ImageImageImage

BOOM SMITH MARKET

Moderator: jbk1234

What offers seems like the Cavs end sum from Smiths grandfathered deal in a trade

Future lottery protected first,2019 high 2nd, 1 badly injured fringe starter,1 rotation level vet both w/ 2020 expiring's
1
11%
2019 late first and a rotation player in his prime on a 3+ yr deal
0
No votes
2019 lottery pick,& end of prime overpaid vet under contract w/ player option 2022
2
22%
Rookie scale project player of interest ,mid 2nd & 2 rotation level vets w/ 2021 expiring's
0
No votes
Multiple 2019 2nds and multiple past their prime players w/ 2020 team options or expiring's
0
No votes
2019 pick 15-20 range ,starter wage but 2nd unit level player under contract 3+ yrs + 2020 expiring fillers
3
33%
2019 high 2nd,1 under 25 player who has under performed needs new team/2020 expiring fillers
0
No votes
Something more
1
11%
Something less
1
11%
other
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9

Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#1 » by Stillwater » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:11 pm

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253400/Cavaliers-Already-Receiving-Trade-Interest-On-JR-Smiths-Contract
Was never sure just how much interest his contract would garner, but after finding out he is the only player this season who could offer another team that much savings I'm curious what people think the Cavs will get in return.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#2 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:04 pm

Lottery pick :o
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#3 » by Stillwater » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:41 pm

King Ken wrote:Lottery pick :o

Yeah it's a stretch but if the Cavs are willing to take back big $ for 2-3 yrs of a player that won't play at all...they would have to get a lottery pick to do it.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#4 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:43 pm

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:Lottery pick :o

Yeah it's a stretch but if the Cavs are willing to take back big $ for 2-3 yrs of a player that won't play at all...they would have to get a lottery pick to do it.

Who's that player? Right now, the only players on the market with crappy 2-3 yr deals are Gallo, Wiggins and Heyward and all three are still somewhat productive or in Gallo case, productive. The bad negative production contracts will all come to an end next year.

No team in the lottery that has that type of contract and willing to move it for a lottery pick.
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#5 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:53 pm

20-30 1st/bad expiring contract or a player like Gordon Heyward or Wiggins is as good as I can see.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#6 » by Stillwater » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:05 pm

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:Lottery pick :o

Yeah it's a stretch but if the Cavs are willing to take back big $ for 2-3 yrs of a player that won't play at all...they would have to get a lottery pick to do it.

Who's that player? Right now, the only players on the market with crappy 2-3 yr deals are Gallo, Wiggins and Heyward and all three are still somewhat productive or in Gallo case, productive. The bad negative production contracts will all come to an end next year.

No team in the lottery that has that type of contract and willing to move it for a lottery pick.

Right it's a longshot...and 1 of 10 poll options available.
My perspective is what it would take for the Cavs to eat that kind of contract.
The scenario I was thinking of there was James Johnson as Miami could definitely use the savings and could also swap Johnson for Waiters deal instead and Miami would probably still pull the trigger with the pick being still at 13 in a weak role player class.
Or CLE could trade Smith and Delly and take back both bad contracts etc.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#7 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Yeah it's a stretch but if the Cavs are willing to take back big $ for 2-3 yrs of a player that won't play at all...they would have to get a lottery pick to do it.

Who's that player? Right now, the only players on the market with crappy 2-3 yr deals are Gallo, Wiggins and Heyward and all three are still somewhat productive or in Gallo case, productive. The bad negative production contracts will all come to an end next year.

No team in the lottery that has that type of contract and willing to move it for a lottery pick.

Right it's a longshot...and 1 of 10 poll options available.
My perspective is what it would take for the Cavs to eat that kind of contract.
The scenario I was thinking of there was James Johnson as Miami could definitely use the savings and could also swap Johnson for Waiters deal instead and Miami would probably still pull the trigger with the pick being still at 13 in a weak role player class.
Or CLE could trade Smith and Delly and take back both bad contracts etc.

