Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

itlnsunsfan · Post #1761 » by **itlnsunsfan** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 2:30 pm

I haven't watched Dinwiddie play much but his numbers are pretty underwhelming, especially his defensive stats. I think I'd rather keep the pick and go all out for Brogdon.

Crives · Post #1762 » by **Crives** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:04 pm

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TheNetsFan · Post #1763 » by **TheNetsFan** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:15 pm

Barkley6 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwoolf2 wrote:
in a second
TJ and 6 for dinwiddie and 18 could make some sense for both teams.

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I think that's an overpay, and also defeats the some of the purpose of the Nets dealing Dinwiddie, which would be to reduce committed salary. I think Brooklyn would be much happier dealing Dinwiddie into a situation where they take no or minimal money back.

Nets would do #6 for Dinwiddie in a nanosecond. I would think they'd even do Dinwiddie+#17 for #6. Obviously the deal couldn't become official until July 1st, but for the Nets, dealing Dinwiddie for #6 frees up the extra couple of million needed for a 30% max without having to pay to move or stretch Crabbe & returns a pick that likely could net a forward like Hunter or Reddish. It may open up just enough to resign Ed Davis with too. It's the ideal scenario.

matt131 · Post #1764 » by **matt131** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:22 pm

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bigfoot · Post #1765 » by **bigfoot** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:29 pm

matt131 wrote:

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Hope this is true !!

BobbieL · Post #1766 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:39 pm

bigfoot wrote:
matt131 wrote:

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Hope this is true !!

I won't say this is counter to Gambo's report as maybe the Suns do not feel Lonzo Ball is the right fit for the team. I cannot see how they think the 6th pick in this draft would be an overpay so fit

But I just am not sure what player is out there - unless its Dinwiddie - to trade the 6th pick for. Many of the PGs are Free AGents. Jrue isn't but not sure he is on the market.

I think if the Lakers get Garland at 4 - the Suns will use the 6th and Josh or the Bucks pick to get Lonzo Ball.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1767 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:47 pm

Is ball better than Rubio? Both good defenders and passers but holes in other parts of their game. Ball also has that laughable bad FT shooting.

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BobbieL · Post #1768 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:53 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Is ball better than Rubio? Both good defenders and passers but holes in other parts of their game. Ball also has that laughable bad FT shooting.

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True. Ball is not that great of a shooter and the Suns need shooters.

What if the Suns traded Tyler for JR/Zizic - could the Suns get both Rubio to play PG and a guy like Seth Curry to be the shooter and rotate in. Suns would net about 15m in the trade - a bit more if they stretched JR Smith. Rubio for 8 and Curry for 6.

I mention Ball for the 6th pick as a way to use the 6th pick for a veteran in a trade. Rubio is a FA - sure not using the 6th pick in an S&T to get him unless others are involved.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1769 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:58 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Is ball better than Rubio? Both good defenders and passers but holes in other parts of their game. Ball also has that laughable bad FT shooting.

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True. Ball is not that great of a shooter and the Suns need shooters.

What if the Suns traded Tyler for JR/Zizic - could the Suns get both Rubio to play PG and a guy like Seth Curry to be the shooter and rotate in. Suns would net about 15m in the trade - a bit more if they stretched JR Smith. Rubio for 8 and Curry for 6.

I mention Ball for the 6th pick as a way to use the 6th pick for a veteran in a trade. Rubio is a FA - sure not using the 6th pick in an S&T to get him unless others are involved.

My overall point is why burn the 6th pick on ball when you can simply sign a similar player. Now if they believe ball has a bunch of untapped potential maybe you do it because he fits the age of this group more and you have his RFA rights in two years.

IMO you're way to quick to give away the 6th pick for basically space. It's not a good draft but that's still not a good use of resources.

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sunsfever68 · Post #1770 » by **sunsfever68** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:03 pm

DinWiddie is not a dribble drive penetrator we need with the 6th pick. You need someone who can get by their man and drive and kick effectively

Lonzo Ball is that guy. Give me Lonzo, which we'd have to do in a 3 way trade with New Orleans with the Lakers getting AD most likely.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1771 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:05 pm

sunsfever68 wrote:DinWiddie is not a dribble drive penetrator we need with the 6th pick. You need someone who can get by their man and drive and kick effectively

Lonzo Ball is that guy. Give me Lonzo, which we'd have to do in a 3 way trade with New Orleans with the Lakers getting AD most likely.

Wait what? Lonzo is not and probably never will be a dribble drive PG. Dude litteraly never does that. Truly I'm not sure there's a PG in the entire league who's less of a dribble drive get by their man guy than Ball.

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BobbieL · Post #1772 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:08 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Is ball better than Rubio? Both good defenders and passers but holes in other parts of their game. Ball also has that laughable bad FT shooting.

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True. Ball is not that great of a shooter and the Suns need shooters.

What if the Suns traded Tyler for JR/Zizic - could the Suns get both Rubio to play PG and a guy like Seth Curry to be the shooter and rotate in. Suns would net about 15m in the trade - a bit more if they stretched JR Smith. Rubio for 8 and Curry for 6.

I mention Ball for the 6th pick as a way to use the 6th pick for a veteran in a trade. Rubio is a FA - sure not using the 6th pick in an S&T to get him unless others are involved.

