Zach LaVine
22. Julius Randle
23. Marvin Bagley III
24. Buddy Hield
25. Domantas Sabonis

Honorable mentions (in order): Jerami Grant, Bobby Portis, Aaron Gordon, Justise Winslow, Kyle Kuzma, Jarrett Allen, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram

[Patsfan1081]

In garbage team without any responsibility. Also - no Trae Young? Seriously?

Hield is 26. How do you have Murray over Tatum and Fox, Tatum has better advanced stats in every category, he despite playing a extra season he even has more winshares.

[skywalker33]

In garbage team without any responsibility. Also - no Trae Young? Seriously?

Hield is 26. How do you have Murray over Tatum and Fox, Tatum has better advanced stats in every category, he despite playing a extra season he even has more winshares.

He's from BOS, we always know those players are overrated by their fans, we don't make those kinda mistakes here

[Manolito]

What about this list now?

Is it Embiid better than Jokic? And specially, do you rank Murray still at 17th?

IMHO only Doncic is younger and better than him. He can´t be worse than Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum or Siakam (who is 25) and of course is better than Fox, Booker, Russell, Markkanen, porzingis, 3J....

[NuggetsWY]

What about this list now?

Is it Embiid better than Jokic? And specially, do you rank Murray still at 17th?

IMHO only Doncic is younger and better than him. He can´t be worse than Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum or Siakam (who is 25) and of course is better than Fox, Booker, Russell, Markkanen, porzingis, 3J....

I don't rank players, everyone has their opinion and arguing over it isn't my thing. But Embiid vs Jokic is like comparing Bird vs Magic: they are very different players. Embiid's biggest strike is injuries and not just the big ones. He seems to always have something that'll keep him out of a game or two now and then.

Where do I rank Murray? I rank him as the best PG out of the young guns when considering playing next to Jokic. My biggest complaint against Murray is that he is still inconsistent, but his age gives me hope.

[Coeur]

I’m so high in Murray. Sure he belongs somewhere in the top 10.


I am also still shocked how bad people think Wiggins is. 5 years ago to say Wiggins wouldn’t be too 25 as a 24 year old would have been an out there statement

[The Rebel]

I’m so high in Murray. Sure he belongs somewhere in the top 10.


I am also still shocked how bad people think Wiggins is. 5 years ago to say Wiggins wouldn’t be too 25 as a 24 year old would have been an out there statement

People assumed that Wiggins would get a max deal and actually get better, they bought into him being the next Jordan, the issue is that from all reports he just does not care enough to put in the work to get better. The year after he signed his max deal he stayed stagnant, this year he regressed, he is not as good as his numbers show either. He plays no defense, he does not create for others, and does not rebound. He is literally an inefficient scorer that does nothing else on a max deal. I would have no interest in adding him with his contract to this team for cap space, no way would I or many others give up any kind of assets for him.

[THE J0KER]

One interesting fact about Jokic and Murray. They become just 2nd ever duo after Magic and Jabbar which achieve back to back triple-double and 30+pts game in a playoff.

[total1096]

1. Giannis Antetokounpo
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Definitely quite difficult to think of a top 25 but Siakam is better than Murray atm.

I'll give the top 25 under 25 a shot:

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Karl-Anthony Towns
4. Joel Embiid
5. Kristaps Porzingis
6. Ben Simmons
7. Luka Doncic
8. Pascal Siakam
9. Lauri Markkanen
10. John Collins
11. Jamal Murray
12. Jayson Tatum
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Devin Booker
15. Clint Capela
16. Jusuf Nurkic
17. DeAndre Ayton
18. Myles Turner
19. D'Angelo Russell
20. Trae Young
21. Zach LaVine
22. Julius Randle
23. Marvin Bagley III
24. Buddy Hield
25. Domantas Sabonis

Honorable mentions (in order): Jerami Grant, Bobby Portis, Aaron Gordon, Justise Winslow, Kyle Kuzma, Jarrett Allen, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram

I'd put Mitchell in there somewhere.

[manchambo]

Crazy that Denver also could have Donovan Mitchell if they didn't choose Trey Lyles instead.

[NuggetsWY]

Crazy that Denver also could have Donovan Mitchell if they didn't choose Trey Lyles instead.

Seriously doubt they would have drafted Mitchell based on who was on the team. Anunoby seemed like their most likely pick.

[Coeur]

I’m so high in Murray. Sure he belongs somewhere in the top 10.


I am also still shocked how bad people think Wiggins is. 5 years ago to say Wiggins wouldn’t be too 25 as a 24 year old would have been an out there statement

People assumed that Wiggins would get a max deal and actually get better, they bought into him being the next Jordan, the issue is that from all reports he just does not care enough to put in the work to get better. The year after he signed his max deal he stayed stagnant, this year he regressed, he is not as good as his numbers show either. He plays no defense, he does not create for others, and does not rebound. He is literally an inefficient scorer that does nothing else on a max deal. I would have no interest in adding him with his contract to this team for cap space, no way would I or many others give up any kind of assets for him.

