Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, Sixerscan, Foshan, sixers hoops
Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- Ryoga Hibiki
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,184
- And1: 6,576
- Joined: Nov 14, 2001
- Location: Warszawa now, but from Northern Italy
Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
It was reported that the Spurs requested either Ben or Joel to trade Kawhii to the Sixers.
Knowing what you know now about Kawhii actual health, but not knowing if he would resign or not, would you go back and pull the trigger?
Knowing what you know now about Kawhii actual health, but not knowing if he would resign or not, would you go back and pull the trigger?
Слава Украине!
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- Bum Adebayo
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,595
- And1: 4,009
- Joined: Apr 28, 2016
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
It is hard, Raptors knew they had no chance at a championship with the core they had, and Derozan had already peaked, there was no improvement path, so they got a likely rental for a chance at a championship. On the other hand, Simmons was a rookie and was too soon to know how much he could improve. You could get a likely rental for a chance at a championship, but also you could miss a longer window on a sustained exellence if Simmons was the next big thing in the future.
In hindsight, I would do it for Simmons. I don't see a hard worker kid who wants it enough to take the next step, but last season was too soon to know all this.
In hindsight, I would do it for Simmons. I don't see a hard worker kid who wants it enough to take the next step, but last season was too soon to know all this.
Great takes since 2024-04-20
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,487
- And1: 2,106
- Joined: Oct 13, 2018
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Yea it was a big gamble that was easier for a team like the Raptors, who was going nowhere, to make than the Sixers.
On the other hand and in hindsight trading Simmons for Kawhi would get us to the finals and possible be the favorites for the title.
Based on that i would probably have made the trade, again in hindsight.
On the other hand and in hindsight trading Simmons for Kawhi would get us to the finals and possible be the favorites for the title.
Based on that i would probably have made the trade, again in hindsight.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,824
- And1: 1,048
- Joined: Mar 24, 2014
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
If you have good info on Kawhi’s health then you trade Ben in a heart beat. If not, then neither.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Senior Mod - 76ers
- Posts: 33,683
- And1: 16,055
- Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Curious if there’s a direct correlation between people that didn’t become fans of the team until recently and being ok with giving up basically an entire career of a young star for maybe one year of a guy.
I wouldn’t trade either.
I wouldn’t trade either.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Senior Mod - 76ers
- Posts: 9,498
- And1: 3,059
- Joined: Jun 28, 2002
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
This is what I wrote yesterday in another thread:
People keep saying the Kawhi trade has been vindicated with the Raps reaching the finals. Frankly, they gave up a top 20 protected pick and Derozon, who they were going nowhere with. It was worth the gamble either way to get him and Green for such little value.
However, if you give up Ben Simmons (much more value to me than Derozon and a top 20 prot first), and Kawhi walks without us winning a championship, it would be a disaster. I’m not giving up Ben to get beat in the finals. If I’m giving up Ben, I need a championship this year or Kawhi to re-sign for it to be a good trade. Saying we could be where the Raps are doesn’t excite me. I wouldn’t mortgage the future to come in second.
With that being said, Kawhi has looked so good coming back from the injury, that I think we could have had a legit shot at winning. In hindsight, I’d prob do the deal because Kawhi has come back better than ever, but I thought the price of Ben was too high for the risk, but the price Toronto paid was a no-brainer.
People keep saying the Kawhi trade has been vindicated with the Raps reaching the finals. Frankly, they gave up a top 20 protected pick and Derozon, who they were going nowhere with. It was worth the gamble either way to get him and Green for such little value.
However, if you give up Ben Simmons (much more value to me than Derozon and a top 20 prot first), and Kawhi walks without us winning a championship, it would be a disaster. I’m not giving up Ben to get beat in the finals. If I’m giving up Ben, I need a championship this year or Kawhi to re-sign for it to be a good trade. Saying we could be where the Raps are doesn’t excite me. I wouldn’t mortgage the future to come in second.
With that being said, Kawhi has looked so good coming back from the injury, that I think we could have had a legit shot at winning. In hindsight, I’d prob do the deal because Kawhi has come back better than ever, but I thought the price of Ben was too high for the risk, but the price Toronto paid was a no-brainer.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Senior Mod - 76ers
- Posts: 9,498
- And1: 3,059
- Joined: Jun 28, 2002
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
VDT wrote:Yea it was a big gamble that was easier for a team like the Raptors, who was going nowhere, to make than the Sixers.
