Jalen Rose bout to get fired for telling the truth.

[Lockdown]

he was going to blow that achilles the next time he played whether it was that game, this summer, or preseason next year. you don't compromise the achilles and then 8 weeks later its still effed and have nonsurgical rest type options to fix it. he was going to have to surgically repair that thing regardless. its like partial tears to acls…. if 2 months later its still effed then a full reconstruction is whats happening if youre a pro athlete. try playing on it and no matter how much rest you got then that thing is eventually going to go if you never had surgery.

its good he played and the rehab process starts this summer. my guess is this thing would have lingered and lingered and lingered and the first time he went on it then boom then

To the best of anyone's knowledge the injury was to his calf. There is no reason at this time to question experts in their field on what was injured.

The whole world saw the ice on his ankle, not his calf. He grabbed his ankle when he went down. There’s zero chance they were being completely honest.

[Middle Child]

If he doesn’t get hurt again this isn’t a story.

The media in general is never concerned with the games, only the narratives.

That’s why the story over the playoffs has been about free agency and injuries rather than actually games.

KD did what most athletes would, he played but you honestly he loves the game and if they said he could go and he felt good so he went with it.

How much of going out a less then healthy contributed to him getting hurt? Sure if he doesn't get hurt there's nothing to say, but Jalen went on record saying he wasn't close to being ready then he plays anyways then gets hurt fairly early in the game. That to me says he shouldn't have been playing.

Not the point at all. KD wanted to be out there. If he finishes the game healthy no one blinks an eye but because he got hurt everyone is a doctor and has a take.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

To the best of anyone's knowledge the injury was to his calf. There is no reason at this time to question experts in their field on what was injured.

theres all sorts of reasons to question it. these are the same experts that cleared him to go play. stuff like this happens all the time. its called misdiagonis either to the severity or even the nature of injury or disease.

im sure his drs are looking back at his mris and asking themselves what they missed. im also sure their thinking of clues they had that they didn't consider clues considering what they know now. hindsight is a bitch...… and medicine is not exact science

There's reason perhaps if you have medical expertise. I'm guessing you don't. Speculation like this is terrible!

And as with anything, being medically cleared and not being at risk of an injury is impossible. Nobody knows when someone is completely ready to go back and that isn't what being cleared even means.

were discussing a situation after we know the outcome. of course you don't have to be trained medical to discuss it. if somebody dies of cancer and the original diagnosis was something else you don't have to medical expert to figure out there might be something up with that original diagnosis.

the guy was cleared to play because it was determined by the medical experts that he couldn't do any more permanent harm. it was determined it was his calf. 12 minutes after he tried to play..…. he blew his achilles. youd have to be nuts not to allow speculation the two were connected and that's why the whole world is doing it. the idea you need to be dr to simply raise some questions is absurd.

fwiw....I have spent my entire adult life in health related fields after playing basketball in college and then having a short professional career. ive been surrounded by situations and discussions like this my entire life including seeing specifically dozens of achilles injuries and rehabs up close and firsthand. I don't think that matters tho. id be willing to listen to anybody jot of information or theory regarding this. its a pretty big deal how wrong they had it to send him back out there and have this happen and then be surprised.

as I stated before.... based of my experience and understanding I wouldn't be surprised if this injury had become inevitable considering how fast it went after 2 months rehab. im not saying im right.... im just raising the point its possible. if he was going to need surgery after the original injury against Houston then theoretically its better it happened now then later and its better it happened trying to play in the finals then some pickup game in august. that's the point im making and if im wrong then so what

[VanWest82]

I agree with Jalen. I think the whole thing should be investigated by the league, and not just to find someone to blame. The goal coming out of this should be for it to never happen again. This was like the decision making process leading up to Chernobyl or the Challenger explosion. Everyone ignored the signs right up until the end because they were too focused on completing the goal, and it ended in disaster for everyone.

Hyperbole aside, there is no evidence of the bold at all. Until a story breaks that the GS medical staff intentionally gave KD bad information or withheld information from him, this is just a made up narrative.

