Igor fired - New Coaching Search Discussion

[bwgood77]

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A little weird coming from him considering his terrible work as a GM is a large reason why this is business as usual. I mean this dude hired Earl Watson lol. He squandered every top 10 pick he's had outside of Ayton, and even that might have been the wrong choice. He constantly sat on his hands when opportunities to improve presented themselves and created player relation issues every season. His free agent signings were horrendous and he couldn't build a balanced team for his life.

Maybe I'm just desensitized at this point, but the Igor firing doesn't bother me that much anymore. He has a very good basketball mind, but I think we saw the signs that he wasn't the right guy to be our head coach. Instances where players didn't listen or show respect to him coming off the floor, constant effort issues during the season, communication issues with the team that led to Prunty having a larger voice in practice and timeouts, and he never found a way to get Ayton involved as more than a screen and roll guy. I wasn't really a fan of the coaching staff that he put together either. I don't think James Jones wants to trust his job to a guy that was hired by McDonough, especially after a massively disappointing season regardless of context.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny hearing his take. I think Igor would have been fine with a great structure in place and some time, but he was doomed, as pretty much any coach will be. It will be insanely more difficult with our infrastructure for a head coach to succeed. Most of our players came into the league under Watson so it's a tough adjustment to respond to and respect proper coaching.

The "right" coach for this group, as you put it, might be a players coach, and the players might be happy, but I don't think it will lead to anything meaningful in the end barring landing Zion, and even then it would probably be tough. I don't think we have the structure and culture at this point in time to build anything meaningful and I'm not sure the players respect coaching and the hard work it would take to get there.

A post on the GB I thought put it in an interesting way..

Igor came from the Jazz, who are ultra-focused on culture and winning as a team. Snyder was given years to weed out the Trey Burkes, Trey Lyles, and Kanters of the group, which were all cancers because of their poor coachability and work ethic. They had gotten that way because of the terrible performance expectations given to them by the previous coaching staff. Once Snyder got there and demanded that they play within the system, they got frustrated and angry with their roles (each wanting to be the next Kobe).

The Jazz still sucked for the first couple years (despite there still being progress), but now since the right people are in place, and the wrong players are gone, the Jazz are able to perform extremely well with a mediocre roster that hasn't been fed by top 5 picks like the Suns.

Point being, if Quinn Snyder was hired by the Suns, they would never have let that process even happen, and Snyder wouldn't be with them anymore.

[lilfishi22]

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A little weird coming from him considering his terrible work as a GM is a large reason why this is business as usual. I mean this dude hired Earl Watson lol. He squandered every top 10 pick he's had outside of Ayton, and even that might have been the wrong choice. He constantly sat on his hands when opportunities to improve presented themselves and created player relation issues every season. His free agent signings were horrendous and he couldn't build a balanced team for his life.

Maybe I'm just desensitized at this point, but the Igor firing doesn't bother me that much anymore. He has a very good basketball mind, but I think we saw the signs that he wasn't the right guy to be our head coach. Instances where players didn't listen or show respect to him coming off the floor, constant effort issues during the season, communication issues with the team that led to Prunty having a larger voice in practice and timeouts, and he never found a way to get Ayton involved as more than a screen and roll guy. I wasn't really a fan of the coaching staff that he put together either. I don't think James Jones wants to trust his job to a guy that was hired by McDonough, especially after a massively disappointing season regardless of context.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny hearing his take. I think Igor would have been fine with a great structure in place and some time, but he was doomed, as pretty much any coach will be. It will be insanely more difficult with our infrastructure for a head coach to succeed. Most of our players came into the league under Watson so it's a tough adjustment to respond to and respect proper coaching.

A post on the GB I thought put it in an interesting way..

Igor came from the Jazz, who are ultra-focused on culture and winning as a team. Snyder was given years to weed out the Trey Burkes, Trey Lyles, and Kanters of the group, which were all cancers because of their poor coachability and work ethic. They had gotten that way because of the terrible performance expectations given to them by the previous coaching staff. Once Snyder got there and demanded that they play within the system, they got frustrated and angry with their roles (each wanting to be the next Kobe).

The Jazz still sucked for the first couple years (despite there still being progress), but now since the right people are in place, and the wrong players are gone, the Jazz are able to perform extremely well with a mediocre roster that hasn't been fed by top 5 picks like the Suns.

Point being, if Quinn Snyder was hired by the Suns, they would never have let that process even happen, and Snyder wouldn't be with them anymore.

Sounds like pandering to a bunch of kids who don't know how to play over a coach who understands for the long term these kids need structure, discipline and real basketball knowledge.