On the other hand and in hindsight trading Simmons for Kawhi would get us to the finals and possible be the favorites for the title.
Based on that i would probably have made the trade, again in hindsight.
I agree, but then I remember how good the Warriors really are, and not sure what our roster would have ultimately been. Do we still get Jimmy? Do we get Danny Green? Do we still have Shameet or do we get Tobias?
The price for the Sixers was really high because they only had two blue chip pieces and not much other win now talent. Conversely, Toronto gave up a similar aged player, who just isn’t as good as Kawhi. Easy decision for them.
Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,532
- And1: 1,076
- Joined: Nov 22, 2018
Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
In hindsight, I would trade Embiid in a heartbeat. Embiid’s health was worse than what kawhi could ever be.
I will probably hold simmons as kwahi can hit the 3 and won’t clog the lane.
Deadly and extremely fast small ball squad.
With Jimmy and kawhi at the wing, and Simmons’s speed bringing up the ball up, JJ as back up and Tobias as a stretch 4. This is Bucks team on steroids.
When does 6er fans realize there’s no room for a slow 7 footer anymore in the league? Let alone building a team around him....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I will probably hold simmons as kwahi can hit the 3 and won’t clog the lane.
Deadly and extremely fast small ball squad.
With Jimmy and kawhi at the wing, and Simmons’s speed bringing up the ball up, JJ as back up and Tobias as a stretch 4. This is Bucks team on steroids.
When does 6er fans realize there’s no room for a slow 7 footer anymore in the league? Let alone building a team around him....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Rookie
- Posts: 1,202
- And1: 444
- Joined: Jun 23, 2018
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
I’d trade either in a heart beat....if kawhi resigns. It’s not even a question if you can get Kawhi 3+ years. He’s an unquestioned top 5 player in the NBA, neither Jo or Ben are that.
If it’s sell our soul for 1 year of Kawhi? Ehh it’s tough. I’d probably trade Ben, but not mad that it didn’t happen either.
Still think the Spurs went the wrong route. They took the easy route because they are worried about possibly missing the playoffs for a year or 2. Instead, they’ll be stuck in purgatory of no shot of making it past the 2nd round of the playoffs with Derozan.
If it’s sell our soul for 1 year of Kawhi? Ehh it’s tough. I’d probably trade Ben, but not mad that it didn’t happen either.
Still think the Spurs went the wrong route. They took the easy route because they are worried about possibly missing the playoffs for a year or 2. Instead, they’ll be stuck in purgatory of no shot of making it past the 2nd round of the playoffs with Derozan.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- ProcessDoctor
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,033
- And1: 5,193
- Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
I still think Kawhi is setting on heading to LA, so I voted no.
2023-2024 Philadelphia 76ers:
Lowry/Melton/Payne
Maxey/Hield/Downtin
Oubre/Batum/Council
Harris/Covington/Martin
Embiid/Reed/Bamba
Lowry/Melton/Payne
Maxey/Hield/Downtin
Oubre/Batum/Council
Harris/Covington/Martin
Embiid/Reed/Bamba
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,166
- And1: 2,235
- Joined: Sep 27, 2016
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
In hindsight we should have tanked for Michael Jordan way back when.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,166
- And1: 2,235
- Joined: Sep 27, 2016
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
If Kawhi was traded... then Jimmy and Tobias probably wouldn't have been. That means a team with Kawhi and Embiid as its 2 main stars... both injury prone... both being injury managed in the 2nd half of the season. Hardly the recipe for success.
Embiid played less than half the regular season games after the all-star break. Kawhi missed like 25-30% of games post the all-star break. Team would have been lucky to have finished in the top 6.
Embiid played less than half the regular season games after the all-star break. Kawhi missed like 25-30% of games post the all-star break. Team would have been lucky to have finished in the top 6.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,824
- And1: 1,048
- Joined: Mar 24, 2014
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Simmons25 wrote:In hindsight we should have tanked for Michael Jordan way back when.
Jordan went 3rd, Barkley went 5th. Sixers also took Leon Wood 10th, while Stockton was sitting there.