The trade I thought was Barton and Gary Harris for Wiggins and pick #10. People said that Minnesota would do that or do Milsap.


I just look at the pure talent standpoint and think that Wiggins is in a horrible situation and that Denver could not only be a good situation but might be the perfect situation possible to max out Wiggins. Because of Jokic and Murray and this coach and style and really the rest of what they’ll bring back.


So I’m looking at a trade like this as 2 things. A pick for Brandon Clarke I think is like a Draymond to the warriors. He would be an superstar role player playing with this team. Then I look at it as a comparison between the ceiling of Gary Harris vs Wiggins. I get that Gary Harris is super steady and super safe. I just like Craig and Beasley a lot. One more world class scorer and finisher to play off our main 2 right now might be the recipe for a title.




I don’t think the Nugs will make any big move. And that might be the right call. I just like thinking of what 1 more guy might do and how to get him. I think Nugs have a ton of value that they have to atleast think about cashing in.

[The Rebel]

I’m so high in Murray. Sure he belongs somewhere in the top 10.


I am also still shocked how bad people think Wiggins is. 5 years ago to say Wiggins wouldn’t be too 25 as a 24 year old would have been an out there statement

People assumed that Wiggins would get a max deal and actually get better, they bought into him being the next Jordan, the issue is that from all reports he just does not care enough to put in the work to get better. The year after he signed his max deal he stayed stagnant, this year he regressed, he is not as good as his numbers show either. He plays no defense, he does not create for others, and does not rebound. He is literally an inefficient scorer that does nothing else on a max deal. I would have no interest in adding him with his contract to this team for cap space, no way would I or many others give up any kind of assets for him.

The trade I thought was Barton and Gary Harris for Wiggins and pick #10. People said that Minnesota would do that or do Milsap.


I just look at the pure talent standpoint and think that Wiggins is in a horrible situation and that Denver could not only be a good situation but might be the perfect situation possible to max out Wiggins. Because of Jokic and Murray and this coach and style and really the rest of what they’ll bring back.


So I’m looking at a trade like this as 2 things. A pick for Brandon Clarke I think is like a Draymond to the warriors. He would be an superstar role player playing with this team. Then I look at it as a comparison between the ceiling of Gary Harris vs Wiggins. I get that Gary Harris is super steady and super safe. I just like Craig and Beasley a lot. One more world class scorer and finisher to play off our main 2 right now might be the recipe for a title.




I don’t think the Nugs will make any big move. And that might be the right call. I just like thinking of what 1 more guy might do and how to get him. I think Nugs have a ton of value that they have to atleast think about cashing in.

I would not give up anything for Wiggins he is nowhere near worth his deal, and all reports are that he does not want to work to get better. Do you know who was the most physically talented player on the Nuggets during the Melo years? Talent means nothing if their heads are not in it. If they don't care to put in the effort to improve and make a difference on the court than no team wants him. Add in the cap hit and it makes it a terrible deal.


Wiggins is not a world class scorer, he is a below average volume scorer that does nothing else. He is Big dog Robinson, with less rebounding and defense.

Then I look at chemistry on the team, it is obvious that Murray, Harris, and Jokic are all close and hard workers. In fact from all appearances the entire roster is full of hard working guys that may not have the most physical talent, they will maximize the talent they have to be their absolute best through the hard work and good attitude.

Beasley is not a replacement for Harris, Harris is by far the best perimeter defender on the team and in the league. He is absolutely elite. Neither beasley nor Craig can replace him at this point.

So I look at your deal like this. Harris who is clearly better than Wiggins and on a better contract right now, knowing that Wiggins is choosing not to reach his potential and Harris has improved yearly. Then I look at if removing Barton and getting a 10th pick is anywhere close to make up that difference, and I do not see it. Barton is worth a small asset, whether people want to believe or not there are plenty of teams that can use him. A 10th pick is fine, until you look at the fact that we are 1 win away from the Western Conference Finals and have 2 forwards on the bench and 1 in Europe that was have drafted that did not have a chance to do anything this season. That 10th pick will likely get no minutes next year, and will just create a bigger glut so I don't see much value there either. I would not trade Harris in that package or anything other than a very good value player when considering both contract and production right now.

To answer my own question, JR Smith and Nene were arguably the 2 most physically talented players on the Melo teams, even more talented than Melo. JR was too dumb and Nene didn't care enough to work hard to develop into the players they should have been. I would gladly take guys like Harris over those 2 any day of the week, and I especially loved and believed that Nene would get it together one day when he was here.