Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[SuperSunsFan]

as the success we had while having a healthy Tyler Johnson at the point shown with a ball dominating player like Booker at shooting guard it is better for us to complement his skill set with a two way big guard who can handle, and play both on or off the ball with great efficiency. Culver just makes the most sense, not only is he the BPA after the big three and he plays like an rich man's Tyler Johnson whom all we thought complemented Booker real well. Keep the pick, I am happy with taking whomever left of the trio (Clarke, Culver or Hunter)

[WeekapaugGroove]

Definitely a lot of possabilities to be sure I think.

And at that point, If that were to happen, Then honestly, good for Conley. And I would then of course look at Lowry( But mainly for his expiring contract)

But with respect to Memphis, I honestly doubt that they'd be willing to take Hayward's 30 million at back, As their looking to go young and rebuild around picks and cap space.

And even though getting their pick back would be very tempting, I really believe that IF Boston misses out on Davis, AND Kyrie Irving does leave( he's definitely leaving!!!). They'll go in this direction.

A scenario that I think people haven't really considered yet! And that is......

That they'll use some of those picks and a player or two for Beal honestly.

For Beal, They'd offer something like:

The Sacramento kings pick/ the Memphis pick/ and Tatum/ Smart/ And a future Boston unprotected first.


If it's between Lowry and Conley, Then I'd honestly prefer Conley. As Lowry is already 33 yrs old.

Also Lowry also is said to have a somewhat sour and abrasive attitude. And he has yet to prove that he is close to the leader that Conley is, And has slightly worse stats than Conley too.


So with respect to those factors, I just don't feel that he's the right type of leader for our young team.


But having said that, His contract is definitely shorter, And even though he'd expire in 2020. The free agency in 2020 is fairly lousy.

The only players that are worth signing are unfortunately restricted too, For instance.........


- Ben Simmons ( restricted) would we offer a full max and hope that they don't match???

- Jamal Murray ( restricted) the same as above???

- Buddy Hield( Restricted).

- Anthony Davis( Player option). But at that point, Wouldn't he just either head to LA or New York???

Now if A.D. was willing to give us an early indication that he would sign with us, Then I'd definitely look at Lowry in order to clear space for him.

But not unless he indicated as such.

Memphis and any other small market rebuilding team shouldn't worry about cap space early in a rebuild. All that happens in FA for a bad small market is you end up overpaying some medicore player because you feel like you have to spend it. They should take the bad contracts with assets attached instead.

If Kyrie leaves I could absolutely see them be willing to take heyward plus their pick back for Conley. He's actually a decent gamble because if he gets healthier he could actually turn into a positive asset at the deadline or next summer.

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The reason that I say they wouldn't want to take back Hayward, Is because they want to rebuild, and EVEN with getting their pick back in a trade, they want to be worse, So they can get a higher pick in a much better draft.

And moving Conley for young players, Not Hayward helps them do that.

Pick back or not, Hayward when combined with Morant /Jackson Jr. And Valuncias would make them just medoicre enough to miss out on a really high prospect next year.

Again, They can indeed make the offer, But I don't see the Grizzlies taking it. Also, I could more realistically see them pursuing Beal with their assets if Irving leaves and Davis doesn't happen.

Just my opinion on it.

Ok I get what you're saying but I have a much lower opinion of current heyward. He had a decent little stretch late season but was bad prior to that and really sucked in the playoffs. But actually if he did play well to start next season they could simply trade him and getting assets for him would make up for the added few wins he might produce. It's kind of a no lose because if he sucks it helps the tank and if he's good he adds assets via trade. Or if he's good they could simply keep him and if he likes it there maybe he's part of the rebuild and it speeds it up.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

as the success we had while having a healthy Tyler Johnson at the point shown with a ball dominating player like Booker at shooting guard it is better for us to complement his skill set with a two way big guard who can handle, and play both on or off the ball with great efficiency. Culver just makes the most sense, not only is he the BPA after the big three and he plays like an rich man's Tyler Johnson whom all we thought complemented Booker real well. Keep the pick, I am happy with taking whomever left of the trio (Clarke, Culver or Hunter)

If I was confident this is how they would try to develop Culver I'm all for taking him. If they want to play him as more of a traditional wing I'm less so because I like Bridges more in that role and I think Oubre is coming back so it's crowded.