Here is what most likely happened. GS medical staff cleared him to play, but lets remember clearing someone to play doesn't mean no further risk of injury. All that means is the player is medically capable to play. Chances are they cleared him, told him that he was at a higher risk of injuring himself more serious. He had his own individual doctor look at it, he most likely said the same thing. Kerr and Bob Myers probably then told KD the final decision is up to you. KD then took in all the information, weighed the potential risks vs the potential rewards and he decided on playing.

Again if we find out there were any shortcomings by the medical staff to try and get him ready, or any mischievous actions to trick KD into thinking he was in better shape than he actually was, then ya we have something to talk about. But again most likely, all the information was laid out and KD decided on taking the chance, even with knowing about all the risks. There is nothing more to it.

Here is what most likely happened based on what's been reported. KD suffered a grade 2 calf strain. Typical recovery time is 4-6 weeks before resuming physical activity. KD tried to return to a Finals game in under five weeks with almost no practice. Jalen Rose said at half time of game four that he watched KD go through a workout the day before and looked no where near ready to return. He wasn't the only one who reported that. During all of this there were whispers out of GS that people were unhappy with him being unable to return. Warriors did nothing to quiet that.

I agree KD needs to take some responsibility too. It was his decision to play but it sure doesn't sound like the Warriors were acting in his best interest. I'll be very interested to see what KD says in the coming months/years about whether he felt pressured to play or not. The fact they cleared him for game four and he obviously wasn't ready is kind of a smoking gun.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

If he doesn’t get hurt again this isn’t a story.

The media in general is never concerned with the games, only the narratives.

That’s why the story over the playoffs has been about free agency and injuries rather than actually games.

KD did what most athletes would, he played but you honestly he loves the game and if they said he could go and he felt good so he went with it.

How much of going out a less then healthy contributed to him getting hurt? Sure if he doesn't get hurt there's nothing to say, but Jalen went on record saying he wasn't close to being ready then he plays anyways then gets hurt fairly early in the game. That to me says he shouldn't have been playing.

Not the point at all. KD wanted to be out there. If he finishes the game healthy no one blinks an eye but because he got hurt everyone is a doctor and has a take.

if KD had decided he wanted to smoke cigarettes then we cant discuss it if he dies of lung cancer because if he didn't die nobody would have thought to discuss it and if he does die that's a topic for drs? what about screwing chicks with no rubber? you have to be a dr to discuss it if you get somebody pregnant or contract a disease? do you actually have to be a dr to figure out you may have done something if you see a wart on your dick or a baby is crying thru the night? do you not wonder how that might have happened or do you have to be a dr to draw those conclusion?

this notion that only drs can talk about health related stuff is modern bullsht. for thousnads of years human beings were allowed to use their lifetime of experience in an attemt to discuss or ebven diagnose and treat injury and disease. whether its a cold or the symptoms of something far more acute......grown humans are not powerless. in fact throughout history many morons with a take might have even done better than a dr would be today. maybe its not often but to say it wouldn't happen is where the naitivity occurs.

of course we can talk about health stuff. we can do math and work on cars and buy and sell houses and all sorts of things without a formal training too. medicine is just like any other thing. if you want to learn about it or talk about it there is no ban on that information being shared. just go do it. the people that don't know what theyre talking about stick out like sore thumbs medical training or not

[Duke4life831]

I agree with Jalen. I think the whole thing should be investigated by the league, and not just to find someone to blame. The goal coming out of this should be for it to never happen again. This was like the decision making process leading up to Chernobyl or the Challenger explosion. Everyone ignored the signs right up until the end because they were too focused on completing the goal, and it ended in disaster for everyone.

Hyperbole aside, there is no evidence of the bold at all. Until a story breaks that the GS medical staff intentionally gave KD bad information or withheld information from him, this is just a made up narrative.

Here is what most likely happened. GS medical staff cleared him to play, but lets remember clearing someone to play doesn't mean no further risk of injury. All that means is the player is medically capable to play. Chances are they cleared him, told him that he was at a higher risk of injuring himself more serious. He had his own individual doctor look at it, he most likely said the same thing. Kerr and Bob Myers probably then told KD the final decision is up to you. KD then took in all the information, weighed the potential risks vs the potential rewards and he decided on playing.

