Justin Patton got waived. He's available!

[Killboard]

I wish we saw more volume from Saric shooting 3s. He attempted something like 3.5 a game since January. That's like 5 or 6 points a game. How exactly is Patton supposed to prove anything in this league not really playing yet? From what I've heard, the only thing he didn't prove in the d league was rebounding. What he needs is a chance to play. Imagine if he came back and played well enough to hold a roster spot and Jimmy also left the 6ers in FA. We could look back on the trade with smiles.

Saric attempted 7.2 3's per100 on 39.3 3pt% since Ryan took over.
To put that on context is close to Kevin Huerter (7.8, 38.5%), Doug McDermott (7.2, 40.8%) or Bojan Bogdanovic (7.2 42.5%). That's a really good list to be compared in the 3pt shooting department.

Regarding Patton, Im not against take a flyer on him. But it should be considered to be a two way contract or a veteran min, and pretty much a replacement for Dieng. If he can shoot the 3 or be a better player than Roco at the 4, then maybe he could play with KAT, but is hard to imagine.

I believe that it depends on talent of bigmen. If a bigman is a talented player he can fit as second bigman in lineup. If both are talented then I don't see any issue at all playing them together at least for some short periods of time.

We can see BOS playing Baynes and Horford, UTA going big with Favors and Gobert, DET with Griffin and Drummond. SAS played LMA with Gasol.

When you check bkref for those name you can see an estimation of what % of time they played in a certain position:

Griffin 93% PF 7%C

Horford 8% PF 92% C

Favors 42% PF 58% C (even when he starts at C he plays more with the bench than along Gobert)

LMA (last season while Gasol was there) 38%PF 62%C. This season is 5% PF 95% C.

I get that when you have 2 talented big man, who are 2 of the best players in the rotation, you try to fit around them. But if they arent one the them, I would hardly try to fit a 2nd big man instead of try to put a lenghty wing at 4 like Roco, who can shoot the 3 and contain guards off the dribble.

[Jedzz]

I wish we saw more volume from Saric shooting 3s. He attempted something like 3.5 a game since January. That's like 5 or 6 points a game. How exactly is Patton supposed to prove anything in this league not really playing yet? From what I've heard, the only thing he didn't prove in the d league was rebounding. What he needs is a chance to play. Imagine if he came back and played well enough to hold a roster spot and Jimmy also left the 6ers in FA. We could look back on the trade with smiles.

Saric attempted 7.2 3's per100 on 39.3 3pt% since Ryan took over.
To put that on context is close to Kevin Huerter (7.8, 38.5%), Doug McDermott (7.2, 40.8%) or Bojan Bogdanovic (7.2 42.5%). That's a really good list to be compared in the 3pt shooting department.

Regarding Patton, Im not against take a flyer on him. But it should be considered to be a two way contract or a veteran min, and pretty much a replacement for Dieng. If he can shoot the 3 or be a better player than Roco at the 4, then maybe he could play with KAT, but is hard to imagine.

I'm not sure why you think Patton needs to compete with RoCo at the 4 when I'm guessing he can give us what Saric did at the 4 or simply back Saric up. They can't afford Taj with Towns hit to the Cap. In my opinion RoCO is a SF here first, as he's in the top10 or 15 in the league at SF, and sure he could fill in at the 4 if we need it. We shouldn't need it. Patton could be useful in that he could be a backup PF/C,and could also play alongside Towns or Dieng. A minor short term deal is exactly what some of us have been guessing. Forget "two way". Get him back on the roster and see if he can help. Don't bring him back to go play in Iowa again. I see no point in Iowa for him.

I wish for once we could discuss things apples to apples. I don't care about his per 100 stats. He didn't average even 4 attempts per game and he started plenty since January. There is no reason to discuss 7plus attempts. This isn't a rookie getting 10 minutes a game where you need to project what he could do with more time. He got more time and starts and there is what he did with it on this team. Maybe he's more involved on a different team that doesn't need to force so much through their Center. Wolves are what they are for the next 5 years now. Could he still do better next year starting all year? Sure he might. Or he might be the same.

