Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[Ghost of Kleine]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is EXACTLY the point of why Conley would have great value to us. And some may also forget that Conley has played under Monty Williams for team USA. So He'd be highly motivated for us honestly.

We're basically trading Johnson and Warren for an immense upgrade and massive future cap space for 2021. And we'd only add the Milwaukee pick as a sweetener.

It's a win for us, that we shouldn't overlook.

[grumpysaddle]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is the same dumb idea that got the Suns to sign Chandler, Dudley, Ariza and Anderson. Being an ancient vet who is paid to much isn’t going develop the young guys at all. We have already seen that. After he retires in two years the Suns are back to the point of not having a point guard.

Are you seriously comparing a player like Conley to those ancient role players? Conley isn't a role player, dude is legit still allstar material. There is nothing comparable there outside of age. All those players were years past being productive. Conley still produces. He's also a PG. PG is arguably the most important position on the court. The team needs someone to lead them, and that is usually a PG that teams turn to. Booker is the leader now, and he will be in the future, but a guy that's been around and is still productive and has seen the playoffs in recent history is more than the Suns have had in forever. They also have 30 million expiring to trade or add through free agency once they've developed and matured more to add another star level PG. And I already said, it's not my first choice, but you can do A LOT worse.

[grumpysaddle]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is EXACTLY the point of why Conley would have great value to us. And some may also forget that Conley has played under Monty Williams for team USA. So He'd be highly motivated for us honestly.

We're basically trading Johnson and Warren for an immense upgrade and massive future cap space for 2021. And we'd only add the Milwaukee pick as a sweetener.

It's a win for us, that we shouldn't overlook.

Jackson not Warren. Warren shouldn't be tossed into a trade.

[King4Day]

Hard pass. Totally ruins our cap and isn't worth it in my opinion. I like him a lot as a player, but his contract? No thanks.

I'd be looking to move Tyler Johnson's expiring contract to create more cap space to go after a free agent target and still bring back Oubre. At this point, I'd take a bag of chips for #6, Tyler Johnson and Jackson because it would mean we'd have a lot more salary to go out and be aggressive with an RFA like DLo.

I understand where you're coming from but that's a dangerous game clearing space with no guarantee you can actually land a FA. Russell could get matched at the max, other big names might not want to come to the a young team in an absolutely brutal western conference.

Conley basically caps them out for 2 years but he'd give them a good starting PG to try and get respectable. If they win some games the next 2 years then all the sudden they might look like a much better free agent destination the summer of 21 (which is a year before Ayton and Bridges need an extension). In that two years you can also work on developing Melton and Okobo or a guy they draft this year or next and hopefully you have the successor in house.

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I like Conley. But if you trade for him, you're basically saying this is our team for the next two years. Does he make us that much better? Maybe we get the 6-8th seed by his second year. I see the point you're making about not necessarily being able to attract FA's, but with Monty and Jones at the helm, I think we at least need to give it a shot. McD kept his powder dry for too long and got fired for it. All it takes is one FA to come here to really get the ball rolling. I know the Nets might match on DLo, but I gotta think that he might put some pressure on them to let him leave to come play with Book. Maybe a sign and trade gets worked out?

I'm kind of over playing it safe tbh. McD's approach was to wait wait wait and the moment never came. Sometimes you have to make the moment.

Getting Conley would be more about instilling a winning culture. We know we'll be lucky to make the playoffs with him, but we need games to be competitive so Booker and Ayton know what it feels like to be in meaningful games.
Conley isn't Ariza, Chandler, or Anderson. He can still play and he can lead our team for 2 seasons. He's a big expiring too after next season.

[King4Day]

What does everyone think it'll cost to snag Brogdon away? 25mil per? More?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hard pass. Totally ruins our cap and isn't worth it in my opinion. I like him a lot as a player, but his contract? No thanks.