My overall point is why burn the 6th pick on ball when you can simply sign a similar player. Now if they believe ball has a bunch of untapped potential maybe you do it because he fits the age of this group more and you have his RFA rights in two years.

IMO you're way to quick to give away the 6th pick for basically space. It's not a good draft but that's still not a good use of resources.

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I am just trying to fill the need of PG using the assets available to the Suns. This idea of trading the 6th pick for a PG is really not realistic because of the market. We have all talked about it - most of the PGs are free agents. So, to your point, yes, signing a comparable player without having to give up the pick makes sense. But also signing Rubio takes all your cap space or the MLE.

So I think if the Suns trade the 6th pick - it may be more a of a three way deal actually.

Desertfox · Post #1773 » by **Desertfox** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:23 pm

I see three potential targets for PGs with that pick (in order of preference), Jrue, Brogdon (S&T), and Dinwiddie. Jreu would require more going to New Orleans and Dinwiddie would have more coming back to the Suns. Dinwiddie + Kabengele (Nets pick) would not be a bad haul for #6.

SunsLyf3 · Post #1774 » by **SunsLyf3** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:24 pm

matt131 wrote:

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Nets want a PF to pair with Jarrett Allen. Draft whatever PF BK wants so they can S&T Russell to us lol.

SunsLyf3 · Post #1775 » by **SunsLyf3** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:30 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:TJ and 6 for dinwiddie and 18 could make some sense for both teams.

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I think that's an overpay, and also defeats the some of the purpose of the Nets dealing Dinwiddie, which would be to reduce committed salary. I think Brooklyn would be much happier dealing Dinwiddie into a situation where they take no or minimal money back.

Dinwiddie has a valuable contract though. I don't see the Nets just dumping Dinwiddie to give salary relief, but I could see them trading him for an equally valuable contract such as TJ Warren. It rids the Nets (and Suns) of redundancy on the roster.

Despite some reports that the Nets would like to pair D'Lo with Kyrie, I still think their best option is to pair Irving with Durant. I've mentioned before, but I think that report is to save face in case the Nets completely miss on free agency and just keep D'Lo around.

I do agree that TJ/#6 for Dinwiddie#18 is definitely an overpay.

Agree about the Nets part. If Kyrie and a 2nd star FA commit to BK I don't doubt for one second they would trade Russell and not Dinwiddie. Draft Clark(or whomever BK wants), offer Dloading the Max and tell BK you're willing to give them said prospect and TJ for Dloading S&T and #18.

Hypotethical BK core: Kyrie, our 1st(Clark?), 2nd star FA, Allen, TJ, Dinwiddie.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1776 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:35 pm

SunsLyf3 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:
I think that's an overpay, and also defeats the some of the purpose of the Nets dealing Dinwiddie, which would be to reduce committed salary. I think Brooklyn would be much happier dealing Dinwiddie into a situation where they take no or minimal money back.

Dinwiddie has a valuable contract though. I don't see the Nets just dumping Dinwiddie to give salary relief, but I could see them trading him for an equally valuable contract such as TJ Warren. It rids the Nets (and Suns) of redundancy on the roster.

Despite some reports that the Nets would like to pair D'Lo with Kyrie, I still think their best option is to pair Irving with Durant. I've mentioned before, but I think that report is to save face in case the Nets completely miss on free agency and just keep D'Lo around.

I do agree that TJ/#6 for Dinwiddie#18 is definitely an overpay.

Agree about the Nets part. If Kyrie and a 2nd star FA commit to BK I don't doubt for one second they would trade Russell and not Dinwiddie. Draft Clark(or whomever BK wants), offer Dloading the Max and tell BK you're willing to give them said prospect and TJ for Dloading S&T and #18.

Hypotethical BK core: Kyrie, our 1st(Clark?), 2nd star FA, Allen, TJ, Dinwiddie.

If a second max guy wants to come to Brooklyn they have to simply pull DLos qualifing offer making him a UFA.

In general trading that pick in a sign and trade is pretty much not going to happen. The draft happens 10 days before FA so it's super unlikely they will take a player out of speculation that he can be used in a sign and trade two weeks later.
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dean456 · Post #1777 » by **dean456** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:37 pm

You want Dragic and pick 13 for TJ and pick 6? :lol:

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1778 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:39 pm

dean456 wrote:You want Dragic and pick 13 for TJ and pick 6?

Personally I wouldn't and that also doesn't work cap wise.

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WeekapaugGroove · Post #1779 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:44 pm

I'm pretty good with CBA/cap stuff but here's something I was wondering about:

If the Suns used their $9M in cap space to take on a player making that in a trade would they then be able to use their full MLE or would it be the same as if they signed a guy using that space and they can only use the 'room MLE'? I think it's just the room MLE but I'm not 100% certain.

dean456 · Post #1780 » by **dean456** » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:47 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
dean456 wrote:You want Dragic and pick 13 for TJ and pick 6?
Personally I wouldn't and that also doesn't work cap wise.

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It does, Dragic's making $19,217,900 if he opts in and Tyler Johnson is making 19,245,370 next season when he opts in. Did you think I meant TJ Warren?