Zero chance Pat Riley does that deal. Miami values all of their 1st rounders unless they feel they are getting a significant player back. You would need two J.R. Smith contracts to make Miami freely give that up. In that case, you would have the best contracts in sports. Anyone that wants to be player in FA would hit you up.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#8 » by Stillwater » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:55 pm

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:Who's that player? Right now, the only players on the market with crappy 2-3 yr deals are Gallo, Wiggins and Heyward and all three are still somewhat productive or in Gallo case, productive. The bad negative production contracts will all come to an end next year.

No team in the lottery that has that type of contract and willing to move it for a lottery pick.

Right it's a longshot...and 1 of 10 poll options available.
My perspective is what it would take for the Cavs to eat that kind of contract.
The scenario I was thinking of there was James Johnson as Miami could definitely use the savings and could also swap Johnson for Waiters deal instead and Miami would probably still pull the trigger with the pick being still at 13 in a weak role player class.
Or CLE could trade Smith and Delly and take back both bad contracts etc.

Zero chance Pat Riley does that deal. Miami values all of their 1st rounders unless they feel they are getting a significant player back. You would need two J.R. Smith contracts to make Miami freely give that up. In that case, you would have the best contracts in sports. Anyone that wants to be player in FA would hit you up.

I think you are wrong regarding Miami giving up a late lottery pick in this draft for being able to dump that much salary so they can add somebody to contribute at a higher level in FA and get back into the playoffs. I am pretty sure they feel they have a window of opportunity now. One thing is for sure Riley has no use for young players 2 yrs away from 2 years away
I still think this option is the biggest longshot, but is not at all unreasonable given the lack of 5 star talent in the draft and Miami's salary situation unless Whiteside and Dragic opt out
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#9 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:32 pm

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Right it's a longshot...and 1 of 10 poll options available.
My perspective is what it would take for the Cavs to eat that kind of contract.
The scenario I was thinking of there was James Johnson as Miami could definitely use the savings and could also swap Johnson for Waiters deal instead and Miami would probably still pull the trigger with the pick being still at 13 in a weak role player class.
Or CLE could trade Smith and Delly and take back both bad contracts etc.

Zero chance Pat Riley does that deal. Miami values all of their 1st rounders unless they feel they are getting a significant player back. You would need two J.R. Smith contracts to make Miami freely give that up. In that case, you would have the best contracts in sports. Anyone that wants to be player in FA would hit you up.

I think you are wrong regarding Miami giving up a late lottery pick in this draft for being able to dump that much salary so they can add somebody to contribute at a higher level in FA and get back into the playoffs. I am pretty sure they feel they have a window of opportunity now. One thing is for sure Riley has no use for young players 2 yrs away from 2 years away
I still think this option is the biggest longshot, but is not at all unreasonable given the lack of 5 star talent in the draft and Miami's salary situation unless Whiteside and Dragic opt out

Miami currently has -31 million in expected cap space. For them to be a player in FA, you would need to cover 60 million dollars. Which you can't do. Which is why I said, if you had two J.R. Smith's, you would be in an elite position.

Once again, zero chance. Maybe even a negative chance of happening.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 pm

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:Zero chance Pat Riley does that deal. Miami values all of their 1st rounders unless they feel they are getting a significant player back. You would need two J.R. Smith contracts to make Miami freely give that up. In that case, you would have the best contracts in sports. Anyone that wants to be player in FA would hit you up.

I think you are wrong regarding Miami giving up a late lottery pick in this draft for being able to dump that much salary so they can add somebody to contribute at a higher level in FA and get back into the playoffs. I am pretty sure they feel they have a window of opportunity now. One thing is for sure Riley has no use for young players 2 yrs away from 2 years away
I still think this option is the biggest longshot, but is not at all unreasonable given the lack of 5 star talent in the draft and Miami's salary situation unless Whiteside and Dragic opt out

Miami currently has -31 million in expected cap space. For them to be a player in FA, you would need to cover 60 million dollars. Which you can't do. Which is why I said, if you had two J.R. Smith's, you would be in an elite position.

Once again, zero chance. Maybe even a negative chance of happening.