There is also no reason to compare Saric with rookie Kevin Huerter or Doug McDermott.

[minimus]

I get that when you have 2 talented big man, who are 2 of the best players in the rotation, you try to fit around them. But if they arent one the them, I would hardly try to fit a 2nd big man instead of try to put a lenghty wing at 4 like Roco, who can shoot the 3 and contain guards off the dribble.

I agree. However, I really think that it would be much easier in reality. Let say that we sign Patton to 3yrs multiyear deal similar to
Isaiah Hartenstein contract.

Isaiah Hartenstein signed a 3 year / $3,919,177 contract with the Houston Rockets, including $838,464 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $1,306,392.

If he stays healthy he will easily outperform this contract and there won't be high expectations for playing time etc. He fits right around KAT/Saric/KBD/Dieng group as backup bigman and situational starter based on matchup.

[Killboard]

I wish we saw more volume from Saric shooting 3s. He attempted something like 3.5 a game since January. That's like 5 or 6 points a game. How exactly is Patton supposed to prove anything in this league not really playing yet? From what I've heard, the only thing he didn't prove in the d league was rebounding. What he needs is a chance to play. Imagine if he came back and played well enough to hold a roster spot and Jimmy also left the 6ers in FA. We could look back on the trade with smiles.

Saric attempted 7.2 3's per100 on 39.3 3pt% since Ryan took over.
To put that on context is close to Kevin Huerter (7.8, 38.5%), Doug McDermott (7.2, 40.8%) or Bojan Bogdanovic (7.2 42.5%). That's a really good list to be compared in the 3pt shooting department.

Regarding Patton, Im not against take a flyer on him. But it should be considered to be a two way contract or a veteran min, and pretty much a replacement for Dieng. If he can shoot the 3 or be a better player than Roco at the 4, then maybe he could play with KAT, but is hard to imagine.

I'm not sure why you think Patton needs to compete with RoCo at the 4 when I'm guessing he can give us what Saric did at the 4 or simply back Saric up. They can't afford Taj with Towns hit to the Cap. In my opinion RoCO is a SF here first, as he's in the top10 or 15 in the league at SF, and sure he could fill in at the 4 if we need it. We shouldn't need it. Patton could be useful in that he could be a backup PF/C,and could also play alongside Towns or Dieng. A minor short term deal is exactly what some of us have been guessing. Forget "two way". Get him back on the roster and see if he can help. Don't bring him back to go play in Iowa again. I see no point in Iowa for him.

I wish for once we could discuss things apples to apples. I don't care about his per 100 stats. He didn't average even 4 attempts per game and he started plenty since January. There is no reason to discuss 7plus attempts. This isn't a rookie getting 10 minutes a game where you need to project what he could do with more time. He got more time and starts and there is what he did with it on this team. Maybe he's more involved on a different team that doesn't need to force so much through their Center. Wolves are what they are for the next 5 years now. Could he still do better next year starting all year? Sure he might. Or he might be the same.

There is also no reason to compare Saric with rookie Kevin Huerter or Doug McDermott.

The reason is volume and 3pt shooting. And yes, per 100 is important because it's indicative of how many 3's he is tooking when he actually is on the floor. Doing it per 100 isn't to show he can shot more if plays more, is to compare him to other players willingness to shoot without caring for how much the others actually play. Its to even out the sample.

As for the two way on Patton , he must proof he is healthy before I sign him for guaranteed multi year money. As for Roco at the 4: if we sign or draft a wing, and Okogie, KBD and Reynolds stick to the rotation, we will have plenty of wing minutes to distribute. That's when you can play Roco at the 4, who can stretch the floor and flourish as weak side defender.

[Jedzz]

The reason is volume and 3pt shooting. And yes, per 100 is important because it's indicative of how many 3's he is tooking when he actually is on the floor. Doing it per 100 isn't to show he can shot more if plays more, is to compare him to other players willingness to shoot without caring for how much the others actually play. Its to even out the sample.

As for the two way on Patton , he must proof he is healthy before I sign him for guaranteed multi year money. As for Roco at the 4: if we sign or draft a wing, and Okogie, KBD and Reynolds stick to the rotation, we will have plenty of wing minutes to distribute. That's when you can play Roco at the 4, who can stretch the floor and flourish as weak side defender.

I think you and I will have to just agree to disagree on using per 100 and volume talk about Saric. I'll believe he can get higher volume here when I see it. I do not see it yet and I do not see anyone here giving him more. I'm not sure I can remember seeing Towns or Wiggins ever pass to him. Maybe not Teague either.

As for Patton, everyone here has been talking about minor money for him on a prove it deal. Look at Reynolds deal. Patton's draft history should make him available for more but his injury problems snaked him. It's time for him to work on a prove it deal now and try to earn minutes from bench. The possible upside of him over playing such a contract would be huge for Wolves these next two seasons. I would hope they would atleast try to get him to come back.

Here are my two things on RoCo. He's now a knee risk. This means I wouldn't use him to fill in gaps everywhere anymore. I would use him where he is most effective and not over use him or ask him to get physical with those larger than him. Secondly, I don't think we have the luxury of using just anyone at the 4. We have a center who is unique and who maybe needs help at times from a real big.

[Killboard]

The reason is volume and 3pt shooting. And yes, per 100 is important because it's indicative of how many 3's he is tooking when he actually is on the floor. Doing it per 100 isn't to show he can shot more if plays more, is to compare him to other players willingness to shoot without caring for how much the others actually play. Its to even out the sample.

As for the two way on Patton , he must proof he is healthy before I sign him for guaranteed multi year money. As for Roco at the 4: if we sign or draft a wing, and Okogie, KBD and Reynolds stick to the rotation, we will have plenty of wing minutes to distribute. That's when you can play Roco at the 4, who can stretch the floor and flourish as weak side defender.

I think you and I will have to just agree to disagree on using per 100 and volume talk about Saric. I'll believe he can get higher volume here when I see it. I do not see it yet and I do not see anyone here giving him more. I'm not sure I can remember seeing Towns or Wiggins ever pass to him. Maybe not Teague either.

You can disagree with my opinion, that's OK. But Saric volume and 3pt% is a fact. If every average 3pt shooter on this roster had Saric volume per 100 this team shouldn't be a bottom dweller in the 3pt rankings like we usually are.

[Jedzz]

[

I think you and I will have to just agree to disagree on using per 100 and volume talk about Saric. I'll believe he can get higher volume here when I see it. I do not see it yet and I do not see anyone here giving him more. I'm not sure I can remember seeing Towns or Wiggins ever pass to him. Maybe not Teague either.

You can disagree with my opinion, that's OK. But Saric volume and 3pt% is a fact. If every average 3pt shooter on this roster had Saric volume per 100 this team shouldn't be a bottom dweller in the 3pt rankings like we usually are.

If games were played in your stat musings and not on the court maybe the Timberwolvs would win more, because not every stat is exactly a reflection of the games being played. The games are what matter. He doesn't get extra points for a per 100 stat, the Wolves don't get extra Ws for his per 100 stat. Some of these stats are not useful to every point. Such as the one you are trying to use in this instance. He simply does not get 100 possessions a game so excuse me for not giving a hoot.

You can disagree with the attempts stat I guessed about. But if you are going to make me look it up for facts, then I will. Hold on. It's not exactly 3.5 attempts since January as I thought. It's a whopping 3.7 attempts per game. An average of 3.7 three point attempts per game from January to the April 10th final game. 3.7 attempts a game at .393 = 1.5 makes = 4.5 pts from 3 per game. I must have felt gracious the other day when I said his shot's from three might be worth 5 or 6 pts a gane. 45 games 27 starts, 1,048 minutes, 202.5 points from his 3s since January. Working backward to make sure, 202.5 pts divided 45 games = him averaging 4.5 pts from 3 per game since January. Game breaking, right? Now last time I checked 4.5 attempts does not equal 7.2 attempts. Disagree all you want. We aren't going to agree on this. That's why 7.2 attempts at .393 doesn't accurately reflect his games from January to now. I chose January to now to focus on because it should have benefitted him as he played a lot more during that span. I am trying to be fair here.

Also, last time I checked my opinion on Volume shooters it wasn't a favorable trait to me. I frown on players needing high volume to amount to anything. I didn't care for Love's volume needs, I don't care for Wiggins volume needs. In Saric's case I said I wish we could have seen some of that Volume shooting you were presenting with your per 100 in order for him to add more pts per game for this offense since he was starting. I would gladly take his 39.3 % over some others here. We didn't see it often because with Towns and Wiggins getting theirs and other sub .400 shooters around here thinking they were just as good, nobody seemed interested in feeding him more. Did you notice that too? Because I did and that's why it was my point and these factual stats since January back up that opinion of mine.

Facts/Opinions. We all have them. But I think it's probably helpful if you choose the right facts for the situation.

So, once again as I suggested. Maybe you should ask them to trade him somewhere to a team that will let him get the kind of Volume you were pointing out that he needs. That way you can point at his actual numbers during games next time intead of using a per 100 stat that is more useful to projecting more minutes from a bench guy or rookie that hasn't seen the floor enough yet for real numbers. Maybe if he would have just hit 2 of 4 more often instead of hoping to reach 2 of 5 eveyone would have passed it his way more often. Such a small difference confidence rides on.

[Jedzz]

Let's Compare Patton's per 100 defensive rating to Saric's! I know Patton's 3 shot per 100 is probably zero so no point in comparing that. Saric Wins on 3s by default. But defense while playing with Town or Dieng, now that could be helpful.

2018/2019
Saric 114 BRef / 110.9 nba.com
Patton 103 BRef / 100 nba.com

In MN, Post allstar break Saric was 114 nba.com.
In Philadelphia in 17/18, Saric was 99.3 nba.com post allstar break. all season it was 101.7 nba.com.
It matters who he is playing with it seems.

In MN 17/18, Patton was a per 100 def rating of 90 nba.com. Good for 19th best in the league! DPOY Candidate!

If every average 3pt shooter on this roster had Saric volume per 100 this team shouldn't be a bottom dweller in the 3pt rankings like we usually are.

Even if that wasn't such a loaded and qualified statement already, again, using per 100 isn't useful in my opinion when discussing players that actually start games or play high minuts already. The real game numbers will better reflect what is happening per game and per situations teams are in. Boy, good thing you didn't wish Towns had Saric's per 100 volume numbers. Towns being up at 6.7 attempts per 100 and 2.7 makes per 100 with an actual .400 at his volume thankfully doesn't eye test for "average". Per 100 is also useless for players with almost no playing time at all as we can see from Patton's example.

Got to love it when per 100 stats can blow your mind back. If only every average defender on this team could have had Patton's 2017/18 per 100 defensive rating of 90 nba.com or 92 BRef. If only every player could have! No need to qualify it. A 90 per 100 def. rating (nba.com) seems enough for me. Max him, said the per 100 guy!

[Killboard]

Boy, good thing you didn't wish Towns had Saric's per 100 volume numbers. Towns being up at 6.7 attempts per 100 and 2.7 makes per 100 with an actual .400 at his volume thankfully doesn't eye test for "average".

I dont get what you are trying to say here, but looking at boths 3PA and % I would say the thing most similar in their games is willigness to shoot the 3 on good efficency. 7.5 3PA (.383) & 6.7 3PA (.400) this season. Obviously the way those shots are took is totally different, since KAT generates gravity all around the half court, that's why he isnt a normal player and is a whole another topic.