Again if we find out there were any shortcomings by the medical staff to try and get him ready, or any mischievous actions to trick KD into thinking he was in better shape than he actually was, then ya we have something to talk about. But again most likely, all the information was laid out and KD decided on taking the chance, even with knowing about all the risks. There is nothing more to it.

Here is what most likely happened based on what's been reported. KD suffered a grade 2 calf strain. Typical recovery time is 4-6 weeks before resuming physical activity. KD tried to return to a Finals game in under five weeks with almost no practice. Jalen Rose said at half time of game four that he watched KD go through a workout the day before and looked no where near ready to return. He wasn't the only one who reported that. During all of this there were whispers out of GS that people were unhappy with him being unable to return. Warriors did nothing to quiet that.

I agree KD needs to take some responsibility too. It was his decision to play but it sure doesn't sound like the Warriors were acting in his best interest. I'll be very interested to see what KD says in the coming months/years about whether he felt pressured to play or not. The fact they cleared him for game four and he obviously wasn't ready is kind of a smoking gun.

Im just not seeing the smoking gun here. Like you said the normal timeline of return is 4-6 weeks, he returned within that timeline. Was there pressure externally and internally within the organization for him to return, yes I don't doubt that at all. That doesn't mean anything was done in poor taste by GS and doesn't mean there was any kind of poor medical treatment or information with KD.

Again was there any mishandling by the medical team? That really is the only question here. Until we hear of any news that the medical staff withheld information or lied to KD so he thought it was safer for him to return. This really just boils down to KD hearing the risks of a potential return and deciding to take on those risks.

[VanWest82]

Im just not seeing the smoking gun here. Like you said the normal timeline of return is 4-6 weeks, he returned within that timeline. Was there pressure externally and internally within the organization for him to return, yes I don't doubt that at all. That doesn't mean anything was done in poor taste by GS and doesn't mean there was any kind of poor medical treatment or information with KD.

Again was there any mishandling by the medical team? That really is the only question here. Until we hear of any news that the medical staff withheld information or lied to KD so he thought it was safer for him to return. This really just boils down to KD hearing the risks of a potential return and deciding to take on those risks.

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

[DonaldSanders]

During all of this there were whispers out of GS that people were unhappy with him being unable to return. Warriors did nothing to quiet that.

Not from any credible Warriors sources. I don't count Brian Windhorst as a credible Warriors source.

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Doesn't Occum's Razor suggest that the Docs all thought he was fine but they turned out to be wrong? Medical science is not perfect. He could have had a partial MRI tear nobody saw. You're suggesting a conspiracy involving KD's own outside doctor. Yikes.

[Duke4life831]

Im just not seeing the smoking gun here. Like you said the normal timeline of return is 4-6 weeks, he returned within that timeline. Was there pressure externally and internally within the organization for him to return, yes I don't doubt that at all. That doesn't mean anything was done in poor taste by GS and doesn't mean there was any kind of poor medical treatment or information with KD.

Again was there any mishandling by the medical team? That really is the only question here. Until we hear of any news that the medical staff withheld information or lied to KD so he thought it was safer for him to return. This really just boils down to KD hearing the risks of a potential return and deciding to take on those risks.

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Being cleared to play can be as simple as, you are physically well enough to go out there and perform. He went out there and put up a quick 11 points and was looking fine. Again the doctors could've easily told him, "Kevin you're cleared to play, but there is a sizable risk of injuring it again or worse." Being cleared to play doesn't mean that the player is now 100%.

Im just not seeing what needs to be investigated, unless KD comes out and says that the GS medical staff told him he was 100% and there was nothing for him to worry about. Unless that happens, I am just assuming that the doctors cleared him to play but told him the potential risks and KD decided to take on those risks. That happens a lot in sports. But in this instance, it went the negative way on the biggest stage for the sport.