I'd be looking to move Tyler Johnson's expiring contract to create more cap space to go after a free agent target and still bring back Oubre. At this point, I'd take a bag of chips for #6, Tyler Johnson and Jackson because it would mean we'd have a lot more salary to go out and be aggressive with an RFA like DLo.

I understand where you're coming from but that's a dangerous game clearing space with no guarantee you can actually land a FA. Russell could get matched at the max, other big names might not want to come to the a young team in an absolutely brutal western conference.

Conley basically caps them out for 2 years but he'd give them a good starting PG to try and get respectable. If they win some games the next 2 years then all the sudden they might look like a much better free agent destination the summer of 21 (which is a year before Ayton and Bridges need an extension). In that two years you can also work on developing Melton and Okobo or a guy they draft this year or next and hopefully you have the successor in house.

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The idea of trading say Tyler for JR Smith does create the opportunity for cap space. But you better be sure you can spend it. Because you can clear for DLo or Brogdon, but both teams will match maybe. Kemba. Kyrie. I would rather have Conley (Konley? ) than Kyrie I know that much.

Now the idea that the Suns can spend better than Conley - they are already paying Tyler and Jackson 27m or so. Adding Conley is only another 4-5m. Just would need to figure out PF. But the Suns are already spending a lot. Conley would make the team better

Great points,

Projected 2019-20 Cap Space ($109 million cap): Up to $32.6 million, less if Khris Middleton opts in. *Note: Teams often adjust their depth chart throughout the season, sometimes game by game. 2020 — Owe first-rounder (top-eight protected in 2020, unprotected in 2021) to Phoenix Suns (Eric Bledsoe).Apr 17, 2019

Conley is honestly our best and most realistic option for success this summer.

A trade of Conley for Warren/ and Johnson's expiring add up dollar for dollar perfectly. Add in the Milwaukee pick as a sweetener and it's the best offer that they're likely to see.....

Then you draft Clarke at 6. Develop him to be Marion 2.0 at the 4. And then we move Jackson to one of : New york / Sacramento/ or Indiana ( my favorite option) for cap space.

You'd then still have around 16 million in cap space after the Conley trade and moving Jackson,

to offer to a quality power forward in free agency. And then our exceptions to round out roster depth and shooters. Sign all of our free agents to only one or two year deals.

Our roster could look something like:


Conley/ Melton.

Booker/ Reddick ( midlevel exception).

Aminu/ Bridges.

Thaddeus young/ Clarke.

Ayton/ Holmes/ Theiss or Vonleh ( veterans minimum).

That's a really good starting 5 to open the season with. And likely a playoff team for sure.

[lilfishi22]

I can get on board for Conley

Expensive yes but I'm not confident DLO's and Brogdons teams won't match a max or near max deal if we offered it to them. I think Conley would be cheap and to get a guy of his caliber for cheap is something you should seriously consider

[Ghost of Kleine]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is the same dumb idea that got the Suns to sign Chandler, Dudley, Ariza and Anderson. Being an ancient vet who is paid to much isn’t going develop the young guys at all. We have already seen that. After he retires in two years the Suns are back to the point of not having a point guard.

31 is ancient???

And you are aware that he's been putting up near all star level numbers for the Grizzlies, as recently as last season. More importantly, he's not remotely close to Chandler or Ariza in terms of poor attitude and lack of character. He's a competitor.

He's also got a ton more game and skill than either Dudley or Anderson, as easily evidenced by his statistical production, even at 31.

Again, he's also led a memphis team with far less talent than us to a better record just this last season in a ridiculously tough Western conference, and also managed to drop 35 on us too when he played us.

So he obviously still competes hard, unlike what Anderson and Ariza showed us. Yes, his contract is big, but again, it's really only 2 seasons, then it expires.

Also, The reason that he's paid so much, Is in fact due to him being a great leader and floor general. Again, as evidenced by his ability to lead his mediocre team to the playoffs, and to helping them remain competitive still.