What does make me feel a tiny big better looking at another perspective is JB Bickerstaff firing. He was brought on as a young HC to take over a young team that is transitioning into a full blown rebuild situation (once they move on from Conley) and with a change in front office, they gave him the boot. Not saying it's a good thing but just makes me feel a little better that this is not a just Suns anomaly

[MathiasPW]

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I bet he is next on our list as well.

don't you dare say it

Sometimes I wonder if Kerrsed secretly wants us to be bad.

[alamin330]

A little weird coming from him considering his terrible work as a GM is a large reason why this is business as usual. I mean this dude hired Earl Watson lol. He squandered every top 10 pick he's had outside of Ayton, and even that might have been the wrong choice. He constantly sat on his hands when opportunities to improve presented themselves and created player relation issues every season. His free agent signings were horrendous and he couldn't build a balanced team for his life.

Maybe I'm just desensitized at this point, but the Igor firing doesn't bother me that much anymore. He has a very good basketball mind, but I think we saw the signs that he wasn't the right guy to be our head coach. Instances where players didn't listen or show respect to him coming off the floor, constant effort issues during the season, communication issues with the team that led to Prunty having a larger voice in practice and timeouts, and he never found a way to get Ayton involved as more than a screen and roll guy. I wasn't really a fan of the coaching staff that he put together either. I don't think James Jones wants to trust his job to a guy that was hired by McDonough, especially after a massively disappointing season regardless of context.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny hearing his take. I think Igor would have been fine with a great structure in place and some time, but he was doomed, as pretty much any coach will be. It will be insanely more difficult with our infrastructure for a head coach to succeed. Most of our players came into the league under Watson so it's a tough adjustment to respond to and respect proper coaching.

A post on the GB I thought put it in an interesting way..

Igor came from the Jazz, who are ultra-focused on culture and winning as a team. Snyder was given years to weed out the Trey Burkes, Trey Lyles, and Kanters of the group, which were all cancers because of their poor coachability and work ethic. They had gotten that way because of the terrible performance expectations given to them by the previous coaching staff. Once Snyder got there and demanded that they play within the system, they got frustrated and angry with their roles (each wanting to be the next Kobe).

The Jazz still sucked for the first couple years (despite there still being progress), but now since the right people are in place, and the wrong players are gone, the Jazz are able to perform extremely well with a mediocre roster that hasn't been fed by top 5 picks like the Suns.

Point being, if Quinn Snyder was hired by the Suns, they would never have let that process even happen, and Snyder wouldn't be with them anymore.

Sounds like pandering to a bunch of kids who don't know how to play over a coach who understands for the long term these kids need structure, discipline and real basketball knowledge.

What does make me feel a tiny big better looking at another perspective is JB Bickerstaff firing. He was brought on as a young HC to take over a young team that is transitioning into a full blown rebuild situation (once they move on from Conley) and with a change in front office, they gave him the boot. Not saying it's a good thing but just makes me feel a little better that this is not a just Suns anomaly

whoever wrote that nice try. Snyder is a very expressive, loud, and demanding head coach. Igor is very quiet, passive, and has no intensity at all. Wasn't it all the way up to like feb or march that igor got his first tech and maybe march april where he got his first tech defending a no call on booker? Igor is not head coaching material. It takes a special type of personality. Igor might be a genius but he lacks the skill to translate his genius into something young players can comprehend.

[darealjuice]

Yeah, I just thought it was funny hearing his take. I think Igor would have been fine with a great structure in place and some time, but he was doomed, as pretty much any coach will be. It will be insanely more difficult with our infrastructure for a head coach to succeed. Most of our players came into the league under Watson so it's a tough adjustment to respond to and respect proper coaching.

A post on the GB I thought put it in an interesting way..

Igor came from the Jazz, who are ultra-focused on culture and winning as a team. Snyder was given years to weed out the Trey Burkes, Trey Lyles, and Kanters of the group, which were all cancers because of their poor coachability and work ethic. They had gotten that way because of the terrible performance expectations given to them by the previous coaching staff. Once Snyder got there and demanded that they play within the system, they got frustrated and angry with their roles (each wanting to be the next Kobe).

The Jazz still sucked for the first couple years (despite there still being progress), but now since the right people are in place, and the wrong players are gone, the Jazz are able to perform extremely well with a mediocre roster that hasn't been fed by top 5 picks like the Suns.

Point being, if Quinn Snyder was hired by the Suns, they would never have let that process even happen, and Snyder wouldn't be with them anymore.

Oh it's definitely funny to see he's a talking head now. He's certainly a victim of Sarver's whims too.

