Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's

[Roy The Natural]

Not too long ago I had a swarm of Portland fans swear black and blue that Nurk was their 2nd best player, due to “insert niche RS stats”. Lol give me a break, CJ carried your asses out of that series.

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."

The threads about CJ looking like an upper echelon SG, and I referred to his most recent showings in game 6 and a road game 7 to steal the series to approve this statement. Obviously Nurk can’t prove anything while he’s injured, but CJ just proved his worth ten times over. Do Portland fans still think he is a less significant piece?

Hmmm... It's difficult. I want to believe in CJ. 2 years ago, I thought he'd make a leap. 23ppg on 48% from the field, and 42% from 3 was incredible. I thought he'd bounce around in the mid/high 40s from the field, and low 40s from 3 while getting a slight uptick in playmaking and free throw rate going forward from that time. But he's still yet to match that year statistically, and seemed to regress in all areas... and most importantly, the areas he needed to take the next step as a player... those areas, he got noticeably worse. He can be great at times, but he needs to be more consistent in impacting the game outside of just hitting shots.

I guess, as a Blazer fan, he's earning back some respect and belief with me in this playoff run. In this playoff run, when his shot isn't falling, he's been passing the ball much better, and he's also been rebounding better. He's been mostly on in the playoffs though. What's frustrating is CJs lack of playmaking and setting up of teammates when he's not hitting his shots.

I mean, we see it this playoffs... CJ is capable of getting penetration, he absolutely MUST learn to pass out of drives better to truly take his game to the level it's capable of being at. I've given up on increasing his free throw rate. I've accepted it's just not really the way he plays. But there's no reason that he can't be averaging 4-5 assists a game with how much he has the ball, and how he's able to get around defenders.

IDK with CJ. I'd say to keep him until his contract's about up because he plays well in the playoffs, but he can really drag down the Blazers during the regular season, and it feels like he'd truly be best utilized in a supersub Lou Williams role on most regular season nights.

[Gatorade Sax]

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."

The threads about CJ looking like an upper echelon SG, and I referred to his most recent showings in game 6 and a road game 7 to steal the series to approve this statement. Obviously Nurk can’t prove anything while he’s injured, but CJ just proved his worth ten times over. Do Portland fans still think he is a less significant piece?

Hmmm... It's difficult. I want to believe in CJ. 2 years ago, I thought he'd make a leap. 23ppg on 48% from the field, and 42% from 3 was incredible. I thought he'd bounce around in the mid/high 40s from the field, and low 40s from 3 while getting a slight uptick in playmaking and free throw rate going forward from that time. But he's still yet to match that year statistically. He can be great at times, but he needs to be more consistent in impacting the game outside of just hitting shots.

I guess, as a Blazer fan, he's earning back some respect and belief with me in this playoff run. In this playoff run, when his shot isn't falling, he's been passing the ball much better, and he's also been rebounding better. He's been mostly on in the playoffs though. What's frustrating is CJs lack of playmaking and setting up of teammates when he's not hitting his shots.

I mean, we see it this playoffs... CJ is capable of getting penetration, he absolutely MUST learn to pass out of drives better to truly take his game to the level it's capable of being at. I've given up on increasing his free throw rate. I've accepted it's just not really the way he plays. But there's no reason that he can't be averaging 4-5 assists a game with how much he has the ball, and how he's able to get around defenders.

IDK with CJ. I'd say to keep him until his contract's about up because he plays well in the playoffs, but he can really drag down the Blazers during the regular season, and it feels like he'd truly be best utilized in a supersub Lou Williams role on most regular season nights.

A well thought out response, good to get some solid insight as I haven’t watched excessive amounts of the Blazers since the B Roy days. I think, at this stage, the team that uses him as a super sub would have to be some kinda squad for him to be riding the pine.

As for dragging you down in the regular season..well, you still finished 3rd seed for the 2nd straight year. Most fans would be happy with that.

[E-Balla]

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."

The threads about CJ looking like an upper echelon SG, and I referred to his most recent showings in game 6 and a road game 7 to steal the series to approve this statement. Obviously Nurk can’t prove anything while he’s injured, but CJ just proved his worth ten times over. Do Portland fans still think he is a less significant piece?

