2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread

[Luigi]

If he doesn't play as good as he did last year... or close... why do you need him? Why do you pay 2 1sts and 35M a year for him ? If he's not close to the player he was last year, he won't change our fortunes or our ceiling much if at all...

Even a step back Conley does a lot for the team. And I think we most likely get 3 playoff runs out of him.

[Inigo Montoya]

Well, maybe you are back to tank commander Inigo!

Joke's on you, I never left!

In all seriousness, though, I think it is worth a shot to see who we can get in the next 2 seasons, what kind of roster we can build, and how far this team\core can go. But it has to be with a core that can go forward together, not be kinda-sorta good but not an actual threat for the next 2 seasons, and then be capped out with Gobert+DM and no hope for legit improvement or future avenues of improvement. We need to get that third long-term piece in the next 2 seasons. If we end up without it, and essentially have Gobert+DM on max deals with a bunch of role players that make the team the same level it is now, then you will see me saying to go ahead and blow it up, point blank, tank commander and all. And frankly, the bold move would be to do it now-ish, when we can get the most out of Gobert, since the chance of us getting that 3rd piece is so low. I really hope I'm wrong.

[Luigi]

I'm afraid that a third long term piece that makes us a contender and doesn't put us deep into repreater tax territory is impossible.

So far the choice has been Mike Conley, or running it back. Now it seems like we might downgrade from Rubio as our big summer FA move. Maybe we get lucky and land a good player. But at this point, after hearing about how many free agents are staying put and how many teams have money... my bet is that we end up with a worse roster than the Mike Conley option.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm afraid that a third long term piece that makes us a contender and doesn't put us deep into repreater tax territory is impossible.

So far the choice has been Mike Conley, or running it back. Now it seems like we might downgrade from Rubio as our big summer FA move. Maybe we get lucky and land a good player. But at this point, after hearing about how many free agents are staying put and how many teams have money... my bet is that we end up with a worse roster than the Mike Conley option.

I'm not against paying the tax for a legit contender. But the FO has yet to show it can construct one. First, build a legit contender, then we'll talk about should we or shouldn't we pay the repeater tax.

[Luigi]

I'm afraid that a third long term piece that makes us a contender and doesn't put us deep into repreater tax territory is impossible.

So far the choice has been Mike Conley, or running it back. Now it seems like we might downgrade from Rubio as our big summer FA move. Maybe we get lucky and land a good player. But at this point, after hearing about how many free agents are staying put and how many teams have money... my bet is that we end up with a worse roster than the Mike Conley option.

I'm not against paying the tax for a legit contender. But the FO has yet to show it can construct one. First, build a legit contender, then we'll talk about should we or shouldn't we pay the repeater tax.

That's not the main reason I don't think we can do it. Who is that 3rd piece going to be? I really don't see a better move than Conley. We can't get really get on the Tobias Harris radar, how are we going to get there?

[KqWIN]

https://streamable.com/twkn2

[Luigi]

Would the Nets want to keep Russell to compete now with Irving?

[KqWIN]

Would the Nets want to keep Russell to compete now with Irving?

I think they would...but Russell didn't seem to be fond of the idea. He's still a RFA, but players have forced their way out with less leverage.

[Luigi]

I just can't imagine a player forcing his way to Utah.

Who wants to max Russell, say I. Is he the young 3rd piece? He might struggle getting through the TSA in SLC's airport. But I'd like to see the attempt (both from our FO and from him).

[Rauxcee]

https://streamable.com/twkn2

Where does this leave KD? KD alone on the Knicks isn't enough. Any other top end player that would go to the Knicks? If not, does KD still go to the Knicks?

It would basically be the LeBron situation: top tier player wasting some years on young developing players, or trade young pieces for another player potentially messing with chemistry as everyone knows they are trade bait.

[Luigi]

I think Durant stays with the Warriors if he can come back and play in the series. Or if they lose. If they win with him not playing, then he leaves.

Lakers are a possibility

[SoCalJazzFan]

https://streamable.com/twkn2

Where does this leave KD? KD alone on the Knicks isn't enough. Any other top end player that would go to the Knicks? If not, does KD still go to the Knicks?

It would basically be the LeBron situation: top tier player wasting some years on young developing players, or trade young pieces for another player potentially messing with chemistry as everyone knows they are trade bait.

It would seem to me that the Knicks could probably put forth the best package for AD, and then KD and/or Kyrie join him (not the best result for the Jazz if they want DLo). There will always be an asterisk associated with KD and the Warriors.