I don't think that Snyder and Igor's situations are that similar. Snyder won 13 more games than the previous head coach in his first season with the same roster, while Igor had a worse record than Triano last year despite the team actively tanking last year and having the #1 pick/a more talented roster this year. I don't think our team having cancers is our problem as much as the team being poorly balanced and too young/undeveloped with a lack of starting-caliber players at multiple positions. Igor may be a good coach in the right situation, but I do question whether he's a guy that will command respect as a head coach with his somewhat meek personality and language/accent barrier.

[Fo-Real]

I'm guessing from the lack of outrage from current players and castoffs from this season like Ariza, Chandler, Dudley etc that he did not connect with the players for whatever reason. Not gonna lie, I mentioned several times over the first half of the season how I hated his style. Thought the constant dribble handoff at the top of the key was just pointless, stupid and repetitious to the point that teams just started jumping, disrupting it and stealing the ball at a high rate. Spoke about how even without a true Pg you could still feature Ayton more considering that early on he showed he was a good passer also. Even argued with some that it seemed that some vets like Warren and Ariza seemed to be annoyed by Koko each time they came to the sideline for timeouts and coming out of the game. Maybe there is a reason that past REALLY solid vets absolutely rolled over on us, Tyson and Ariza had never done this before to anyone. There were literally a couple times in a couple wins that it seemed Crawford helped coach down the stretch to win a couple games, making his own substitutions and instructions. The fact that he stood there watching us never get a call without so much as whimpering was maddening. Watching bender never look at the rim after receiving a pass and not screaming at him to shoot was maddening. Warren (though par for the course with every coach) never seemed to respond to him and he and Josh REFUSED to make eye contact with him as he always stopped them to talk.

No matter what you decide to think of the guys on the team who may have given him a vote of no confidence you cant ignore that once he has lost them, a change must be made. I thought he did enough down the stretch to save his job but maybe the exit interviews nixed that. The late season success with Oubre and Johnson, is that Koko coaching or just their talent? No one else got better, and roles were mostly muddy as hell.

To sum up how I feel about it, I would have kept him for continuity reasons and not because he impressed me as a coach. Think he should have gotten another year to developed as a coach because our roster sucked and he is still learning how to be a head coach but not because his coaching made him stand out.

[alamin330]

I'm guessing from the lack of outrage from current players and castoffs from this season like Ariza, Chandler, Dudley etc that he did not connect with the players for whatever reason. Not gonna lie, I mentioned several times over the first half of the season how I hated his style. Thought the constant dribble handoff at the top of the key was just pointless, stupid and repetitious to the point that teams just started jumping, disrupting it and stealing the ball at a high rate. Spoke about how even without a true Pg you could still feature Ayton more considering that early on he showed he was a good passer also. Even argued with some that it seemed that some vets like Warren and Ariza seemed to be annoyed by Koko each time they came to the sideline for timeouts and coming out of the game. Maybe there is a reason that past REALLY solid vets absolutely rolled over on us, Tyson and Ariza had never done this before to anyone. There were literally a couple times in a couple wins that it seemed Crawford helped coach down the stretch to win a couple games, making his own substitutions and instructions. The fact that he stood there watching us never get a call without so much as whimpering was maddening. Watching bender never look at the rim after receiving a pass and not screaming at him to shoot was maddening. Warren (though par for the course with every coach) never seemed to respond to him and he and Josh REFUSED to make eye contact with him as he always stopped them to talk.

No matter what you decide to think of the guys on the team who may have given him a vote of no confidence you cant ignore that once he has lost them, a change must be made. I thought he did enough down the stretch to save his job but maybe the exit interviews nixed that. The late season success with Oubre and Johnson, is that Koko coaching or just their talent? No one else got better, and roles were mostly muddy as hell.

To sum up how I feel about it, I would have kept him for continuity reasons and not because he impressed me as a coach. Think he should have gotten another year to developed as a coach because our roster sucked and he is still learning how to be a head coach but not because his coaching made him stand out.

So you're saying you rather keep him and risk him actually not being a good coach and losing more and losing talent a free agents and booker asking for a trade all just for continuity rather then firing him after 1 year only so he can't do anymore damage, getting a better coach who can communicate and relate to the players as well as attract free agents? Sounds wise to me. Media is gonna make jokes about the suns as long as they're down. ESPN especially are bullies. They kick you when you're down unless you're Lebron and they try to dictate the way things are done. They don't care if suns had continuity, if Suns lost 60 games again next year and couldn't sign a free agent the media is still gonna talk negative about the suns until anarchy ensues. It's not like suns fired a coach of the year or a coach who made his team overachieve, they fired a guy who lost a lot of games and turned a 7'1 250 pound agile basketball player into a statue in 4th quarters.

[TheLogician]

Hire Dave Joerger. Uptempo offense is what we need. Not sure what Monty Williams has done to merit so much praise. Let the Lakers pay him.

[Fo-Real]

I'm guessing from the lack of outrage from current players and castoffs from this season like Ariza, Chandler, Dudley etc that he did not connect with the players for whatever reason. Not gonna lie, I mentioned several times over the first half of the season how I hated his style. Thought the constant dribble handoff at the top of the key was just pointless, stupid and repetitious to the point that teams just started jumping, disrupting it and stealing the ball at a high rate. Spoke about how even without a true Pg you could still feature Ayton more considering that early on he showed he was a good passer also. Even argued with some that it seemed that some vets like Warren and Ariza seemed to be annoyed by Koko each time they came to the sideline for timeouts and coming out of the game. Maybe there is a reason that past REALLY solid vets absolutely rolled over on us, Tyson and Ariza had never done this before to anyone. There were literally a couple times in a couple wins that it seemed Crawford helped coach down the stretch to win a couple games, making his own substitutions and instructions. The fact that he stood there watching us never get a call without so much as whimpering was maddening. Watching bender never look at the rim after receiving a pass and not screaming at him to shoot was maddening. Warren (though par for the course with every coach) never seemed to respond to him and he and Josh REFUSED to make eye contact with him as he always stopped them to talk.

No matter what you decide to think of the guys on the team who may have given him a vote of no confidence you cant ignore that once he has lost them, a change must be made. I thought he did enough down the stretch to save his job but maybe the exit interviews nixed that. The late season success with Oubre and Johnson, is that Koko coaching or just their talent? No one else got better, and roles were mostly muddy as hell.

To sum up how I feel about it, I would have kept him for continuity reasons and not because he impressed me as a coach. Think he should have gotten another year to developed as a coach because our roster sucked and he is still learning how to be a head coach but not because his coaching made him stand out.

So you're saying you rather keep him and risk him actually not being a good coach and losing more and losing talent a free agents and booker asking for a trade all just for continuity rather then firing him after 1 year only so he can't do anymore damage, getting a better coach who can communicate and relate to the players as well as attract free agents? Sounds wise to me. Media is gonna make jokes about the suns as long as they're down. ESPN especially are bullies. They kick you when you're down unless you're Lebron and they try to dictate the way things are done. They don't care if suns had continuity, if Suns lost 60 games again next year and couldn't sign a free agent the media is still gonna talk negative about the suns until anarchy ensues. It's not like suns fired a coach of the year or a coach who made his team overachieve, they fired a guy who lost a lot of games and turned a 7'1 250 pound agile basketball player into a statue in 4th quarters.

Way to cherry pick, I am saying i see why he was fired but i hate being in this posistion again. Giving him another year due to the circumstances of a **** roster but if he lost the players already and that was voiced then he had to go.

[alamin330]

I'm guessing from the lack of outrage from current players and castoffs from this season like Ariza, Chandler, Dudley etc that he did not connect with the players for whatever reason. Not gonna lie, I mentioned several times over the first half of the season how I hated his style. Thought the constant dribble handoff at the top of the key was just pointless, stupid and repetitious to the point that teams just started jumping, disrupting it and stealing the ball at a high rate. Spoke about how even without a true Pg you could still feature Ayton more considering that early on he showed he was a good passer also. Even argued with some that it seemed that some vets like Warren and Ariza seemed to be annoyed by Koko each time they came to the sideline for timeouts and coming out of the game. Maybe there is a reason that past REALLY solid vets absolutely rolled over on us, Tyson and Ariza had never done this before to anyone. There were literally a couple times in a couple wins that it seemed Crawford helped coach down the stretch to win a couple games, making his own substitutions and instructions. The fact that he stood there watching us never get a call without so much as whimpering was maddening. Watching bender never look at the rim after receiving a pass and not screaming at him to shoot was maddening. Warren (though par for the course with every coach) never seemed to respond to him and he and Josh REFUSED to make eye contact with him as he always stopped them to talk.

No matter what you decide to think of the guys on the team who may have given him a vote of no confidence you cant ignore that once he has lost them, a change must be made. I thought he did enough down the stretch to save his job but maybe the exit interviews nixed that. The late season success with Oubre and Johnson, is that Koko coaching or just their talent? No one else got better, and roles were mostly muddy as hell.

To sum up how I feel about it, I would have kept him for continuity reasons and not because he impressed me as a coach. Think he should have gotten another year to developed as a coach because our roster sucked and he is still learning how to be a head coach but not because his coaching made him stand out.