Leon Wood just celebrated 22 years as an NBA referee, shows how that pick worked out. Sound about right for the Sixers.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- 76ciology
- RealGM
- Posts: 61,332
- And1: 23,516
- Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
I didnt say no (ben for kawhi) the first time i heard it.
Next train coming is Ben for AD. It’s another “go” for me.
I just don't see Ben being a top 10 player in the league. Offensively, i find his shooting to be below base rate for star wings. Defensively, he doesnt have the motor to be an all defensive team player.
And as a fan of this team than being a fan of a particular player, i dont think he is a good fit with Biid.
Next train coming is Ben for AD. It’s another “go” for me.
I just don't see Ben being a top 10 player in the league. Offensively, i find his shooting to be below base rate for star wings. Defensively, he doesnt have the motor to be an all defensive team player.
And as a fan of this team than being a fan of a particular player, i dont think he is a good fit with Biid.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- Bum Adebayo
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,595
- And1: 4,009
- Joined: Apr 28, 2016
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
76ciology wrote:I didnt say no (ben for kawhi) the first time i heard it.
Next train coming is Ben for AD. It’s another “go” for me.
I just don't see Ben being a top 10 player in the league. Offensively, i find his shooting to be below base rate for star wings. Defensively, he doesnt have the motor to be an all defensive team player.
And as a fan of this team than being a fan of a particular player, i dont think he is a good fit with Biid.
I can understand fans being hesistant about trading rookie Simmons, his potential was and still is, ridiculous. But at some point, one wants to see some of that potential being realized, you can't keep preaching "he is only 22 years old", "He will improve", he has to show something to believe he will improve, right now I see nothing.
Great takes since 2024-04-20
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- Mik317
- RealGM
- Posts: 39,300
- And1: 17,803
- Joined: May 31, 2005
- Location: In Spain...without the S
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Hindsight is 20/20.
Kawhii was and probably still is a flight risk. This was prior to Ben's second season ffs. And we still don't know what the actual deal was.
Ben may never ever improve but I think giving him one more summer to show some progress is not this weird concept many are making it out to be.
then again this is all self fufilling prophecy for many of his critics.
Kawhii was and probably still is a flight risk. This was prior to Ben's second season ffs. And we still don't know what the actual deal was.
Ben may never ever improve but I think giving him one more summer to show some progress is not this weird concept many are making it out to be.
then again this is all self fufilling prophecy for many of his critics.
#NeverGonnaBeGood
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- ProcessDoctor
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,033
- And1: 5,193
- Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Kawhi is still a flight risk. I think we did the right thing not trading for him (unless they wanted Fultz).
I'd rather take my chances on Ben improving over the next several seasons than risk being left with nothing.
I'd rather take my chances on Ben improving over the next several seasons than risk being left with nothing.
2023-2024 Philadelphia 76ers:
Lowry/Melton/Payne
Maxey/Hield/Downtin
Oubre/Batum/Council
Harris/Covington/Martin
Embiid/Reed/Bamba
Lowry/Melton/Payne
Maxey/Hield/Downtin
Oubre/Batum/Council
Harris/Covington/Martin
Embiid/Reed/Bamba
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,318
- And1: 1,811
- Joined: Jul 25, 2015
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
For one year of Kawhi?
Really? What's wrong with you, guys?
Really? What's wrong with you, guys?
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
- Stanford
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 52,146
- And1: 16,850
- Joined: Feb 07, 2005
- Location: Parts Unknown
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
lol I still can't answer this. I would have traded Ben if we had any idea that Kawhi would stay, but we don't even know if he's staying in Toronto at this point. I think I'd still say no.
Good point. It made a lot more sense for Toronto than us.
Bum Adebayo wrote:It is hard, Raptors knew they had no chance at a championship with the core they had, and Derozan had already peaked, there was no improvement path, so they got a likely rental for a chance at a championship.
Good point. It made a lot more sense for Toronto than us.
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,951
- And1: 537
- Joined: Dec 01, 2008
Re: Trade Ben/Joel for Kawhii Leonard
Our team is just fine as is,we will be in the nba finals next year,it was just a lucky
**** bounce that put us out we are better than any eastern conf.team.Just have to
keep this team together.
**** bounce that put us out we are better than any eastern conf.team.Just have to
keep this team together.