[sipclip]

Damn this thread has turned depressing for some reason. Yeah we aren't likely to get one of the so called stars this offseason and I could care less. Give me Julius Randle at a decent price over all these guys getting insane money. Randle is the perfect player for our team. He gives us a legit 2nd scorer that I think also works really well with Gobert because he is solid passer that can create off the dribble which will lead to even more lob opportunities for Gobert. The fact that Randle can actually play heavy minutes with Gobert is a massive upgrade over Favors in my opinion. Then give me a guy like Terrance Ross who can light it up from 3pt range to provide plenty of spacing. Those are the types of players that if we actually make them a priority I think we can get them. With Randle you sell him on being that 2nd scorer and he won't be fighting for touches with Gobert. With Ross you sell him on being the starting sg which is something most other teams won't sell him on. Just adding those 2 guys to our starting lineup in place of Rubio and Favors is massive. The spacing on the court is night and day and the offensive explosiveness would be awesome to watch. Yeah we don't have a true pg but I don't think that is needed in our system Ingles and Randle both being very good passers for their position. I would put a starting lineup of Mitchell, Ross, Ingles, Randle and Gobert up against almost any team.

With the starting lineup set the bench now needs some solidifying. You have to find a replacement for Favors who is either traded or waived. As I have mentioned before I think the Hawks would have a lot of interest in Favors. In this scenario though lets say we just let him go. In this scenario I would go after Nerlens Noel as a Favors replacement at the backup 5. I think his defense oriented game fits our team while still having some untapped upside. At backup 1 I'm still firmly on the George Hill bandwagon but if not him then I take a look at Mudiay. I wish he was a better shooter but for a backup guard I can live with it. Especially if you surround him with decent shooters and a solid pick and roll big. I feel like a lineup of Mudiay, Allen, O'Neale, Crowder and Noel can hold there own against most other teams bench units which is all we need because I think that starting lineup would do a number on most teams. Then there is still the Exum factor who can't be counted on which is why we aren't relying on him but still provides the potential of bringing another aspect to the bench. I would also go after Kaminsky as a stretch big. This roster doesn't rely at all on our draft pick having to contribute but I could see plenty of guys being able to contribute some. Particularly Thybulle, Clarke, Cameron Johnson, Windler and Kabengele. All 5 of those guys I could see contributing right away.

[KqWIN]

I guess I'm kinda over the fake scenario's and plans that we know won't happen. The Jazz aren't really in a position to be making choices...well, I guess the main choice is whether or not they want to try at all. The call from ownership could very be to avoid luxury tax in the future. The Jazz have a good amount of success guaranteed with Gobert and Mitchell. They might just want to ride it out and collect lots of money.

I feel like any player that we really want, we'd be extremely fortunate to have it and it's a no brainer at that point. Even someone like Randle. It's not like we can just go out and get Randle. More likely than some of the true stars...but unlikely nonetheless. I got excited about the prospect of him awhile ago, but the reality is that the Jazz aren't choosing him over Favors. There's just no chance of that happening at all so why even get your hopes up.

You make a long scenario with a series of unlikely moves and I just can't get excited about it.

[Tom349]

I feel dirty for saying this but why aren't we exploring trades for Gobert. We talk about Favors being a useless asset as he is a 5 playing the 4 but if you opened up the 5 spot so that he could maximised his ability he wouldn't be a massive downgrade and we could better strengthen other positions. We could achieve a back court of Mitchell/Beal + draft pick if we traded Gobert, we could land Tatum and maybe Holiday in a three team trade between Utah, Boston and NOP if we were willing to use Gobert as a trade chip.

Im not saying I would trade Gobert but if you want to maximise our players value then this would be one way of doing it and would mean we're far more responsible for whatever outcome rather relying on free agents picking Utah.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm afraid that a third long term piece that makes us a contender and doesn't put us deep into repreater tax territory is impossible.

So far the choice has been Mike Conley, or running it back. Now it seems like we might downgrade from Rubio as our big summer FA move. Maybe we get lucky and land a good player. But at this point, after hearing about how many free agents are staying put and how many teams have money... my bet is that we end up with a worse roster than the Mike Conley option.

I'm not against paying the tax for a legit contender. But the FO has yet to show it can construct one. First, build a legit contender, then we'll talk about should we or shouldn't we pay the repeater tax.

That's not the main reason I don't think we can do it. Who is that 3rd piece going to be? I really don't see a better move than Conley. We can't get really get on the Tobias Harris radar, how are we going to get there?

That's the point--we probably can't find that 3rd piece. So what would be the point in wasting the cap we do have to find it on Conley for the next 2 seasons while still not being contenders during that time, and then be capped out due to Gobert and DM's new max deals, and with no feasible option to get that 3rd piece then. If Conley is the best move we have, then it's better to either not do it at all and pray we can find that 3rd piece in the next 2 seasons, as unlikely as it is, or blow it up right now when we can get the most for Gobert, and DM is still young. The absolute worst outcome to me personally would be to roll the same level of team for the next 7 seasons.