And when it expires, I could really care less whether he chooses to retire or not, as his expiring would still give us upwards of over 30 million in cap space to use in a ridiculously talented 2021 free agency.


Also, it should be fairly clear that we could have him mentor our young guards, including if we choose to draft one of Garland or White in this draft.

So it's an unreasonable assumption that we'd in any way not have a point guard going into 2021 honestly.

Again, he's our best and most realistically attainable option for our point guard needs.

[Blonde]

Glad to see people are coming around on Conley. The reason I’m in favor of it is because realistically we aren’t getting that big name F/A this year or next. So in those two years Conley would be probably our second best player (I would argue he was better than Booker last year). Yes we would be capped out in that time but we’d be capped out even if we added someone for half his salary anyway. Operating over the cap is the same whether it’s 1M over or 15M. The core is in place - Booker/Ayton/Bridges. The supplementary pieces might be in place with Oubre and Okobo/Melton. They can grow for a couple years with a stable guard rotation.

As Ghost has so kindly pointed out Conley comes off the books in two years in a deep free agency class, by which time we have hopefully had a playoff berth with inspiring performances like the Clippers or Nets did this year. We want to enter the free agency market as a competitive team, not just hoping someone sees our upside - we need to show it.

Ideally you don’t need to give up the 6th pick to get him (Mil+Tyler+TJ seems like a fair offer) so you can add a Garland/Culver/Clarke to this core, but if push came to shove I’d probably do it.

[grumpysaddle]

Glad to see people are coming around on Conley. The reason I’m in favor of it is because realistically we aren’t getting that big name F/A this year or next. So in those two years Conley would be probably our second best player (I would argue he was better than Booker last year). Yes we would be capped out in that time but we’d be capped out even if we added someone for half his salary anyway. Operating over the cap is the same whether it’s 1M over or 15M. The core is in place - Booker/Ayton/Bridges. The supplementary pieces might be in place with Oubre and Okobo/Melton. They can grow for a couple years with a stable guard rotation.

As Ghost has so kindly pointed out Conley comes off the books in two years in a deep free agency class, by which time we have hopefully had a playoff berth with inspiring performances like the Clippers or Nets did this year. We want to enter the free agency market as a competitive team, not just hoping someone sees our upside - we need to show it.

Ideally you don’t need to give up the 6th pick to get him (Mil+Tyler+TJ seems like a fair offer) so you can add a Garland/Culver/Clarke to this core, but if push came to shove I’d probably do it.

TJ is too valuable to thrown into this trade. I'd say Tyler/JJ/Mil pick is the most I'd do. Still not sure why everyone just wants to throw Warren away. His shooting wasn't a blunder this past season. If you move him, you move him for a player that will be around for a while. JJ is an idiot and it's better to get off his contract.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is EXACTLY the point of why Conley would have great value to us. And some may also forget that Conley has played under Monty Williams for team USA. So He'd be highly motivated for us honestly.

We're basically trading Johnson and Warren for an immense upgrade and massive future cap space for 2021. And we'd only add the Milwaukee pick as a sweetener.

It's a win for us, that we shouldn't overlook.

Jackson not Warren. Warren shouldn't be tossed into a trade.

I'm open to either option honestly man. But I did Warren and Johnson, Because the numbers match up even salary wise that way, And it would allow us to keep enough cap space to further improve the roster.

But the other option would probably still be doable, and even if we kept Warren, We'd only have about 5 million in cap space to try and adress our needs at the 4. As we'd still be taking back 30 million in salary, But only sending out about 25 million to Memphis.

In Jacksons contract being at- 6 million roughly.
And

Johnson's at 19 million currently.

Meaning that when we don't include Warren in the Conley trade, The 5 million difference will knock our current 9-10 million in cap space down to around 4 or 5.

So for my part, I would just rather do the trade by the numbers with it being -

Warren (11.7 million).
Johnson ( 19.3 million). = to around 31 million.

And the Milwaukee pick for -

Conley ( 30.5) million.