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[SuperSunsFan]

as the success we had while having a healthy Tyler Johnson at the point shown with a ball dominating player like Booker at shooting guard it is better for us to complement his skill set with a two way big guard who can handle, and play both on or off the ball with great efficiency. Culver just makes the most sense, not only is he the BPA after the big three and he plays like an rich man's Tyler Johnson whom all we thought complemented Booker real well. Keep the pick, I am happy with taking whomever left of the trio (Clarke, Culver or Hunter)

If I was confident this is how they would try to develop Culver I'm all for taking him. If they want to play him as more of a traditional wing I'm less so because I like Bridges more in that role and I think Oubre is coming back so it's crowded.

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we have too many wings already, if Culver is available and we take him we will definitely put him in that Joe Johnson role and develop him that way. Culver is too good to be passed by both the lakers and Cavs though.

[Crives]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

[WeekapaugGroove]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

That'd definitely be an exciting lineup man!!! NIIIICCCEE!!!...

[Crives]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

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I think he can, and with the Conley to Miami rumor I could see interest in a trade like this.

A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first (Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.). However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

[WeekapaugGroove]

My realistic offseason plan

1. Draft Coby White and Mfiondu
2. Trade Tyler + Milwaukee 1st for Dragic
3. Sign Aminu, Kleber or Vonleh, to 3 yrs at 10.5m per
4. Sign Oubre to 5 yrs 70m total with declining salary
5. Sign Holmes to 3 yr 15m total
6. Sign Bender to MLE
7. Sign Crawford to vet min
8. Try to trade Jackson at trade deadline after giving him chance to increase his value

C - Ayton/Holmes/Mfiondu
PF - (Aminu, Kleber, of Vonleh)/Bender/Mfiondu
SF - Oubre/Warren/Jackson
SG - Book/Bridges/Crawford
PG - Dragic/Coby/Melton

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

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I think he can, and with the Conley to Miami rumor I could see interest in a trade like this.

A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first (Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.). However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Ahh right on dude, I had that wrong. Definitely makes it easier to get dragic if that's something they would want to do.

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[Crives]

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I think he can, and with the Conley to Miami rumor I could see interest in a trade like this.

A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first (Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.). However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Ahh right on dude, I had that wrong. Definitely makes it easier to get dragic if that's something they would want to do.

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It would be a pretty funny trade, but I would love to get the spur killer for a trade like this (hold onto Warren and Jackson)

We could tell Dragic we fd up with mcD but want you to retire here. Could give him a smaller long term contract next season to be a key bench player when White is ready to start

[Qwigglez]

Pass on Dragic. I was all over getting him last summer when we had just hired his coach, but now it's an easy pass. He has a lot more mileage on his body than Mike Conley. His FG% last year was the worst he's had since his rookie year. Dragic is a 2nd to last resort to me. Go after Conley (or Jrue), DLo, Irving, Collison, Walker, Beverly. I'd put Dragic, in the same category as Rubio, Dunn. Ahead of Schroder, IT.

[Revived]

Spoiler:

You know it's a boring off-season when the most discussions on Suns boards are about :

- expensive, not fitting age-wise, not wanting to play here, neither the GM wants such player here in Conley
- most likely an energy guy off the bench in Clarke

Let's hope something interesting happens on draft night.

A lot of people keep saying this, yet when we signed Nash in 2004 he joined a very young Suns squad. Nash was 30 years old, and came to a team with a very young nucleus. Marion being our most experienced quality player having played 5 years. Amare with two years under his belt, Barbosa with one year, Joe Johnson with 3 years, and having signed Quentin Richardson also that summer coming off his rookie contract (4 years of experience). We had Bo Outlaw as our veteran with 11 years of experience, and ended up signing veteran Jim Jackson halfway through the year too.
I'm sure if we traded for Conley we could sell him on the vision of being the team leader as Nash was to our players in 2004-05. He could be disgruntled coming here, but on the flip side he might also welcome the opportunity.