[Rauxcee]

I feel dirty for saying this but why aren't we exploring trades for Gobert.

Because when in the history of the league has a team just traded away a top 10-15 player in their prime that hasn't requested a trade, or has given any indication they are leaving? Off the top of my head I can't think of any. Are there any?

Also, you never get fair value in trades like this. Never. You get a player, or players, that aren't as good, and/or some future draft pick that could be great, could be average, could be a bust.

Unless Gobert requests a trade, or regresses severely, it's asinine to trade him. I get thinking behind it, I do, but it's not realistic. It's not smart. You aren't getting a player near as good as him in return, and you are gambling on a future draft pick being great player, when that player doesn't even exist right now.

[KqWIN]

We should be open to trading anyone for something that makes us better...but it's very hard to get fair value out of Rudy. He's a top 10-15 player who will sign for another 5 years. We're talking 7 years in total. We only have 6-7 years of Donovan left.

I get why people are infatuated with rebuilding. It gives you hope. You get to believe in the idea that things are eventually going somewhere great. But the whole point of rebuilding is to get players like Gobert and Donovan and then build around them. If we trade Gobert, what's next? We rebuild and then get prepared to trade Donovan later down the road to do it all again?

Rudy on his own is going to give you about 40 wins. If Donovan improves, you've got years and years of playoff runs and 50ish seasons ahead. It's easy to sit on your coach and say that's not good enough...but I don't think that's in alignment with how the real decision makers think. That means a lot. Some teams build up for a decade and can't even get one of those seasons.

[stitches]

I feel dirty for saying this but why aren't we exploring trades for Gobert. We talk about Favors being a useless asset as he is a 5 playing the 4 but if you opened up the 5 spot so that he could maximised his ability he wouldn't be a massive downgrade and we could better strengthen other positions. We could achieve a back court of Mitchell/Beal + draft pick if we traded Gobert, we could land Tatum and maybe Holiday in a three team trade between Utah, Boston and NOP if we were willing to use Gobert as a trade chip.

Im not saying I would trade Gobert but if you want to maximise our players value then this would be one way of doing it and would mean we're far more responsible for whatever outcome rather relying on free agents picking Utah.

IMO it's extremely hard to just explore trading Gobert. I think if you decide to explore the trades you have to actually be ready and determined to trade him... the reason - other teams leak. I'm almost certain that even 'exploratory talks' about trading Gobert will end up on Woj or Shams' twitter feed. It always happens... it happened with Favors, it happened with Rubio...it just happens. Other teams actually have incentive to publicize those talks and screw up the team on the other side. Just look at what happened with both LAL and NOP after the trade deadline. IMO if you let this one leak(and again - it will leak), you cannot go back, it poisons the relationship too much. You have to actually pull the trigger at the end, because otherwise you will just lose Gobert's trust just like we lost Rubio's trust and he will bolt the first chance he gets. With Rubio it's not a huge deal because it is somewhat mutual separation, but with Gobert, the loss will be enormous.

i don't know how I feel about it in general. If we can get a major piece that's closer to Mitchell's timeline, I wouldn't be totally opposed to doing it, but again - I think it will be extremely tricky entering those waters and it has the potential to backfire spectacularly.

[sipclip]

I guess I'm kinda over the fake scenario's and plans that we know won't happen. The Jazz aren't really in a position to be making choices...well, I guess the main choice is whether or not they want to try at all. The call from ownership could very be to avoid luxury tax in the future. The Jazz have a good amount of success guaranteed with Gobert and Mitchell. They might just want to ride it out and collect lots of money.

I feel like any player that we really want, we'd be extremely fortunate to have it and it's a no brainer at that point. Even someone like Randle. It's not like we can just go out and get Randle. More likely than some of the true stars...but unlikely nonetheless. I got excited about the prospect of him awhile ago, but the reality is that the Jazz aren't choosing him over Favors. There's just no chance of that happening at all so why even get your hopes up.

You make a long scenario with a series of unlikely moves and I just can't get excited about it.

One of the main points of message boards is to talk about fake scenarios. Yeah I don't trust the jazz front office to make many bold moves but the only way to maintain excitement is to dream about these scenarios. No reason to be a buzz kill about it. If we had people talking about getting Durant and Kawhi then I would agree that it is a waste of time but most of us are talking about at least somewhat feasible opportunities. Yeah they probably won't happen but that isn't the point of a message board.