The priority for teams like Miami is to get win now players, they just barely avoided the lux tax when they waived McGruder and he was claimed by LAC. Seems to me the mindset is to get as much wiggle room as possible to bring in different players, not only to save $ to get upgrades but because Waiters and to some extent Johnson are deadweight going forward.
I think you are severely overvaluing that pick.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 7,829
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#11 » by King Ken » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:51 pm

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I think you are wrong regarding Miami giving up a late lottery pick in this draft for being able to dump that much salary so they can add somebody to contribute at a higher level in FA and get back into the playoffs. I am pretty sure they feel they have a window of opportunity now. One thing is for sure Riley has no use for young players 2 yrs away from 2 years away
I still think this option is the biggest longshot, but is not at all unreasonable given the lack of 5 star talent in the draft and Miami's salary situation unless Whiteside and Dragic opt out

Miami currently has -31 million in expected cap space. For them to be a player in FA, you would need to cover 60 million dollars. Which you can't do. Which is why I said, if you had two J.R. Smith's, you would be in an elite position.

Once again, zero chance. Maybe even a negative chance of happening.

The priority for teams like Miami is to get win now players, they just barely avoided the lux tax when they waived McGruder and he was claimed by LAC. Seems to me the mindset is to get as much wiggle room as possible to bring in different players, not only to save $ to get upgrades but because Waiters and to some extent Johnson are deadweight going forward.
I think you are severely overvaluing that pick.

:lol:
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#12 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:08 am

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:Miami currently has -31 million in expected cap space. For them to be a player in FA, you would need to cover 60 million dollars. Which you can't do. Which is why I said, if you had two J.R. Smith's, you would be in an elite position.

Once again, zero chance. Maybe even a negative chance of happening.

The priority for teams like Miami is to get win now players, they just barely avoided the lux tax when they waived McGruder and he was claimed by LAC. Seems to me the mindset is to get as much wiggle room as possible to bring in different players, not only to save $ to get upgrades but because Waiters and to some extent Johnson are deadweight going forward.
I think you are severely overvaluing that pick.

:lol:

nice... I think overall the most common but least desirable scenarios are CLE getting offered option 7 : 2019 high 2nd( or late first),1 under 25 player who has under performed needs new team/2020 expiring fillers
But I also think there are plenty of teams that will have interest in dumping salary and could easily justify giving up a higher first add the fact teams in tax trouble don't want to add guaranteed contracts from the first etc. Given Smiths grandfathered deal is the only 1 with that much savings this summer , overall I think it will come down to if somebody wants saving enough to overpay a little. If not then Cavs just write it off,waive him and move on.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,150
And1: 20,617
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#13 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:11 am

King Ken wrote:20-30 1st/bad expiring contract or a player like Gordon Heyward or Wiggins is as good as I can see.
I mean there's a considerable difference between those two players and what you'd have to give me to take them.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,150
And1: 20,617
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:56 pm

I'd be perfectly fine cutting JR and having some room to maneuver below the tax line if the offers underwhelm tbh. It's kind of difficult to discern now because the draft order isn't known. Add to that the reality that every team rates drafts and players differently, and you don't know where teams feel like the difference makers are already off the board. The Cavs need a team that really wants to dump a contract before F.A. and that isn't impressed with who is left on the board.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#15 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I'd be perfectly fine cutting JR and having some room to maneuver below the tax line if the offers underwhelm tbh. It's kind of difficult to discern now because the draft order isn't known. Add to that the reality that every team rates drafts and players differently, and you don't know where teams feel like the difference makers are already off the board. The Cavs need a team that really wants to dump a contract before F.A. and that isn't impressed with who is left on the board.

Yep,pretty much sums it up.
I would add that although there has apparently been some historical interest in trading for Hayward,I'm not sure how exactly I would feel about Altman dealing with Ainge at this point and also not sold that would be a great move for this roster.
I do think the odds are greater they will trade Smith & get another mid-late 1st or early 2nd /project young player as assets attached to a bad deal, than just cut him before 7-1-19, like you said if the options are underwhelming, no point in taking on salary.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,937
And1: 1,550
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#16 » by JonFromVA » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:18 pm

Stillwater wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253400/Cavaliers-Already-Receiving-Trade-Interest-On-JR-Smiths-Contract
Was never sure just how much interest his contract would garner, but after finding out he is the only player this season who could offer another team that much savings I'm curious what people think the Cavs will get in return.