Hmmm... It's difficult. I want to believe in CJ. 2 years ago, I thought he'd make a leap. 23ppg on 48% from the field, and 42% from 3 was incredible. I thought he'd bounce around in the mid/high 40s from the field, and low 40s from 3 while getting a slight uptick in playmaking and free throw rate going forward from that time. But he's still yet to match that year statistically, and seemed to regress in all areas... and most importantly, the areas he needed to take the next step as a player... those areas, he got noticeably worse. He can be great at times, but he needs to be more consistent in impacting the game outside of just hitting shots.

I guess, as a Blazer fan, he's earning back some respect and belief with me in this playoff run. In this playoff run, when his shot isn't falling, he's been passing the ball much better, and he's also been rebounding better. He's been mostly on in the playoffs though. What's frustrating is CJs lack of playmaking and setting up of teammates when he's not hitting his shots.

I mean, we see it this playoffs... CJ is capable of getting penetration, he absolutely MUST learn to pass out of drives better to truly take his game to the level it's capable of being at. I've given up on increasing his free throw rate. I've accepted it's just not really the way he plays. But there's no reason that he can't be averaging 4-5 assists a game with how much he has the ball, and how he's able to get around defenders.

IDK with CJ. I'd say to keep him until his contract's about up because he plays well in the playoffs, but he can really drag down the Blazers during the regular season, and it feels like he'd truly be best utilized in a supersub Lou Williams role on most regular season nights.

He averaged 21/4/3 and ranks well in all impact stats how the hell could anyone argue he hurt the team in the regular season?

[Roy The Natural]

The threads about CJ looking like an upper echelon SG, and I referred to his most recent showings in game 6 and a road game 7 to steal the series to approve this statement. Obviously Nurk can’t prove anything while he’s injured, but CJ just proved his worth ten times over. Do Portland fans still think he is a less significant piece?

Hmmm... It's difficult. I want to believe in CJ. 2 years ago, I thought he'd make a leap. 23ppg on 48% from the field, and 42% from 3 was incredible. I thought he'd bounce around in the mid/high 40s from the field, and low 40s from 3 while getting a slight uptick in playmaking and free throw rate going forward from that time. But he's still yet to match that year statistically, and seemed to regress in all areas... and most importantly, the areas he needed to take the next step as a player... those areas, he got noticeably worse. He can be great at times, but he needs to be more consistent in impacting the game outside of just hitting shots.

I guess, as a Blazer fan, he's earning back some respect and belief with me in this playoff run. In this playoff run, when his shot isn't falling, he's been passing the ball much better, and he's also been rebounding better. He's been mostly on in the playoffs though. What's frustrating is CJs lack of playmaking and setting up of teammates when he's not hitting his shots.

I mean, we see it this playoffs... CJ is capable of getting penetration, he absolutely MUST learn to pass out of drives better to truly take his game to the level it's capable of being at. I've given up on increasing his free throw rate. I've accepted it's just not really the way he plays. But there's no reason that he can't be averaging 4-5 assists a game with how much he has the ball, and how he's able to get around defenders.

IDK with CJ. I'd say to keep him until his contract's about up because he plays well in the playoffs, but he can really drag down the Blazers during the regular season, and it feels like he'd truly be best utilized in a supersub Lou Williams role on most regular season nights.

He averaged 21/4/3 and ranks well in all impact stats how the hell could anyone argue he hurt the team in the regular season?

Does he? His RPM is pretty mediocre... His BPM has him as basically an average player. Where are his highly rated "impact" stats. He's a scorer, who when he's on makes Portland's offense as good as any. when he's off, he almost singlehandedly sinks the team. He soaks up a lot of shots, and at least during the regular season passes up good setup passes for difficult shots. When he's on, he looks like an all-star, when he's off... he looks like Jamal Crawford on his bad nights.

I'm a Portland fan... probably watched about 65+ games this year of the team. CJ's okay. He's been big this playoffs, but it was a bad year for him in the regular season. There were A LOT more games this year than people would like to admit where CJ was just a sieve on defense, and chucking bad shot after bad shot, and not using his ability to penetrate to get other players looks. When CJ is at his worst, he's a disaster on defense, and a blackhole on offense.