And then trade Jackson to New York for mario Hezonzas' expiring, which would give us extra cap space.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3kuanc7.

These moves would equate to around 16-17 million for us to again add a higher quality power forward in free agency. Thus furthering our team's progression to the point of being a playoff team possibly.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I can get on board for Conley

Expensive yes but I'm not confident DLO's and Brogdons teams won't match a max or near max deal if we offered it to them. I think Conley would be cheap and to get a guy of his caliber for cheap is something you should seriously consider

Yeah, I believe that they're sitting at around 32 million in cap space currently. Of course, that's without Middleton resigning.

But at best, IF we were able to move Jackson alone for pure space, and then convince Johnson to resign for only 10 million per,

We'd still only be sitting in the area of 25-26 million available. Warren, although a good player is key to any substantial moves we choose to make towards measurable improvement.

And I think Jones realizes that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I understand where you're coming from but that's a dangerous game clearing space with no guarantee you can actually land a FA. Russell could get matched at the max, other big names might not want to come to the a young team in an absolutely brutal western conference.

Conley basically caps them out for 2 years but he'd give them a good starting PG to try and get respectable. If they win some games the next 2 years then all the sudden they might look like a much better free agent destination the summer of 21 (which is a year before Ayton and Bridges need an extension). In that two years you can also work on developing Melton and Okobo or a guy they draft this year or next and hopefully you have the successor in house.

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I like Conley. But if you trade for him, you're basically saying this is our team for the next two years. Does he make us that much better? Maybe we get the 6-8th seed by his second year. I see the point you're making about not necessarily being able to attract FA's, but with Monty and Jones at the helm, I think we at least need to give it a shot. McD kept his powder dry for too long and got fired for it. All it takes is one FA to come here to really get the ball rolling. I know the Nets might match on DLo, but I gotta think that he might put some pressure on them to let him leave to come play with Book. Maybe a sign and trade gets worked out?

I'm kind of over playing it safe tbh. McD's approach was to wait wait wait and the moment never came. Sometimes you have to make the moment.

Getting Conley would be more about instilling a winning culture. We know we'll be lucky to make the playoffs with him, but we need games to be competitive so Booker and Ayton know what it feels like to be in meaningful games.
Conley isn't Ariza, Chandler, or Anderson. He can still play and he can lead our team for 2 seasons. He's a big expiring too after next season.

There you go again spewing all that logic and common sense....

Also great job of basically summarizing my 5 or 6 paragraphs into a simple yet eloquent point....

[Waylay13]

The thing with Conley is that he is a great PG vet, and yeah he costs a ton the next two seasons, but if all it costs is Johnson, Jackson, Bucks pick, you do it. He helps develop the youth and maybe they start winning. If it doesn't go well you have a huge expiring to trade for a disgruntled star in their prime and maybe even another role player with the size of that expiring. Conley isnt my first choice to be around for a long time, but you can do a lot worse.

This is the same dumb idea that got the Suns to sign Chandler, Dudley, Ariza and Anderson. Being an ancient vet who is paid to much isn’t going develop the young guys at all. We have already seen that. After he retires in two years the Suns are back to the point of not having a point guard.

Are you seriously comparing a player like Conley to those ancient role players? Conley isn't a role player, dude is legit still allstar material. There is nothing comparable there outside of age. All those players were years past being productive. Conley still produces. He's also a PG. PG is arguably the most important position on the court. The team needs someone to lead them, and that is usually a PG that teams turn to. Booker is the leader now, and he will be in the future, but a guy that's been around and is still productive and has seen the playoffs in recent history is more than the Suns have had in forever. They also have 30 million expiring to trade or add through free agency once they've developed and matured more to add another star level PG. And I already said, it's not my first choice, but you can do A LOT worse.

I am seriously comparing Conley to an old injury prone player who will have a hard time relating to the young players on the this team. The goal isn’t to build a playoff team it should always be to build a championship team and there is no way that Conley can be part of that team being injury prone and 31 years old with a core of 22 years.