I think this is our starting point, or basically what we could get from the Nyets for helping them get rid of Allen Crabbe:

"2019 pick 15-20 range ,starter wage but 2nd unit level player under contract 3+ yrs + 2020 expiring fillers"

We could do better depending who gets desperate to free up money to make a move, but Brooklyn is pretty reasonable considering they've got the 17th pick in this draft.

Fedor wrote an article speculating on some of the possibilities:

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/04/f12d4c81df4857/cleveland-cavaliers-continue-to-receive-calls-on-jr-smith-exploring-10-teams-that-are-best-fit-for-a-deal.html

He should have dug some more in to the state of the teams that could be making a free-agent play, though. Brooklyn could be one of them but teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Clippers, Sixers, maybe more depending how the playoffs go.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,150
And1: 20,617
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#17 » by jbk1234 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:05 pm

I'm growing more and more concerned about trading JR instead of just cutting him. We could get stuck pretty far into the tax depending on where our pick lands and I'd really like to break the repeater cycle next season.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,403
And1: 2,416
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#18 » by Stillwater » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:25 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I'm growing more and more concerned about trading JR instead of just cutting him. We could get stuck pretty far into the tax depending on where our pick lands and I'd really like to break the repeater cycle next season.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Yeah I'm starting to get the feeling they may be looking to package him with another player... with on court value as incentive instead of just the limited market for Smiths salary savings. If they are going to take back large $ to get a draft asset or two
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,937
And1: 1,550
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#19 » by JonFromVA » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:20 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm growing more and more concerned about trading JR instead of just cutting him. We could get stuck pretty far into the tax depending on where our pick lands and I'd really like to break the repeater cycle next season.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Yeah I'm starting to get the feeling they may be looking to package him with another player... with on court value as incentive instead of just the limited market for Smiths salary savings. If they are going to take back large $ to get a draft asset or two


Good point, our #1 pick's are going to cost us something like $6M to $10M, and we're already up against the luxury tax; but we do have until the end of next season to get back under the luxury tax, so, there's a lot of ways this could play out:

1) We can trade JR for less money than his salary;
2) We can include cash in a trade to offset salary;
3) We can make a trade later in the season where we move an expiring for a less expensive but bad contract;
4) We can trade an expensive positive asset like Kevin or Tristan for a cheaper positive asset;
5) We can buy a player out or stretch waive a player;
6) Or ... we can just go over the cap and not reset the luxury tax this year.

The key is someone had better make it worth our while to deal JR ... we don't need to mess up our cap situation just to snag another 26th pick in the draft.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,150
And1: 20,617
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: BOOM SMITH MARKET 

Post#20 » by jbk1234 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:42 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm growing more and more concerned about trading JR instead of just cutting him. We could get stuck pretty far into the tax depending on where our pick lands and I'd really like to break the repeater cycle next season.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Yeah I'm starting to get the feeling they may be looking to package him with another player... with on court value as incentive instead of just the limited market for Smiths salary savings. If they are going to take back large $ to get a draft asset or two


Good point, our #1 pick's are going to cost us something like $6M to $10M, and we're already up against the luxury tax; but we do have until the end of next season to get back under the luxury tax, so, there's a lot of ways this could play out:

1) We can trade JR for less money than his salary;
2) We can include cash in a trade to offset salary;
3) We can make a trade later in the season where we move an expiring for a less expensive but bad contract;
4) We can trade an expensive positive asset like Kevin or Tristan for a cheaper positive asset;
5) We can buy a player out or stretch waive a player;
6) Or ... we can just go over the cap and not reset the luxury tax this year.

The key is someone had better make it worth our while to deal JR ... we don't need to mess up our cap situation just to snag another 26th pick in the draft.


Yeah, it's needs to be a good pick so we can justify attaching that first to another player if need be to get under the tax. If not, just cut JR.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers