Biggest Gripes

[Stern Fixer]

Too predictable. Why does Snyder insist on going iso Mitchell down the stretch.....even when he can't throw a rock in the ocean? Another example is that funky defense on Harden where we basically play behind him. Why do we continue that down the stretch, long after he's figured out he's got a clear path for a floater?
Penetration. Ingles has got to be the only guy in the league that consistently kicks it out to three when he's at the cup and wide open. Then there's Michell that never kicks it out even when the entire opposing team has collapsed on him. Two opposites but both equally bad.
Butter fingers. Why can't Gobert hang onto the ball to save his life?
Anything else? Or am I full of beans AFAYC?

[MeestR]

Too predictable. Why does Snyder insist on going iso Mitchell down the stretch.....even when he can't throw a rock in the ocean? Another example is that funky defense on Harden where we basically play behind him. Why do we continue that down the stretch, long after he's figured out he's got a clear path for a floater?

He is the best iso option we have. Down the stretch, I think it is more on the teammates than on Snyder. They see we need something, so the ball goes to Mitchell. He'll get it, eventually. Unfortunately, the goals for this year required a 22 yr old, 2nd year player to get it now.

That funky defense on Harden that led him going right and shooting floaters over Gobert or Favors, was the least effective shot Harden takes. It worked too. He missed an awful lot of them.

Penetration. Ingles has got to be the only guy in the league that consistently kicks it out to three when he's at the cup and wide open. Then there's Michell that never kicks it out even when the entire opposing team has collapsed on him. Too opposites but both equally bad.

Ingles talked quite a bit about that during his exit interview. He said they were forcing him right. He has never really been a focus of the other teams defense before and this series really through him off. That may have been why he was more comfortable passing it out rather than shooting it himself. Mitchell is doing what he has been asked and is expected to do. Be patient.

Butter fingers. Why can't Gobert hang onto the ball to save his life?

That last pass was a little low. Its mirror is a common play actually and designed to pull Gobert's defender off of him. The problem was the bad pass from Ingles' off hand (from having been forced right), and Harden actually deciding to play defense at the end of the game, even if said defense involved the "Arm Is Part Of The Ball" methodology.

This loss sucks. If the Jazz just shoot just a little better, even just closer to average but still below, then the Jazz are playing Game 6 in Salt Lake tonight up 3-2. The game plan worked. But the Rockets were in their heads before the series even started.

[zero24gravity]

Too predictable. Another example is that funky defense on Harden where we basically play behind him. Why do we continue that down the stretch, long after he's figured out he's got a clear path for a floater?

That D was seemingly insane for the first 2 games, then it turned into Mad-Genius. It just took the team too long to buy-in and execute. I also think they made some really good adjustments on how to defend the lob pass when Harden go in the paint, by cutting off Capela early, or having a guard right on his back (saw a couple blocks by the little guys). "Too predictable" is a bit outlandish to say after seeing the least predictable defensive change I can remember any team making in the playoffs, ever.

Penetration. Ingles has got to be the only guy in the league that consistently kicks it out to three when he's at the cup and wide open. Then there's Michell that never kicks it out even when the entire opposing team has collapsed on him. Too opposites but both equally bad.

Ingles did a great job finishing inside or throwing the lob, when he was going to his left. He looked-off the defender more times than I can count & found himself a layup. It's when he goes right that he doesn't have near the same repertoire, but this didn't even become an issue until the playoffs. I'm guessing this will be his off-season focus (using his right hand).

For Mitchell, he's got decent vision, but once he gets inside, I think his priorities should be; #1 make a shot, #2 draw a foul, #3 lob pass, #4 kick it out. I guess I don't see the issue you see in this situation. Also, remember that his height makes it a lot more difficult to see & pass over the defense once he gets into the trees.

Butter fingers. Why can't Gobert hang onto the ball to save his life?

His hands are 10 times better than they were 3 years ago. He's not at Favors' level, but they aren't bad. Still, he can (and likely will) continue to work on this.

Anything else? Or am I full of beans AFAYC?

My concerns are more with unforced turnovers, missed free throws, certain players shooting too much (especially contested), and occasionally I have issue with substitution patterns (although not a huge concern).

[vryadli]

1. Playing weak when it is most important.
1.5 Loosing most of close games... which is almost same as 1 so I mark it as 1.5
1.75 And yes, I agree about TO, they are just incredible. And I consider them as relating to 1, to general game attitude too.

