Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[jredsaz]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

Hard to do with their pick hovering around #7

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[Crives]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

Hard to do with their pick hovering around #7

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2 should be enough, 3 possibly, 4 might require our 2020 1st.

[Crives]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.

Jrue alone is not close in value to 2. At 7 NO is Likely looking at a high value role player like Clarke/Hunter/Reddish. Top 4 is where the star potential is at for a rebuilding team Zion/Morant/RJ/Culver

At 3/4 I think we could get back 7 and Jrue if we add our 2020 1st

[jredsaz]

Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Solid pull. It's what happened to Tyler Johnson. The contract itself could be made unpalatable if the Suns were willing to do something similar. The first years salary can only be as high as the Non Taxpayer MLE ($9.1 mil). The following season can only increase 5%. However, the third year can match the the total amount of space the Suns have available at the time the Suns sign the player. This could create a problem for a team like the Mavs looking for flexibility to build around Luka and Zing. Also the Mavs could be star hunting this offseason. Put probably not. Maxi can play.

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[jredsaz]

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.

Jrue alone is not close in value to 2. At 7 NO is Likely looking at a high value role player like Clarke/Hunter/Reddish. Top 4 is where the star potential is at for a rebuilding team Zion/Morant/RJ/Culver

At 3/4 I think we could get back 7 and Jrue if we add our 2020 1st

Maybe if Griff falls in love with Morant. But it sounds like he and ownership have agreed to compete as opposed to ring chase. That market isnt good and the ownership situation is precarious. She may want a competitive roster in order to make as much money as possible while she decides what to do with the team.

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[dremill24]

Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Kleber’s early bird rights restrict what the Mavs can do with him, not what other teams can offer. This is why the Warriors couldn’t retain Arenas. There are restrictions on how short an offer sheet can be for a RFA (I think any offer sheet they sign must be 3yrs or more), but only the regular Min/Max limitations apply to other teams offering.

My understanding of the early bird rights is that they cannot sign him to a contract more than about $3mil in the 1st year if they’re operating over the cap, but they can sign him to whatever if they use their actual cap space, but obviously that cuts into what they can use on other FAs.

[jredsaz]

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Kleber’s early bird rights restrict what the Mavs can do with him, not what other teams can offer. This is why the Warriors couldn’t retain Arenas. There are restrictions on how short an offer sheet can be for a RFA (I think any offer sheet they sign must be 3yrs or more), but only the regular Min/Max limitations apply to other teams offering.

My understanding of the early bird rights is that they cannot sign him to a contract more than about $3mil in the 1st year if they’re operating over the cap, but they can sign him to whatever if they use their actual cap space, but obviously that cuts into what they can use on other FAs.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#index

#43

Check out my post.

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[Crives]

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.

Jrue alone is not close in value to 2. At 7 NO is Likely looking at a high value role player like Clarke/Hunter/Reddish. Top 4 is where the star potential is at for a rebuilding team Zion/Morant/RJ/Culver

At 3/4 I think we could get back 7 and Jrue if we add our 2020 1st

Maybe if Griff falls in love with Morant. But it sounds like he and ownership have agreed to compete as opposed to ring chase. That market isnt good and the ownership situation is precarious. She may want a competitive roster in order to make as much money as possible while she decides what to do with the team.

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Yes it depends on AD return. Would also be cool for NO if griffin convinced AD to resign.

I thought I saw a Jrue quote saying he was in NO because of AD. Not sure he will be happy staying if AD gets moved.

[AtheJ415]

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.

Jrue alone is not close in value to 2. At 7 NO is Likely looking at a high value role player like Clarke/Hunter/Reddish. Top 4 is where the star potential is at for a rebuilding team Zion/Morant/RJ/Culver

At 3/4 I think we could get back 7 and Jrue if we add our 2020 1st

Our 2020 1st would arguably be the most valuable thing in that offer. We aren't making the playoffs next year, and the draft is expected to be deeper next season.

I would lean Ja over Jrue but the 7th pick is not unvaluable. And personally, Clarke has a ton of upside. Every bit as much as a guy like Barrett imo.

[dremill24]

I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Kleber’s early bird rights restrict what the Mavs can do with him, not what other teams can offer. This is why the Warriors couldn’t retain Arenas. There are restrictions on how short an offer sheet can be for a RFA (I think any offer sheet they sign must be 3yrs or more), but only the regular Min/Max limitations apply to other teams offering.

My understanding of the early bird rights is that they cannot sign him to a contract more than about $3mil in the 1st year if they’re operating over the cap, but they can sign him to whatever if they use their actual cap space, but obviously that cuts into what they can use on other FAs.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#index

#43

Check out my post.

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I see, the Arenas provision combats the early bird limitations.

[Crives]

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.

Jrue alone is not close in value to 2. At 7 NO is Likely looking at a high value role player like Clarke/Hunter/Reddish. Top 4 is where the star potential is at for a rebuilding team Zion/Morant/RJ/Culver

At 3/4 I think we could get back 7 and Jrue if we add our 2020 1st

Our 2020 1st would arguably be the most valuable thing in that offer. We aren't making the playoffs next year, and the draft is expected to be deeper next season.