Per 100 is also useless for players with almost no playing time at all as we can see from Patton's example.

Sure. Sample must be big enough to not be just a streak. In Saric case, he already has 2 full seasons of 8.3(.393%) and 7.6(.365%) 3PAper100 with Philly. He played over 3400 minutes in that time.

Got to love it when per 100 stats can blow your mind back. If only every average defender on this team could have had Patton's 2017/18 per 100 defensive rating of 90 nba.com or 92 BRef. If only every player could have! No need to qualify it. A 90 per 100 def. rating (nba.com) seems enough for me. Max him, said the per 100 guy!

What you not to understand is that I compared him to others player per100. Was for even out the sample. He had higher 3PA per100 than Wiggins (6.6), Okogie (5.9), Rose (5.0), Teague (4.0) and Jones (3.9), and obviously Gibson and Dieng. Instead of complaining about Saric not shooting 3's, the wolves should look for players to increase their attemps to Saric level IMO.

[Jedzz]

What you not to understand is that I compared him to others player per100. Was for even out the sample. He had higher 3PA per100 than Wiggins (6.6), Okogie (5.9), Rose (5.0), Teague (4.0) and Jones (3.9), and obviously Gibson and Dieng. Instead of complaining about Saric not shooting 3's, the wolves should look for players to increase their attemps to Saric level IMO.

I understand. Yes, in order to attempt to refute my suggestion to bring in Patton as a backup here at all, or that he could even maybe handle what Saric does for us, you compared Saric's per100 to a rookie SG. Which is exactly why I thought this was all so silly. I've completed my piece on this so I'll give you a +1 for trying so hard to make it work you've come full circle to your original claim. However having long ago crossed the finish line I am enjoying a chilled drink in the shade of the car hauler. When you are finished defending Saric's honor you will deserve a chilled one yourself.

[minimus]

Boy, good thing you didn't wish Towns had Saric's per 100 volume numbers. Towns being up at 6.7 attempts per 100 and 2.7 makes per 100 with an actual .400 at his volume thankfully doesn't eye test for "average".

I dont get what you are trying to say here, but looking at boths 3PA and % I would say the thing most similar in their games is willigness to shoot the 3 on good efficency. 7.5 3PA (.383) & 6.7 3PA (.400) this season. Obviously the way those shots are took is totally different, since KAT generates gravity all around the half court, that's why he isnt a normal player and is a whole another topic.

Per 100 is also useless for players with almost no playing time at all as we can see from Patton's example.

Sure. Sample must be big enough to not be just a streak. In Saric case, he already has 2 full seasons of 8.3(.393%) and 7.6(.365%) 3PAper100 with Philly. He played over 3400 minutes in that time.

Got to love it when per 100 stats can blow your mind back. If only every average defender on this team could have had Patton's 2017/18 per 100 defensive rating of 90 nba.com or 92 BRef. If only every player could have! No need to qualify it. A 90 per 100 def. rating (nba.com) seems enough for me. Max him, said the per 100 guy!

What you not to understand is that I compared him to others player per100. Was for even out the sample. He had higher 3PA per100 than Wiggins (6.6), Okogie (5.9), Rose (5.0), Teague (4.0) and Jones (3.9), and obviously Gibson and Dieng. Instead of complaining about Saric not shooting 3's, the wolves should look for players to increase their attemps to Saric level IMO.

I'm okay with Saric as stretch 4. He fits well in offense with KAT. My problem with Saric as full time PF is his defensive limits. He is from. mediocre defender against some PFs to awful against others. That's why his 3pa numbers per 100 possessions is a bit misleading to me. Because I am not sure if you can keep him in the game many minutes against every opponent. But again I think it is more about his next contract, if he signs next contract similar to other role players I'd be more than happy. See Jeremi Grant, Bjelica contracts as example. See how SAC plays Bagley as substitution for Bjelica. As for Patton I think we could play him as MEM did with Gasol and Jackson.