*Compared to our current core players:
Booker (4 years)
Ayton (1 year)
Bridges (1 year)
Oubre (4 years)
Warren (5 years)

I think way too many people have this mentality that we should only trade for star players in their mid to early 20s. I don't think many realize that those type of players are usually not on the trade block.

Conley might not be the starting PG of the next contending Suns team and that's okay because all he really needs to be is a good bridge PG for whoever we draft whether it's this year or next year as the future PG.

Conley has a great work ethic and by all reports is a fantastic teammate. He's at worst an average starting caliber PG currently so the fact he can get a "mentor" type player who can actually play good minutes is a bonus.

Good defender, can shoot, and can pass. Age and injury history is obviously an issue/risk but that's why we don't have to trade Booker for him and we can trade small pieces instead.

[Ghost of Kleine]

FYI Johnson can't be traded back to Miami for a year. You'd have to find a 3rd team to make that deal.

I'm not sure I'd give up that bucks pick for a year of Goran. I know he was hurt last year so maybe that slowed him down but I didn't think he looked good when he was actually out there.

I don't mind you're other moves. Love the idea of grabbing Aminu.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I think he can, and with the Conley to Miami rumor I could see interest in a trade like this.

A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first (Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.). However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Ahh right on dude, I had that wrong. Definitely makes it easier to get dragic if that's something they would want to do.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

If they were willing to take Johnson back for Dragic, Something like this:

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7197083 . I'd have them include their 13th pick in exchange for our 32nd pick and the Milwaukee pick.

Then I'd draft Clarke at 6, and Nickiel Alexander Walker at 13.

Clarke Comp- Paul Milsapp/ Siakim/ Humphries.

Walker comp- Brogdon/ Tyler Johnson/ Shai.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

You know it's a boring off-season when the most discussions on Suns boards are about :

- expensive, not fitting age-wise, not wanting to play here, neither the GM wants such player here in Conley
- most likely an energy guy off the bench in Clarke

Let's hope something interesting happens on draft night.

A lot of people keep saying this, yet when we signed Nash in 2004 he joined a very young Suns squad. Nash was 30 years old, and came to a team with a very young nucleus. Marion being our most experienced quality player having played 5 years. Amare with two years under his belt, Barbosa with one year, Joe Johnson with 3 years, and having signed Quentin Richardson also that summer coming off his rookie contract (4 years of experience). We had Bo Outlaw as our veteran with 11 years of experience, and ended up signing veteran Jim Jackson halfway through the year too.
I'm sure if we traded for Conley we could sell him on the vision of being the team leader as Nash was to our players in 2004-05. He could be disgruntled coming here, but on the flip side he might also welcome the opportunity.


*Compared to our current core players:
Booker (4 years)
Ayton (1 year)
Bridges (1 year)
Oubre (4 years)
Warren (5 years)

I think way too many people have this mentality that we should only trade for star players in their mid to early 20s. I don't think many realize that those type of players are usually not on the trade block.

Conley might not be the starting PG of the next contending Suns team and that's okay because all he really needs to be is a good bridge PG for whoever we draft whether it's this year or next year as the future PG.

Conley has a great work ethic and by all reports is a fantastic teammate. He's at worst an average starting caliber PG currently so the fact he can get a "mentor" type player who can actually play good minutes is a bonus.

Good defender, can shoot, and can pass. Age and injury history is obviously an issue/risk but that's why we don't have to trade Booker for him and we can trade small pieces instead.

It's a no-brainer if we aren't giving up significant assets and keeping Booker, Ayton, Bridges, and Warren. I'm really tired of getting over-the-hill players who don't care anymore. Conley doesn't strike me as that kind of player or else he would haven't played as well as he did last season.

We keep sitting on our hands long enough and we'll end up pooping on them again.

[bwgood77]

can anyone fill me in on why is Garland considered a better prospect than White? White is more intriguing to me on paper for simply having much better size, been able to stay healthy so far and being not a Klutch client. Both have a scorer mentality but White had a whole season to prove he could be a capable Jamal Murry type lead guard that Garland wasn't able to yet due to injury. Feel that White is the you know what you get type like TJ, Murray and Buddy Hield but Garland is the high risk high gain type like JJ, Bender and Chriss and since going after those high risk high reward types have not been working out for suns so far maybe we should take a little approach this time and get the more sure things in White or Clarke

He was the #1 rated PG in the 2018 class going into college.

