Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:29 pm

C.J McCollum needs to be looked in the same league as...

Klay Thompson
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
DeMar DeRozan

nikster · Post #2 » by **nikster** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:31 pm

Hard to assess, Beal because of the dumpster fire in WAS, Klays been off ball too much, Derozan I think is a tier below.

CJ and Oladipo are the 2 best for me there

Clay Davis · Post #3 » by **Clay Davis** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Oladipo is on a tier above all of them, imo.

BNM · Post #4 » by **BNM** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:35 pm

Of those 5, only C.J., Klay and DeRozan have averaged > 20 ppg for each of the past four seasons. DeRozan didn't average 20 ppg until his 5th season, Klay until his 4th season. C.J. averaged 20 ppg in his third season (and every season since).

The sad thing is the West is so stacked with great guards, C.J. doesn't even get considered for the all star game.

RCM88x · Post #5 » by **RCM88x** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:38 pm

Dipo

Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)

DeRozan

BNM · Post #6 » by **BNM** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Clay Davis wrote:Oladipo is on a tier above all of them, imo.

Oladipo is the best defender of the group, but also the weakest scorer. He's only averaged more than 19 ppg once. Beal has averaged over 20 ppg 3 times, C.J. 4 times, Klay 5 times and DeMar 6 times.

Victor needs to make up a lot of ground to be considered in the same category as the others offensively.

Effigy · Post #7 » by **Effigy** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm

He would be seen in that group if he played in the East. He’d be a perennial all star there and Likely have a team built around him.

deneem4 · Post #8 » by **deneem4** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:45 pm

It’s not cj isn’t an upper tier sg... it’s he plays with lillard who occasionally is underrated as an upper tier pg.

People sometimes push dame so hard they discredit cj...and even when dame doesn’t play so well they still discredit cj

If Portland is swept dame didn’t have enough help
If Portland wins its dame time...

Clay Davis · Post #9 » by **Clay Davis** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:45 pm

BNM wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:Oladipo is on a tier above all of them, imo.

Oladipo is the best defender of the group, but also the weakest scorer. He's only averaged more than 19 ppg once. Beal has averaged over 20 ppg 3 times, C.J. 4 times, Klay 5 times and DeMar 6 times.

Victor needs to make up a lot of ground to be considered in the same category as the others offensively.

In his defence, he got injured after his break-out season. He was still average <20 points, yeah, but there's plenty of time to turn it around in half a season.

spicy6 · Post #10 » by **spicy6** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm

Hes been averaging 26-6-5 in the postseason. Besides Harden there is no better SG. Players value is brought up in the playoffs and hes been playing like the second best SG in the league. And him and Dame take turns being the first and second option whereas a team like the rockets, wizards, pacers for example have guys who are definitive as first scoring options. Hes for sure in that upper tier top 3 or 4 at worst sg level player.

BNM · Post #11 » by **BNM** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:52 pm

RCM88x wrote:Dipo

Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)

DeRozan

Oladipo has had one really great season, the other 5 seasons, not so much. He's only shot above league average from 3-point range one time , and this season, before his injury, he was averaging 18.8 ppg on .519 TS%.

The other four:

C.J. 21.0 ppg on .553 TS%
DeMar 21.2 ppg on .542 TS%
Klay 21.5 ppg on .571 TS%
Beal 25.6 ppg on .581 TS%

Keep in mind Oladipo has only had one 20 ppg season in his career, the others have had several. C.J and Klay have had several 20 ppg seasons as the 2nd, or even 3rd options on their team. This season, Oladipo couldn't even average 19 ppg as the number 1 option on his team.

Oladipo gets bonus points for his defense, but when he can't hold a candle to the others in scoring volume or efficiency ranking him WAY above the others is well, let's call it optimistic.

NBAFan93 · Post #12 » by **NBAFan93** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pm

BNM wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Dipo

Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)

DeRozan

Oladipo has had one really great season, the other 5 seasons, not so much. He's only shot above league average from 3-point range one time , and this season, before his injury, he was averaging 18.8 ppg on .519 TS%.

The other four:

C.J. 21.0 ppg on .553 TS%
DeMar 21.2 ppg on .542 TS%
Klay 21.5 ppg on .571 TS%
Beal 25.6 ppg on .581 TS%

Keep in mind Oladipo has only had one 20 ppg season in his career, the others have had several. C.J and Klay have had several 20 ppg seasons as the 2nd, or even 3rd options on their team. This season, Oladipo couldn't even average 19 ppg as the number 1 option on his team.

Oladipo gets bonus points for his defense, but when he can't hold a candle to the others in scoring volume or efficiency ranking him WAY above the others is well, let's call it optimistic.

Thanks for spelling out the numbers on the Oladipo stuff. The overrating he is getting based on one good season is really getting out of hand and starting to annoying me.

I don’t dislike him, and he is a good defender, but goodness some of the people he’s being ranked above at this point is getting out of control. He’s been in the league 6 years - and was good for one, mediocre for 4, and half above average/half injured for another.

One 6th of a career being good does not make him better than guys who have been consistently good for most of their careers.

And I think people are overreacting to CJs good performance in this series...why do people always got to do that stuff. CJ didn’t have a very strong regular season at all and last year didn’t do anything to save them from a sweeping. I think DeRozan and Beal are a tier above him as players individually just cause they’ve been more consistent at carrying teams over their careers. Klay is in such a unique situation I’m not even sure how to compare him, but he is an excellent defender.

RoyceDa59 · Post #13 » by **RoyceDa59** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm

I think Beal is the best of the bunch.

PhilBlackson · Post #14 » by **PhilBlackson** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm

I think Butler still should be in this conversation.

He's played out as SF more so out of necessity of the roster but would easily be used AGAIN as a SG had he been playing next to a traditional SF.

But Harden is still above all others, and personally I like Beal and Dipo more. Mitchell have a tough series but in time and if the Jazz ever get another legit offensive threat, I think he'll get himself back in the conversation.

zzaj · Post #15 » by **zzaj** » Tue May 14, 2019 4:55 am

As a Blazer fan, I'd take Beal over CJ. Two years younger. Better at assisting others. Gets to the FT line.

DusterBuster · Post #16 » by **DusterBuster** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:04 am

I've always said I think Beal and CJ are pretty similar and about on the same level. Both have areas one excels where the other doesn't and I've always thought Blazer fans are a bit too harsh on CJ's playmaking for others. If he were asked to do more as a team leader like Beal and Dipo, I think he'd get there, whereas that's just not his role in Portland, nor is he asked to do those things.

In terms of just pure offensive talent, I think CJ is probably the craftiest of any SG in the league. He can score in so many more ways than a guy like Klay or DeMar can. That's not to say he's "more talented" overall, but in that one aspect of the game, I think he's arguably the leagues best.

Post #17 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:13 am

Healthy Dipo is the best of the bunch.

Klay is the most seamless but I wouldn’t say he’s better than Beal or CJ. Depends whether the team needs another ball-handler. Ball dominant PGs like Westbrook and Wall would prefer Klay.

It pains me to say it because I like DeMar but he’s the worst in the context of winning basketball.

baller16 · Post #18 » by **baller16** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:33 am

Beal is getting underrated here. He's a decent defender and is 10x the shot creator and passer compared to Klay.

Beal
Oladipo
Klay
CJ
Derozan

Post #19 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:36 am

baller16 wrote:Beal is getting underrated here. He's a decent defender and is 10x the shot creator and passer compared to Klay.

Beal
Oladipo
Klay
CJ
Derozan

Think I agree with the last 3 here but I'd still take Dipo when he's healthy. I could see a case for Beal as well though (and if Butler counts he's ahead of them all). Dipo's defense and how well his teams have done is changing it for me though. Beal was awesome this year.

Edit: More I think about it Dipo's definitely first for me.

Agree Beal is getting underrated from some though.

GQ Hot Dog · Post #20 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:40 am

bondom34 wrote:
baller16 wrote:Beal is getting underrated here. He's a decent defender and is 10x the shot creator and passer compared to Klay.

Beal
Oladipo
Klay
CJ
Derozan

Think I agree with the last 3 here but I'd still take Dipo when he's healthy. I could see a case for Beal as well though (and if Butler counts he's ahead of them all). Dipo's defense and how well his teams have done is changing it for me though. Beal was awesome this year.

Agree Beal is getting underrated from some though.

Klay is tough to compare to because he's only an off ball player. But he's without a doubt the best off ball shooting guard in the league. None of the other guys, if they were asked to play the way Klay plays, would have the same impact Klay has doing what he does.

Best Shooting Guard of this group?