[Stern Fixer]

All good points and kudos to Mees and Zero for systematically and rationally refuting and elaborating on some of my assertions. To Mees I would say "why is it we only have one player on this playoff caliber team that can create his own shot in crunch time?". And then, "why is that one player undersized?" To Zero I would say, "but a lot of those unforced turnovers could be attributed to over-passing when good shots are passed up (Ingles), or to ill-advised plays (Gobert in traffic)". I hate to admit it but it was Rubio that kept game five close down the stretch, I mean before Mitchell time made him a spectator. Also, IMO until Gobert can catch, retain and execute like Favors, Favors should be closing out close games like he did in game four.

[LesGrossman]

Stern, i agree with the Iso thing. Its something i've called out all year and in the playoffs even more. Despite having played for years and coached for decades i seem to fail to understand why it is neccessary to deviate from an offense that has carried you all game. The argument in the regular season was "hey the defense gets more intense in the last minutes", something i've never bought into, but in the playoffs in a closing game its just pure nonsense. The defense was on top level all game. Same situation as in every other offensive posession - why suddenly go to iso over and over? Its OBVIOUSLY a failing concept, and has been for so many games now i've lost count. One would think that at some point Snyder is capable of changing his game plan. Maybe next season.

This is how to create and cultivate your own local version of a ball hogging, never accountable and overly confident Russell Westbrick.

[MeestR]

Bleacher Report on our Funky Defense: (a couple paragraph sample)

Utah’s gameplan, much like Harden’s signature offense, was unconventional, visually strange, difficult to love. Even some Jazz players struggled to embrace it at first. "When you see James Harden drive by you, that's uncomfortable,” Jazz coach Quin Snyder said. “You can either call that a blow by or you can call that making him drive, hopefully, into the teeth of our defense."

That ambiguity played into Utah’s hands, time and again. Harden averaged 27.8 points per game in the series, down 8.3 from the regular season (his usage rate dipped slightly as well). The Rockets as a whole were kept below 105 points for three straight contests (Games 3-5), the first time that’s happened since December. Though the Jazz lost in five games, their heroic gimmick showed great promise. (The Jazz were but a couple of late buckets from sending the series back to Utah for Game 6, maybe even with a 3-2 lead.) The odd, passive scheme made Harden—whose scoring had been a foregone conclusion all season—think and grapple. He played someone else’s game—a postmodern one with a ridiculous premise. He did things he didn’t really want to do.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2833552-no-one-can-stay-in-front-of-james-harden-is-that-the-secret-to-guarding-him

[Stern Fixer]

Stern, i agree with the Iso thing. Its something i've called out all year and in the playoffs even more. Despite having played for years and coached for decades i seem to fail to understand why it is neccessary to deviate from an offense that has carried you all game. The argument in the regular season was "hey the defense gets more intense in the last minutes", something i've never bought into, but in the playoffs in a closing game its just pure nonsense. The defense was on top level all game. Same situation as in every other offensive posession - why suddenly go to iso over and over? Its OBVIOUSLY a failing concept, and has been for so many games now i've lost count. One would think that at some point Snyder is capable of changing his game plan. Maybe next season.

This is how to create and cultivate your own local version of a ball hogging, never accountable and overly confident Russell Westbrick.

Yeah, hopefully you're right Les. You make a pretty iron clad argument and provide corroboration better than I could have, thanks for that.

[Stern Fixer]

Bleacher Report on our Funky Defense: (a couple paragraph sample)

Utah’s gameplan, much like Harden’s signature offense, was unconventional, visually strange, difficult to love. Even some Jazz players struggled to embrace it at first. "When you see James Harden drive by you, that's uncomfortable,” Jazz coach Quin Snyder said. “You can either call that a blow by or you can call that making him drive, hopefully, into the teeth of our defense."

That ambiguity played into Utah’s hands, time and again. Harden averaged 27.8 points per game in the series, down 8.3 from the regular season (his usage rate dipped slightly as well). The Rockets as a whole were kept below 105 points for three straight contests (Games 3-5), the first time that’s happened since December. Though the Jazz lost in five games, their heroic gimmick showed great promise. (The Jazz were but a couple of late buckets from sending the series back to Utah for Game 6, maybe even with a 3-2 lead.) The odd, passive scheme made Harden—whose scoring had been a foregone conclusion all season—think and grapple. He played someone else’s game—a postmodern one with a ridiculous premise. He did things he didn’t really want to do.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2833552-no-one-can-stay-in-front-of-james-harden-is-that-the-secret-to-guarding-him

Now I never said I didn't like the "Funky Defense" only that it was a wrinkle that I thought should have been employed for a period and then altered to keep him off balance. What is the point of maintaining it down the stretch when his rhythm has already been effected and now feels his best option is drive? The secret to success in any sport is unpredictability. I've played competitve tennis my whole life, and if I throw something like a drop shot in and then continue to employ it, there is a learning curve and my guile and competitive edge just went out the window. To be successful at any level you have to be unpredictable - isn't that why Belicheck took so much heat for Spygate?