Out of all the high school Point Guards, he was rated as the best. He was so good that even though he only played 5 games in college before getting injured he STILL is a top 5 pick and above all other PG's not named Ja.

but i have read from somewhere that his ability of successfully running a team still hasn't been proven and he only averaged 2 point something assists in the five games he played...

Yeah, his weaknesses would be distributing and defense.

[bwgood77]

as the success we had while having a healthy Tyler Johnson at the point shown with a ball dominating player like Booker at shooting guard it is better for us to complement his skill set with a two way big guard who can handle, and play both on or off the ball with great efficiency. Culver just makes the most sense, not only is he the BPA after the big three and he plays like an rich man's Tyler Johnson whom all we thought complemented Booker real well. Keep the pick, I am happy with taking whomever left of the trio (Clarke, Culver or Hunter)

If I was confident this is how they would try to develop Culver I'm all for taking him. If they want to play him as more of a traditional wing I'm less so because I like Bridges more in that role and I think Oubre is coming back so it's crowded.

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I started a thread about a Booker/Culver pairing on the draft board a couple months ago just to get general fans takes then. I was probably slightly higher on Culver then though I still like him. If he shot like 40% from 3 I'd really like him.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1820197

I actually started a similar thread last year there about Booker and Bridges, back when I thought we might get a pick in the 5-8 range

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1661738

[carey]

New York gets-

Josh Jackson/ a 2021 top 8 protected first/ and the Milwaukee pick. ( They add the picks to their trade package).

New Orleans gets-

RJ Barrett/ Dennis Smith Jr/ Mitchell Robinson/ TJ Warren ( Phoenix) / 2021 top 8 protected first ( Phoenix)/ Milwaukee bucks pick ( Phoenix)/ 2 firsts ( Dallas).

Phoenix gets-

Lance Thomas - 7 million ( only guaranteed 1 million IF released by July 1st).
Mario Hezonza (6.5 million expiring).

Basically the suns save 12.5 million right off the bat, post trade. Then we renegotiate Johnson's deal to 40/4.

So If we can do this, We'd theoretically have around 22-23 Million plus our exceptions for free agency, Whilst still keeping Johnson as our backup guard for depth, And our pick.

Did I miss something or are you suggesting we trade two first rounders, TJ and JJ for cap space?

[Blonde]

New York gets-

Josh Jackson/ a 2021 top 8 protected first/ and the Milwaukee pick. ( They add the picks to their trade package).

New Orleans gets-

RJ Barrett/ Dennis Smith Jr/ Mitchell Robinson/ TJ Warren ( Phoenix) / 2021 top 8 protected first ( Phoenix)/ Milwaukee bucks pick ( Phoenix)/ 2 firsts ( Dallas).

Phoenix gets-

Lance Thomas - 7 million ( only guaranteed 1 million IF released by July 1st).
Mario Hezonza (6.5 million expiring).

Basically the suns save 12.5 million right off the bat, post trade. Then we renegotiate Johnson's deal to 40/4.

So If we can do this, We'd theoretically have around 22-23 Million plus our exceptions for free agency, Whilst still keeping Johnson as our backup guard for depth, And our pick.

Did I miss something or are you suggesting we trade two first rounders, TJ and JJ for cap space?

I love this because cap space is literally useless unless we are using it on a good player who we are fairly certain we will actually sign. I wouldn’t be against trading firsts to open up room for Kyrie or KD but if all we’re going to do is get a few mid level guys it’s not the right move. That’s a prime Vlade Divac move.

[Revived]

Why would we need to trade picks in order to trade Jackson or Warren? There’s no way either of those are seen as bad contracts or even close. Both players have some value at least especially Warren.

[Revived]

It’s crazy to think how much money Malcolm Brogdon has made himself with his play in the playoffs. He’s easily getting maxed now. And he’s worth it too cause he’s such a crazy high IQ basketball player who plays within the offense and doesn’t try to outdo himself.