2 years ago, CJ at his worst was a rare occurrence. This year, it felt like a 50/50 proposition going into each game. Were you gonna get the guy who took the offense into elite territory, or the guy that you were begging Stotts to bench for a quarter. He's literally been good CJ almost all playoffs... my tune will quickly change to being back in full support mode if he can carry his play from these playoffs into next year, and play smarter, more under control, and with more versatility when he inevitably has the nights his shot isn't money.

[E-Balla]

Hmmm... It's difficult. I want to believe in CJ. 2 years ago, I thought he'd make a leap. 23ppg on 48% from the field, and 42% from 3 was incredible. I thought he'd bounce around in the mid/high 40s from the field, and low 40s from 3 while getting a slight uptick in playmaking and free throw rate going forward from that time. But he's still yet to match that year statistically, and seemed to regress in all areas... and most importantly, the areas he needed to take the next step as a player... those areas, he got noticeably worse. He can be great at times, but he needs to be more consistent in impacting the game outside of just hitting shots.

I guess, as a Blazer fan, he's earning back some respect and belief with me in this playoff run. In this playoff run, when his shot isn't falling, he's been passing the ball much better, and he's also been rebounding better. He's been mostly on in the playoffs though. What's frustrating is CJs lack of playmaking and setting up of teammates when he's not hitting his shots.

I mean, we see it this playoffs... CJ is capable of getting penetration, he absolutely MUST learn to pass out of drives better to truly take his game to the level it's capable of being at. I've given up on increasing his free throw rate. I've accepted it's just not really the way he plays. But there's no reason that he can't be averaging 4-5 assists a game with how much he has the ball, and how he's able to get around defenders.

IDK with CJ. I'd say to keep him until his contract's about up because he plays well in the playoffs, but he can really drag down the Blazers during the regular season, and it feels like he'd truly be best utilized in a supersub Lou Williams role on most regular season nights.

He averaged 21/4/3 and ranks well in all impact stats how the hell could anyone argue he hurt the team in the regular season?

Does he? His RPM is pretty mediocre...

That's a boxscore stat not an impact stat.

His BPM has him as basically an average player.

Ditto.

Where are his highly rated "impact" stats.

His +/- based numbers. His on/off is a +6.7 (career high). His RAPM ranks 90th in the league (tied for 11th among SGs). His PIPM ranks 66th in the league (8th among SGs). The boxscore based numbers (BPM, RPM) extremely underrate his defense because he doesn't get steals, blocks, or rebounds, and he plays for a below average defensive team.

He's a scorer, who when he's on makes Portland's offense as good as any. when he's off, he almost singlehandedly sinks the team. He soaks up a lot of shots, and at least during the regular season passes up good setup passes for difficult shots. When he's on, he looks like an all-star, when he's off... he looks like Jamal Crawford on his bad nights.

I'm a Portland fan... probably watched about 65+ games this year of the team. CJ's okay. He's been big this playoffs, but it was a bad year for him in the regular season. There were A LOT more games this year than people would like to admit where CJ was just a sieve on defense, and chucking bad shot after bad shot, and not using his ability to penetrate to get other players looks. When CJ is at his worst, he's a disaster on defense, and a blackhole on offense.

2 years ago, CJ at his worst was a rare occurrence. This year, it felt like a 50/50 proposition going into each game. Were you gonna get the guy who took the offense into elite territory, or the guy that you were begging Stotts to bench for a quarter. He's literally been good CJ almost all playoffs... my tune will quickly change to being back in full support mode if he can carry his play from these playoffs into next year, and play smarter, more under control, and with more versatility when he inevitably has the nights his shot isn't money.

I think you're letting that fan bias get to you and you're comparing CJ to what he was in 2017 not what he is now. He had 13 games under 17 points (ignoring his last few games which came after he missed a month of action) and 20 games over 25 points this year. He's up and down but overall his level of play is consistently high.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Beal is better than all of these players, but the Wizards are terrible so nobody cares. Kinda surprised how slept on he is.