[grumpysaddle]

This is EXACTLY the point of why Conley would have great value to us. And some may also forget that Conley has played under Monty Williams for team USA. So He'd be highly motivated for us honestly.

We're basically trading Johnson and Warren for an immense upgrade and massive future cap space for 2021. And we'd only add the Milwaukee pick as a sweetener.

It's a win for us, that we shouldn't overlook.

Jackson not Warren. Warren shouldn't be tossed into a trade.

I'm open to either option honestly man. But I did Warren and Johnson, Because the numbers match up even salary wise that way, And it would allow us to keep enough cap space to further improve the roster.

But the other option would probably still be doable, and even if we kept Warren, We'd only have about 5 million in cap space to try and adress our needs at the 4. As we'd still be taking back 30 million in salary, But only sending out about 25 million to Memphis.

In Jacksons contract being at- 6 million roughly.
And

Johnson's at 19 million currently.

Meaning that when we don't include Warren in the Conley trade, The 5 million difference will knock our current 9-10 million in cap space down to around 4 or 5.

So for my part, I would just rather do the trade by the numbers with it being -

Warren (11.7 million).
Johnson ( 19.3 million). = to around 31 million.

And the Milwaukee pick for -

Conley ( 30.5) million.

And then trade Jackson to New York for mario Hezonzas' expiring, which would give us extra cap space.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3kuanc7.

These moves would equate to around 16-17 million for us to again add a higher quality power forward in free agency. Thus furthering our team's progression to the point of being a playoff team possibly.

I just think at this point you have to attach Jackson with other assets to get something positive in return. You'll get more back straight up for Warren on his own if you must trade him, but really, he'd be outstanding as instant offense if he accepted a 6th man role. I just don't see the urgency in getting rid of him to get rid of his contract. For his production, he's on a great deal. There's other pieces you can move first, IMO.

[grumpysaddle]

This is the same dumb idea that got the Suns to sign Chandler, Dudley, Ariza and Anderson. Being an ancient vet who is paid to much isn’t going develop the young guys at all. We have already seen that. After he retires in two years the Suns are back to the point of not having a point guard.

Are you seriously comparing a player like Conley to those ancient role players? Conley isn't a role player, dude is legit still allstar material. There is nothing comparable there outside of age. All those players were years past being productive. Conley still produces. He's also a PG. PG is arguably the most important position on the court. The team needs someone to lead them, and that is usually a PG that teams turn to. Booker is the leader now, and he will be in the future, but a guy that's been around and is still productive and has seen the playoffs in recent history is more than the Suns have had in forever. They also have 30 million expiring to trade or add through free agency once they've developed and matured more to add another star level PG. And I already said, it's not my first choice, but you can do A LOT worse.

I am seriously comparing Conley to an old injury prone player who will have a hard time relating to the young players on the this team. The goal isn’t to build a playoff team it should always be to build a championship team and there is no way that Conley can be part of that team being injury prone and 31 years old with a core of 22 years.

Building a championship team is a series of steps. Unless you luck out like the Celtics did before they won that championship by having stars group up and decide to come to your team, you're looking at a process. You don't go from last in the West (or the league) to championship contender without some steps in between.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Suns mentioned as a destination. Johnson, Josh, and bucks pick was what proposed. That would be fine by me.


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That's the exact deal I threw out....if that is it, it's a no brainer. Gambo talks about his contract, like paying Josh and Tyler are not just as bad the first year (obviously a lot worse), and then next year's free agency isn't much of a class, so having him one more year is fine, especially if we can nab a rookie PG in the deep class next year.

The only issue I might have is if he wouldn't want to be here. But he'd really be a solid vet PG for this young squad if he wanted to play in Phx...in some way better than many of the others people prefer for next year, because he doesn't require a lot of shots and is just a solid player who steps up in bigger games.