[AingesBurner]

The fact I knew this team needed a scorer/shooter and DL apparently didn’t....

[zero24gravity]

The fact I knew this team needed a scorer/shooter and DL apparently didn’t....

Of course he knew. lol DL did get Korver, he was just hurt for the playoffs, which further exasperated the need. It'll be a target in the offseason, without a doubt, but it takes 2 to make deal happen. DL can't just wave a magic wand and get the player he wants.

[LesGrossman]

The fact I knew this team needed a scorer/shooter and DL apparently didn’t....

Do you really believe that had there been a scorer we would have seen anything else offensively?

[KqWIN]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

[stitches]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

Not gonna happen. People have already decided that Mitchell hogs the ball on purpose because he's selfish and wants to iso all the time.. even though we are the team that ISOs the LEAST in the whole league... like... LITERALLY the LAST IN THE LEAGUE!

[KqWIN]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

Not gonna happen. People have already decided that Mitchell hogs the ball on purpose because he's selfish and wants to iso all the time.. even though we are the team that ISOs the LEAST in the whole league... like... LITERALLY the LAST IN THE LEAGUE!

In some ways, this explanation is more favorable to Mitchell. Mitchell didn't struggle because he's in a situation that he's not good enough for (maybe no one is), he struggled because of some kind of selfish attitude or strategical oversight from Quin. If only they listened to us, we would cruised by HOU.

When you're losing, I get how it can be frustrating. I love Jazz basketball because I get emotionally invested in it. To expect people to be completely measured and process oriented as the games happen spoils the fun. But you can't seriously look back at these games critically and believe in this "iso is the devil" attitude.

[stitches]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

Not gonna happen. People have already decided that Mitchell hogs the ball on purpose because he's selfish and wants to iso all the time.. even though we are the team that ISOs the LEAST in the whole league... like... LITERALLY the LAST IN THE LEAGUE!

In some ways, this explanation is more favorable to Mitchell. Mitchell didn't struggle because he's in a situation that he's not good enough for (maybe no one is), he struggled because of some kind of selfish attitude or strategical oversight from Quin. If only they listened to us, we would cruised by HOU.

When you're losing, I get how it can be frustrating. I love Jazz basketball because I get emotionally invested in it. To expect people to be completely measured and process oriented as the games happen spoils the fun. But you can't seriously look back at these games critically and believe in this "iso is the devil" attitude.

Yeah, I get the frustration. I was super frustrated too, but we are misdiagnosing the source of the ill in this case...on a high level the problem is not that Mitchell is selfish and wants to ISO all the time, it's that he is young and not polished enough to be relatively efficient when we are forced to ISO. Hopefully he works on it and other aspects of his game in the off-season. On a lower level, the problem is that we don't have more and better offensive talent capable of creating offense when Mitchell struggles... DL has big part in solving this problem this or next summer...in a weird way I feel like our offensive system and Quin are the least to blame in this case.... we just need to improve the talent level, be it through additions to the roster or through getting Mitchell and the other young players to take a step forward in their game...

[LesGrossman]

now you start with that nonsense too, stitches? Wow. Its amazing how you can believe in some arbitrary number more than into your own eyes. The explanation is very, very simple for why we all SEE the Jazz iso over and over again but that number doesnt show it, but i'll leave it to you to figure it out. I had to ignore that otehr guy who kept stubbornly ignoring reality.

BTW i dont think anyone blames Mitchell seriously for the stupid isolations over and over. Its not up to him to call that, not in a real basketball team that is professionally coached.

[vryadli]

/

[vryadli]

OK, OK, we got it. The actual Jazz is just DM ans Q. Everything else is just a assets/nuisance that would traded by by any real GM for real stars to get the ring

[Ugly0598]

My biggest gripe is this team will probably be a similar unit to the past 3 years.