In the last 3 years CJ has averaged 22/4/3 on 56 TS%. Beal 23/4/5 on 58 TS%. In the playoffs CJ has averaged 25/5/3 on 55 TS% in the last 3 years. Beal has averaged 24/3/3 on 57 TS% in the playoffs the last 3 seasons.

Middleton and Klay included these guys are all extremely close in their level of play. Dipo is a level above them closer to Kyrie and Dame.

I think Beal has proven himself to be the best ball handler and playmaker of the bunch. He’s also played well and consistently as the second option or first. CJ And KLay haven’t had the chance to be the number one, but Beal has done it better than Oladipo or Derozen.
Nearly 26/6/5 last season on 58% ts is an impressive feat and willed that dysfunctional team to a lot more wins than they should’ve won.

[E-Balla]

Beal is better than all of these players, but the Wizards are terrible so nobody cares. Kinda surprised how slept on he is.

In the last 3 years CJ has averaged 22/4/3 on 56 TS%. Beal 23/4/5 on 58 TS%. In the playoffs CJ has averaged 25/5/3 on 55 TS% in the last 3 years. Beal has averaged 24/3/3 on 57 TS% in the playoffs the last 3 seasons.

Middleton and Klay included these guys are all extremely close in their level of play. Dipo is a level above them closer to Kyrie and Dame.

I think Beal has proven himself to be the best ball handler and playmaker of the bunch. He’s also played well and consistently as the second option or first. CJ And KLay haven’t had the chance to be the number one, but Beal has done it better than Oladipo or Derozen.
Nearly 26/6/5 last season on 58% ts is an impressive feat and willed that dysfunctional team to a lot more wins than they should’ve won.

CJ has the best handles in the league next to Kyrie and Kemba. This is an absurd opinion.

And Oladipo last year was a clear better first option than Beal this year. Indy's offense last year is better than this year's Wizards offense.

Love me some Beal though and he's the best playmaker of the bunch, but he's not a particularly good playmaker and he'd never have that role on anything but a middling offense.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

In the last 3 years CJ has averaged 22/4/3 on 56 TS%. Beal 23/4/5 on 58 TS%. In the playoffs CJ has averaged 25/5/3 on 55 TS% in the last 3 years. Beal has averaged 24/3/3 on 57 TS% in the playoffs the last 3 seasons.

Middleton and Klay included these guys are all extremely close in their level of play. Dipo is a level above them closer to Kyrie and Dame.

I think Beal has proven himself to be the best ball handler and playmaker of the bunch. He’s also played well and consistently as the second option or first. CJ And KLay haven’t had the chance to be the number one, but Beal has done it better than Oladipo or Derozen.
Nearly 26/6/5 last season on 58% ts is an impressive feat and willed that dysfunctional team to a lot more wins than they should’ve won.

CJ has the best handles in the league next to Kyrie and Kemba. This is an absurd opinion.

And Oladipo last year was a clear better first option than Beal this year. Indy's offense last year is better than this year's Wizards offense.

Love me some Beal though and he's the best playmaker of the bunch, but he's not a particularly good playmaker and he'd never have that role on anything but a middling offense.

Oladipo had one season above 20ppg and I’m not sure it was more impressive than Beals 26 besides Indiana is a good team and Washington isn’t. CJs handle is good it’s fair to say better than Beal’s, but I think he’s better off the dribble than CJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rale93lfc]

Oladipo have it all.

Def, ass, rebounding, pts.

[E-Balla]

I think Beal has proven himself to be the best ball handler and playmaker of the bunch. He’s also played well and consistently as the second option or first. CJ And KLay haven’t had the chance to be the number one, but Beal has done it better than Oladipo or Derozen.
Nearly 26/6/5 last season on 58% ts is an impressive feat and willed that dysfunctional team to a lot more wins than they should’ve won.

CJ has the best handles in the league next to Kyrie and Kemba. This is an absurd opinion.

And Oladipo last year was a clear better first option than Beal this year. Indy's offense last year is better than this year's Wizards offense.

Love me some Beal though and he's the best playmaker of the bunch, but he's not a particularly good playmaker and he'd never have that role on anything but a middling offense.