[Killboard]

I'm okay with Saric as stretch 4. He fits well in offense with KAT. My problem with Saric as full time PF is his defensive limits. He is from. mediocre defender against some PFs to awful against others. That's why his 3pa numbers per 100 possessions is a bit misleading to me. Because I am not sure if you can keep him in the game many minutes against every opponent. But again I think it is more about his next contract, if he signs next contract similar to other role players I'd be more than happy. See Jeremi Grant, Bjelica contracts as example. See how SAC plays Bagley as substitution for Bjelica. As for Patton I think we could play him as MEM did with Gasol and Jackson.

Saric defense isn't game changing but is solid. That's more than I can say about Wiggins or any PG not called Tyus. Gibson calling card is defense and the difference between the two wasn't noticeable.
Obviously if there is a way to find a game changer 4 who can give you 35 minutes per game and be a plus on both sides would make Saric expendable. But up to that time comes he is the best PF, and very cost efficient too. I can't say that of other starters (looking at wiggins).

I neither see teams paying 12-16M to snatch him in RFA next offseason. So, I would look for talent to upgrade the position in draft or a solid MLE alternative, but Im counting on him being there if new talent doesn't arrive. Is a similar case to Tyus. They are solid role players for cheap who compliment our star player well, and that if Roco and Teague are healthy next season could be key pieces to play above .500 ball.

[SmokeyPaw]

Thunder signed him. https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255166/Thunder-Sign-Justin-Patton

[SmokeyPaw]

Contract details:

Read on Twitter

[Jedzz]

Contract details:

Read on Twitter

So if this year is 700K and they are now over the Lux line by 920K, doesn't that mean that a previous signing actually already put them over the lux by 220K and has nothing to do with this signing?

Good to see someone is willing to give him a chance. Hope they give him some minutes to show something and lock in the rest of that deal.

[Killboard]

Contract details:

Read on Twitter

So if this year is 700K and they are now over the Lux line by 920K, doesn't that mean that a previous signing actually already put them over the lux by 220K and has nothing to do with this signing?

Good to see someone is willing to give him a chance. Hope they give him some minutes to show something and lock in the rest of that deal.

The guaranteed part is 700k, but the minimum for which he can sign is about 1.44M. So I assume they were under for 600k previous to Patton and now are at the said 900k above. He could never be healthy enough to be a rotation player, but he at least made good money for his potential.

[Jedzz]

He could never be healthy enough to be a rotation player, but he at least made good money for his potential.

Not exactly sure what you meant by this part. He's not the first player dealing with injuries on the way into the league. Half the fanbase wanted a PG drafted in this very draft that only had a couple games in college because of his injuries, and sounds like he's still not really ready to play yet. Then you have Embiid's and Simmons' starts to their careers. Things happen. They either come back or they don't. Maybe sometimes when they don't it's occasionally because no one will give them the chance. Maybe some just miss their window? Rose needed help from Thibs for a chance to prove he can still get things done. Read a thousand posts here that were either directly saying he had nothing left or their tone on him surely gave it away. Like it was for Rose, this will be on Patton now to prove he's worthy with whatever shot they give him. I hope he breaks in showing people were wrong for letting him go. Even if I don't want to add another name to the list of those that got away. I've got no reason to hate on him.

I never thought Embiid was going to comeback and sustain any kind of regular rotation with the direction he was heading. But he's already made it longer than I originally expected.

[minimus]

Really liked him as #16 draft pick, he could have been a steal of that draft. Wish good luck!

[packforfreedom]

Really liked him as #16 draft pick, he could have been a steal of that draft. Wish good luck!

OKC fans on realgm seem to hate him already.

[mplsfonz23]

Really liked him as #16 draft pick, he could have been a steal of that draft. Wish good luck!

Turns out Kuzma was the SOD.