I would lean Ja over Jrue but the 7th pick is not unvaluable. And personally, Clarke has a ton of upside. Every bit as much as a guy like Barrett imo.

Honestly if we add Jrue, I would lean towards us making the playoffs if we stay healthy. I would also value adding pieces this summer over next as our 2020 1st could give us our final piece. I would much rather move our 2020 1st then get rid of Warren to balance the roster.

To the suns I agree Barret May have similar upside to Clarke in our system with the scorers we already have. But to NO who will be looking for #1 and #2 offensive options, RJ/Culver will be significantly more attractive then Clarke.

[jredsaz]

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Solid pull. It's what happened to Tyler Johnson. The contract itself could be made unpalatable if the Suns were willing to do something similar. The first years salary can only be as high as the Non Taxpayer MLE ($9.1 mil). The following season can only increase 5%. However, the third year can match the the total amount of space the Suns have available at the time the Suns sign the player. This could create a problem for a team like the Mavs looking for flexibility to build around Luka and Zing. Also the Mavs could be star hunting this offseason. Put probably not. Maxi can play.

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Luke Kornet is an interesting option as well. In the same situation as Maxi with similar rpm and skill set. Knicks are definitely star shopping and he is 4 years younger than Kleibber.

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[jredsaz]

Kleber’s early bird rights restrict what the Mavs can do with him, not what other teams can offer. This is why the Warriors couldn’t retain Arenas. There are restrictions on how short an offer sheet can be for a RFA (I think any offer sheet they sign must be 3yrs or more), but only the regular Min/Max limitations apply to other teams offering.

My understanding of the early bird rights is that they cannot sign him to a contract more than about $3mil in the 1st year if they’re operating over the cap, but they can sign him to whatever if they use their actual cap space, but obviously that cuts into what they can use on other FAs.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#index

#43

Check out my post.

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I see, the Arenas provision combats the early bird limitations.

Super interesting right?! Its the Tyler Johnson deal.

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[Crives]

I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Solid pull. It's what happened to Tyler Johnson. The contract itself could be made unpalatable if the Suns were willing to do something similar. The first years salary can only be as high as the Non Taxpayer MLE ($9.1 mil). The following season can only increase 5%. However, the third year can match the the total amount of space the Suns have available at the time the Suns sign the player. This could create a problem for a team like the Mavs looking for flexibility to build around Luka and Zing. Also the Mavs could be star hunting this offseason. Put probably not. Maxi can play.

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Luke Kornet is an interesting option as well. In the same situation as Maxi with similar rpm and skill set. Knicks are definitely star shopping and he is 4 years younger than Kleibber.

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There was also a quote from Cuban recently that Mavs want to bring back Dwight as a priority, possibly freeing up Kleber depending on their FA plans.

[dremill24]

I’m into the idea of adding some ‘dog’ to the roster. Sign Joakim Noah to back up Ayton. Try and convince Pat Beverley to man the 1 or try to snag Marcus Smart (depending on what goes on with Kyrie/Rozier) in a trade...or both! These guys could teach the kids a thing or two about intensity and effort.

[sunsfever68]

Kleber at 8M a year would be great he'd be a very solid 4. Jrue Holiday for the 6th or 7th pick is fair value+TJ Warren+Okobo.

Holiday
Booker
Bridges
Kleber
Ayton

Johnson
Melton
Oubre
Bender
Holmes

Solid team

[lilfishi22]

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#index

#43

Check out my post.

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I see, the Arenas provision combats the early bird limitations.

Super interesting right?! Its the Tyler Johnson deal.

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It's exactly the Tyler Johnson deal which is interesting. I didn't know why (or how) his contract was structured that way until now

[Crives]

I’m into the idea of adding some ‘dog’ to the roster. Sign Joakim Noah to back up Ayton. Try and convince Pat Beverley to man the 1 or try to snag Marcus Smart (depending on what goes on with Kyrie/Rozier) in a trade...or both! These guys could teach the kids a thing or two about intensity and effort.

Be prepared for skinny ‘dog’

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[lilfishi22]

I’m into the idea of adding some ‘dog’ to the roster. Sign Joakim Noah to back up Ayton. Try and convince Pat Beverley to man the 1 or try to snag Marcus Smart (depending on what goes on with Kyrie/Rozier) in a trade...or both! These guys could teach the kids a thing or two about intensity and effort.

Be prepared for skinny ‘dog’

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Is he talking about his next team/destination lol?

[Crives]

I’m into the idea of adding some ‘dog’ to the roster. Sign Joakim Noah to back up Ayton. Try and convince Pat Beverley to man the 1 or try to snag Marcus Smart (depending on what goes on with Kyrie/Rozier) in a trade...or both! These guys could teach the kids a thing or two about intensity and effort.

Be prepared for skinny ‘dog’

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Is he talking about his next team/destination lol?

I think he’s trying to be a positive leader for the suns, but who knows.