So you're saying you rather keep him and risk him actually not being a good coach and losing more and losing talent a free agents and booker asking for a trade all just for continuity rather then firing him after 1 year only so he can't do anymore damage, getting a better coach who can communicate and relate to the players as well as attract free agents? Sounds wise to me. Media is gonna make jokes about the suns as long as they're down. ESPN especially are bullies. They kick you when you're down unless you're Lebron and they try to dictate the way things are done. They don't care if suns had continuity, if Suns lost 60 games again next year and couldn't sign a free agent the media is still gonna talk negative about the suns until anarchy ensues. It's not like suns fired a coach of the year or a coach who made his team overachieve, they fired a guy who lost a lot of games and turned a 7'1 250 pound agile basketball player into a statue in 4th quarters.

Way to cherry pick, I am saying i see why he was fired but i hate being in this posistion again. Giving him another year due to the circumstances of a **** roster but if he lost the players already and that was voiced then he had to go.

definitely had to go if he lost the players. Just watching huddles though I could tell Prunty had a lot more respect from the players.

[TheLogician]

Next HC needs to let the guys play and only coach when necessary. Don't call every play like an offensive coordinator, just make adjustments during timeouts and at halftime. Possessions should be dictated by Booker/PG, ideally.

[bwgood77]

Next HC needs to let the guys play and only coach when necessary. Don't call every play like an offensive coordinator, just make adjustments during timeouts and at halftime. Possessions should be dictated by Booker/PG, ideally.

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

[TheLogician]

Next HC needs to let the guys play and only coach when necessary. Don't call every play like an offensive coordinator, just make adjustments during timeouts and at halftime. Possessions should be dictated by Booker/PG, ideally.

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

Igor should have just taken a seat. His play calling had no effect and whatever game plan or adjustments he came up with never worked.

[bwgood77]

Next HC needs to let the guys play and only coach when necessary. Don't call every play like an offensive coordinator, just make adjustments during timeouts and at halftime. Possessions should be dictated by Booker/PG, ideally.

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

Igor should have just taken a seat. His play calling had no effect and whatever game plan or adjustments he came up with never worked.

Yeah, may has well have, and like you said, so should anyone else who comes on if they want to stick around a while. Might be tough though...they will likely continue to be the scapegoat since the FO won't blame themselves.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Next HC needs to let the guys play and only coach when necessary. Don't call every play like an offensive coordinator, just make adjustments during timeouts and at halftime. Possessions should be dictated by Booker/PG, ideally.

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

Igor should have just taken a seat. His play calling had no effect and whatever game plan or adjustments he came up with never worked.

If only there would have been a ball handler available who had experience in Igor's system and he could have trusted to run it.... Hmm

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[TheLogician]

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

Igor should have just taken a seat. His play calling had no effect and whatever game plan or adjustments he came up with never worked.

If only there would have been a ball handler available who had experience in Igor's system and he could have trusted to run it.... Hmm

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

You mean Dragic, right?

I wonder if Booker would have signed the extension if we drafted Doncic? Probably... it would have been interesting chemistry-wise.

[Kdab]

You mean Dragic, right?

I wonder if Booker would have signed the extension if we drafted Doncic? Probably... it would have been interesting chemistry-wise.

If Booker pouted like a bitch for drafting another player that can carry team, I would have had zero issues trading him to NY for Porzingis.

[BobbieL]

That's usually ultimately what ends up happening anyway, but then people will get mad that Ayton isn't utilized enough.

Igor should have just taken a seat. His play calling had no effect and whatever game plan or adjustments he came up with never worked.

If only there would have been a ball handler available who had experience in Igor's system and he could have trusted to run it.... Hmm

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

If the front office thought they were building a roster with vets to win (though Ariza and Anderson were still not on team and Crawford wasn’t close) the pick should have been Luka Doncic.

You pick Ayton for the long term - not 18/19. I think most on this board got that!!!

[BurningHeart]

You need players to buy in. But I'm sick of catering to these players. They're hostage-takers in recent years.

Any players that want to pull that bull are free to join the Lakers or whoever the **** else.

[simon24]

I hate it for Suns fans. They deserve better. It wouldn't surprise me if Joeger takes the job. He doesn't seem to mind working for bad management.

Suns fans do not deserve better.

Suns fans repeatedly called to lose on purpose.

Suns fans deserve only what they asked for.

This is the result of what they asked for.

Booker's had 5 HCs in 5 years. That's ridiculous. One coach alone should get atleast 3 years. I can understand 2 coaches in 5 if you got a roster like the Warriors.