[bwgood77]

Hard pass. Totally ruins our cap and isn't worth it in my opinion. I like him a lot as a player, but his contract? No thanks.

I'd be looking to move Tyler Johnson's expiring contract to create more cap space to go after a free agent target and still bring back Oubre. At this point, I'd take a bag of chips for #6, Tyler Johnson and Jackson because it would mean we'd have a lot more salary to go out and be aggressive with an RFA like DLo.

I understand where you're coming from but that's a dangerous game clearing space with no guarantee you can actually land a FA. Russell could get matched at the max, other big names might not want to come to the a young team in an absolutely brutal western conference.

Conley basically caps them out for 2 years but he'd give them a good starting PG to try and get respectable. If they win some games the next 2 years then all the sudden they might look like a much better free agent destination the summer of 21 (which is a year before Ayton and Bridges need an extension). In that two years you can also work on developing Melton and Okobo or a guy they draft this year or next and hopefully you have the successor in house.

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I like Conley. But if you trade for him, you're basically saying this is our team for the next two years. Does he make us that much better? Maybe we get the 6-8th seed by his second year. I see the point you're making about not necessarily being able to attract FA's, but with Monty and Jones at the helm, I think we at least need to give it a shot. McD kept his powder dry for too long and got fired for it. All it takes is one FA to come here to really get the ball rolling. I know the Nets might match on DLo, but I gotta think that he might put some pressure on them to let him leave to come play with Book. Maybe a sign and trade gets worked out?

I'm kind of over playing it safe tbh. McD's approach was to wait wait wait and the moment never came. Sometimes you have to make the moment.

6 seed? We are so far behind the 14th seed right now that we just need progress. If we get Conley and he maintains similar production and we don't make the playoffs, but get better, I don't think one can reasonably make an assumption that another PG who may have been available would have provided better results. The pt differential between the top Warriors team and 13th place Lakers team was 8.2. We trailed the Lakers by 7.6.

We were WAY behind the rest of the west. A lot of that has to do with personnel movement, injuries and youth, but we are a long ways off from the playoffs based on this past year. If we can just be really competitive that will be a big start on the road to the team gaining confidence. It will still be tough with our current personnel without a lot of improvements, but we need someone to help them out and who's led a team in the playoffs if we can get it.

[jredsaz]

Yeah, I'd do that but I don't think Orlando would. They seem high on AG and are also big on wingspan, particular types of players...neither of TJ/JJ have that.

I agree but it would depend on who was available at #6 and if he fit that profile. TJ in particular, is useful as a rotation piece regardless of wingspan. Josh is basically a flyer at this point. Looking at the measurements Hunter is the prospect that fits the profile. Culver, Garland, and White do not. PJ Washington does as well and I suspect he climbs draft boards as the draft approaches.

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Yeah, when I was thinking about it I was thinking they would want Hunter with that pick. But they had a good thing going and did well playing Isaac and Gordon together and Gordon is kind of their star so I'd be surprised if they did that, especially for 3 SFs.

Well Gordon wasnt their guy and isnt an influx of more traditional wings exactly what they are looking for? Hunter fits their profile and Warren provides a really needed scorer. I think they are a better team for it if Bamba can come back.

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[jredsaz]

I would eat his salary if they add Grant. Love Grant next to Ayton.

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Love grants fit too. Mentioned earlier I'd be 100% fine trading 6 for Grant.

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Tyler Josh and 6 for Shroeder and Grant?

I was kicking something like this around. I dont think they do that. Too much salary. I think you agree to a seriously cap saving move to be executed in July. Either renegotiate Johnson or stretch him.

I think #6 and Warren for Grant, Schroder and a future first is the preferable offer. Possibly take on Patterson as well or swap picks this year.

I love Grant and think he pairs perfectly next to Ayton, Booker, Oubre and Bridges.

Still need to find a point guard but another future first and Schroders expiring gives you options in 2020.

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