[Jables]

Are people actually remembering players are supposed to put it on the line for championships and not future contracts or what?

This **** is tiresome, there's not an inquisition every time a player aggravates an injury, people just following the headlines.

[VanWest82]

Im just not seeing the smoking gun here. Like you said the normal timeline of return is 4-6 weeks, he returned within that timeline. Was there pressure externally and internally within the organization for him to return, yes I don't doubt that at all. That doesn't mean anything was done in poor taste by GS and doesn't mean there was any kind of poor medical treatment or information with KD.

Again was there any mishandling by the medical team? That really is the only question here. Until we hear of any news that the medical staff withheld information or lied to KD so he thought it was safer for him to return. This really just boils down to KD hearing the risks of a potential return and deciding to take on those risks.

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Being cleared to play can be as simple as, you are physically well enough to go out there and perform. He went out there and put up a quick 11 points and was looking fine. Again the doctors could've easily told him, "Kevin you're cleared to play, but there is a sizable risk of injuring it again or worse." Being cleared to play doesn't mean that the player is now 100%.

Im just not seeing what needs to be investigated, unless KD comes out and says that the GS medical staff told him he was 100% and there was nothing for him to worry about. Unless that happens, I am just assuming that the doctors cleared him to play but told him the potential risks and KD decided to take on those risks. That happens a lot in sports. But in this instance, it went the negative way on the biggest stage for the sport.

With hundreds of millions of dollars on the line (not just for KD in FA but the NBA when it comes to health of their stars) they have to do better than "you are physically well enough to perform." If the NBA isn't going to hold their team doctors to higher standards than that then they've failed. Someone like KD is too important to the league. He drives fan engagement.

The NFL went so far as to completely change their rules to protect star QBs because ratings suffered when they went down. The Warriors just sacrificed the best player in the sport for an elimination game and they didn't even seem to understand the consequences. I want to know how that could happen. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

[Duke4life831]

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Being cleared to play can be as simple as, you are physically well enough to go out there and perform. He went out there and put up a quick 11 points and was looking fine. Again the doctors could've easily told him, "Kevin you're cleared to play, but there is a sizable risk of injuring it again or worse." Being cleared to play doesn't mean that the player is now 100%.

Im just not seeing what needs to be investigated, unless KD comes out and says that the GS medical staff told him he was 100% and there was nothing for him to worry about. Unless that happens, I am just assuming that the doctors cleared him to play but told him the potential risks and KD decided to take on those risks. That happens a lot in sports. But in this instance, it went the negative way on the biggest stage for the sport.

With hundreds of millions of dollars on the line (not just for KD in FA but the NBA when it comes to health of their stars) they have to do better than "you are physically well enough to perform." If the NBA isn't going to hold their team doctors to higher standards than that then they've failed. Someone like KD is too important to the league. He drives fan engagement.

The NFL went so far as to completely change their rules to protect star QBs because ratings suffered when they went down. The Warriors just sacrificed the best player in the sport for an elimination game and they didn't even seem to understand the consequences. I want to know how that could happen. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

It wasn't just the team doctors, it was KD's own personal doctors that also gave him the go ahead. I honestly don't get what standard you are looking for? Team and personal doctors gave him the go ahead. Im sure all medical personnel involved told him that there will be an increase of further or more serious injury playing on it. Which is true with any injury, when your hurt your automatically going to try and overcompensate for it.

[zhenyasj]

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Being cleared to play can be as simple as, you are physically well enough to go out there and perform. He went out there and put up a quick 11 points and was looking fine. Again the doctors could've easily told him, "Kevin you're cleared to play, but there is a sizable risk of injuring it again or worse." Being cleared to play doesn't mean that the player is now 100%.

Im just not seeing what needs to be investigated, unless KD comes out and says that the GS medical staff told him he was 100% and there was nothing for him to worry about. Unless that happens, I am just assuming that the doctors cleared him to play but told him the potential risks and KD decided to take on those risks. That happens a lot in sports. But in this instance, it went the negative way on the biggest stage for the sport.