Oladipo had one season above 20ppg and I’m not sure it was more impressive than Beals 26 besides Indiana is a good team and Washington isn’t. CJs handle is good it’s fair to say better than Beal’s, but I think he’s better off the dribble than CJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CJ is literally 5th to KD, CP3, Kyrie, and Curry in FG% off the bounce the last 4 seasons. Dude was 51% on 2 point pull up jumpers this year (46% last year, 49% 2 years ago, 48% 3 years ago).

And Dipo is odd because it was only one season, but it was one season way better than all of these guys have ever played. His team was way better but that's because Dipo was way better, Indy went 0-7 in the games Dipo missed (48-27 in games he played).

[ItsPajama]

Beal is better than every last one of these dudes, WSH is just a dumpster fire at the moment

[Gooner]

Oladipo is on a tier above all of them, imo.

Oladipo had one good year, Klay is key part of this Golden State dynasty. He is the one on a tier above.

[kobyz]

CJ = Kyrie, very similar game and talent...

[Baski]

Dipo


Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)


DeRozan

I don't get it. Are you saying replacing Klay with Beal would make the Warriors any less stacked?

[Baski]

Not too long ago I had a swarm of Portland fans swear black and blue that Nurk was their 2nd best player, due to “insert niche RS stats”. Lol give me a break, CJ carried your asses out of that series.

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."

Well it's being applied for Curry and KD so it seems to be a valid theory on here at least.

[Sulico]

Dipo


Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)


DeRozan

I don't get it. Are you saying replacing Klay with Beal would make the Warriors any less stacked?

Ofcourse!

[udfa]

McCollum is an excellent scorer but mediocre on defense.
Klay is the best if your team has no need for a guy who can initiate offense but he's quite overrated on defense.
Beal is the best offensive player in this group but he's the worst defensive player.
Oladipo is the best defensive player and a good offensive player but his Injury risk is highest in this group.
DeRozan has a really nice offensive game except he can't shoot threes. His defense has improved to at least average.

I think most of the teams that made it to the semis would prefer Klay because he'll be a great fit on any offense that already has good playmakers. Teams that didn't make the playoffs should either roll the dice with Oladipo's health or roll the dice on Beal's development (which would be my choice; if Beal could improve defensively like DeRozan did, he would be the clear best player in this group).

[PKABOOICU]

I would say Beal is the most "complete" player of the 3, as in he can do a little bit of everything.
Klay is by far the best shooter and defender, but he can't create his own shot like the others listed.
McCollum is like Beal, but I'd say he's not quite as good as him. But essentially they are the same player.
Oladipo is probably hardest to judge. He's the smallest and he's a true PG/SG tweener. But I dont think he can shoot better than the above guys. He can create better than them though.
Derozan is the biggest name with the least game so he's last.

I would rate-

1.Klay
2.Beal
3.McCollum
4.Oladipo
5.Derozan

[ballup]

Injured players are disqualified to me until they are back to normal. Oladipo has had a down year, but the number of games too low to fully judge.

Beal
Klay
CJ
Demar

Beal's shooting has gone down this season, but his finishing within the paint has gone up so much that the former doesn't matter. He isn't a good defender, but still not as bad as CJ and Demar. He's a good secondary playmaker too.

Klay is the best defender out of this bunch no doubt by a wide margin. Had a down year shooting, but was still efficient. Still worst slasher and shot creator on ball.

CJ had a down year (this is a trend here I guess). Wasn't playmaking as much as he should have been. 3 went down this season, but his other areas were strong for him. Still not a good finisher at the rim. Probably has the best arsenal of moves. This playoffs has spun nicely in his favor.

Demar is the polarizing one. No 3 point shot, but the best slasher of this bunch. Worst defender hands down despite having size and strength. Best playmaker. Routinely underperforming in he playoffs hurts him although this year wasn't as bad.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[gabri3l3]

No way Oladipo is better than Klay on defense. Thompson can check bigger wings and switch on forwards, along with guarding point guard like Oladipo does. His versatility gives him a big edge over Dipo. His IQ and understanding proper rotations is also unmatched.