With hundreds of millions of dollars on the line (not just for KD in FA but the NBA when it comes to health of their stars) they have to do better than "you are physically well enough to perform." If the NBA isn't going to hold their team doctors to higher standards than that then they've failed. Someone like KD is too important to the league. He drives fan engagement.

The NFL went so far as to completely change their rules to protect star QBs because ratings suffered when they went down. The Warriors just sacrificed the best player in the sport for an elimination game and they didn't even seem to understand the consequences. I want to know how that could happen. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.

What's a higher standard? What else should doctors evaluate other than whether the player is healthy enough to play? So KD could never have had an achilles injury without Warriors being responsible?

[Guest202]

He explained it well.

It's sickening, the whole thing. Really a turnoff on sports to see this in action honestly.

truly is..i just dont get why anyone would want him to play..he literally put his career on the line because people pressured him..its sad man..

Whoever was "unhappy with KD" in the Warriors org should be named. Expose who pressured him to play.

All of the chatter around this was GSW PR team in action. Trust.

[nikster]

Im just not seeing the smoking gun here. Like you said the normal timeline of return is 4-6 weeks, he returned within that timeline. Was there pressure externally and internally within the organization for him to return, yes I don't doubt that at all. That doesn't mean anything was done in poor taste by GS and doesn't mean there was any kind of poor medical treatment or information with KD.

Again was there any mishandling by the medical team? That really is the only question here. Until we hear of any news that the medical staff withheld information or lied to KD so he thought it was safer for him to return. This really just boils down to KD hearing the risks of a potential return and deciding to take on those risks.

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring. KD clearly wasn't ready to play based on his workout prior to game four and the fact that he ultimately didn't play despite being incorrectly cleared by the doctors. So why was he cleared to play?

It sounds like there were lots of doctors involved, including ones not with the Warriors. I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But the fact remains that he came back early, ruptured his Achilles, and all those doctors were wrong. And yes, he did come back early. It's 4-6 weeks until physical activity not 4-6 weeks until you're ready to play in a Finals game. I'm not hearing any stories about doctors who tried to stop him or who warned that this could happen. Everyone is saying they didn't even think it COULD happen! Doesn't that strike you as weird? Like I said, I hope the league looks into this.

Again it depends what they told him exactly. They probably discussed the likelihood of reinjury. These doctors are paid to treat million dollar assets. There is no way the doctor just told KD “you are cleared” and left it at thatv

[will]

People were already saying he had an achilles issue when he INITIALLY hurt it against Houston. He already demonstrated the tell tale signs by looking back at at his foot like someone stepped on it.

[grimlock]

Jalen with quite the speech. Silencing Smith and the crowd.
World needs more Jalens.

[Tracymcgoaty]

It's like modern day gladiators at times.

The snowflake culture strikes again ...

overreaction on my part. Sounded pretty cool tho.

[Guest202]

he was going to blow that achilles the next time he played whether it was that game, this summer, or preseason next year. you don't compromise the achilles and then 8 weeks later its still effed and have nonsurgical rest type options to fix it. he was going to have to surgically repair that thing regardless. its like partial tears to acls…. if 2 months later its still effed then a full reconstruction is whats happening if youre a pro athlete. try playing on it and no matter how much rest you got then that thing is eventually going to go if you never had surgery.

its good he played and the rehab process starts this summer. my guess is this thing would have lingered and lingered and lingered and the first time he went on it then boom then

To the best of anyone's knowledge the injury was to his calf. There is no reason at this time to question experts in their field on what was injured.

The whole world saw the ice on his ankle, not his calf. He grabbed his ankle when he went down. There’s zero chance they were being completely honest.

Bingo. They were distorting the actual diagnosis from the get-go. No doctor talks like how they were spinning it.

[karkinos]

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring.

a medical team clearing you to play does not guarantee you will not get injured
the outcome and time frame in which your injury may occur does not change the initial assessment of what your pre-injury risk was

now that you know the outcome of the nba lottery, do you think the news regarding the pelicans should read "pelicans win #1 draft pick with 100% chance of winning"?