WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd

[Prokorov]

Still between Kyrie and Tobi they're not going to take 13.4M worth of pay cuts. It'd come down to renounce DLo or a bare minimum of moving Joe or Din. At that point I'm exploring whether a lesser second FA can be acquired at ~20M instead.

We're at $47.5mil in space now. Moving Din for a future pick would but us around $57mil. Stashing #27 or trading down frees up another couple of million. Getting about $6mil short may be striking range,

The sad reality is that should we go the Kyrie/Tobias route we can retain D’lo but will lose a combination of Spencer + Joe or Spencer + Prince & Musa.

i love dinwiddie by kyrie is much better... so if kyrie means dinwiddie goes then its bye felicia

[Prokorov]

I have no issue signing Kyrie and will be pumped if he's the guy we end up maxing. He's a very good player, if he's the best we can do with our $, terrific. But if we can get KD (or Leonard) without him I say keep the younger, cheaper, DLo.

"super teams" just haven't worked out, and JMO but it's a mark against him that he asked out of Cleveland, got his wish, went to a contender and that didn't work out either. Look no further than what Kawhi is doing in Toronto - in the NBA 1 player can most definitely elevate an organization. I'm not blaming Kyrie for all the ills of those 2 teams but it's just a fact that he's about to leave his 2nd org on bad terms. Russell came here and put the work in to become the player he is right now. Is he as good or as Kyrie? No. Can he continue improving and get that good? Maybe, maybe not. But in this case the difference isn't big enough for me to dump the horse that got me here. I'd rather keep building with him and use the extra $ to add another good rotation player in the front court.

There is no confusion between Kawhi and Kyrie. Nor KD and Kyrie. Or AD and Kyrie. Well maybe the latter, almost. He's more Lillard or Paul George than LeBron, obviously and for sure. But he's still a great player, in his prime, a lifelong Nets fan, etc.

Lillard is a perfectly reasonable comp in terms of how they've produced - the difference is that Lillard hasn't bounced around 2 teams. This is going to come off harsher than the reality, but there's a Marbury quality to Irving. Maybe it was just unfortunate circumstances in both CLE & BOS. Or maybe not. If he's the best we can do I have no issue rolling the dice. Giving up DLo is where I have some pause.

remind me of when marbury won a title as a top 2 player on a team? did he do that in china? certainly not in the NBA

[Rockice_24]

Still between Kyrie and Tobi they're not going to take 13.4M worth of pay cuts. It'd come down to renounce DLo or a bare minimum of moving Joe or Din. At that point I'm exploring whether a lesser second FA can be acquired at ~20M instead.

We're at $47.5mil in space now. Moving Din for a future pick would but us around $57mil. Stashing #27 or trading down frees up another couple of million. Getting about $6mil short may be striking range,

The sad reality is that should we go the Kyrie/Tobias route we can retain D’lo but will lose a combination of Spencer + Joe or Spencer + Prince & Musa.

Wow didn't realize how close we were to being able to land a Kyrie/Tobias combo and still keeping Russell. Because KD's max is what 6M more that makes it tough to keep Russell but the lesser maxes of Kyrie/Tobias makes sense to try and go for.

I'd be ok losing Din if it meant keeping Russell and landing both Kyrie and Tobias. Dumping Din, Prince, Musa, stashing #27 gets us close. I wonder if Tobias would take a slight cut to come home.

Kyrie/Levert
Russell/Reddick
Harris
Tobias/Kurucs
Allen/#31(Gafford)

That would be a great team without completely losing our identity.

[treiz]

Well, if we're going to go that route, then we can't really form opinions about many decisions that are made because we don't know all of the information about the market at the time.

The idea that we should've received more compensation wasn't something that was only brought up by "homer" Nets fans. IIRC, there were a number of pundits who also believed that the Nets could've (and probably should've) asked for more. It was known for a while that POR wanted to minimize their tax payments and were even considering bundling draft picks together and/or trading for a future pick to avoid the luxury tax.

The reality could've been that the Nets were the only team that didn't ask for more back for taking on Crabbe's contract and lowering their tax bill. However, given how much we helped Portland out financially, it's hard to believe that the Nets couldn't even get a future 2nd rd pick, let alone a 1st.

IIRC, the Blazers also had 3 first rounders that year. Could've easily swooped in for one of them at the least.

But regardless this was a great move by Marks. I'm not expecting him to get KD (since I think Kyrie wants to come here and I can't imagine Marks/Kenny getting rid of DLo), but a Kyrie/Harris summer would be fantastic.

[NyCeEvO]

Well, if we're going to go that route, then we can't really form opinions about many decisions that are made because we don't know all of the information about the market at the time.

The idea that we should've received more compensation wasn't something that was only brought up by "homer" Nets fans. IIRC, there were a number of pundits who also believed that the Nets could've (and probably should've) asked for more. It was known for a while that POR wanted to minimize their tax payments and were even considering bundling draft picks together and/or trading for a future pick to avoid the luxury tax.

The reality could've been that the Nets were the only team that didn't ask for more back for taking on Crabbe's contract and lowering their tax bill. However, given how much we helped Portland out financially, it's hard to believe that the Nets couldn't even get a future 2nd rd pick, let alone a 1st.

IIRC, the Blazers also had 3 first rounders that year. Could've easily swooped in for one of them at the least.

Yup, you're right. I just checked...they had 15, 20, 26 originally before packaging 15 and 20 to take Zach Collins with the 10th pick. Only further cements the idea that we should've asked for a 1st.

But regardless this was a great move by Marks. I'm not expecting him to get KD (since I think Kyrie wants to come here and I can't imagine Marks/Kenny getting rid of DLo), but a Kyrie/Harris summer would be fantastic.

If they believe it would make the team that much better, I think Marks would.

[treiz]

But regardless this was a great move by Marks. I'm not expecting him to get KD (since I think Kyrie wants to come here and I can't imagine Marks/Kenny getting rid of DLo), but a Kyrie/Harris summer would be fantastic.

If they believe it would make the team that much better, I think Marks would.

I personally hope so if that's the case (really I'm hoping that there's a way we can get Kyrie/KD/DLo here even though it's incredibly unlikely), I just can't imagine it with Russell having the year that he had being the face of the franchise as well as this whole thing that Kenny/Marks has built with regards to culture and atmosphere, think it's safe to say Kenny/Marks has a soft spot for him considering all he's done this year with being the face of the what Kenny/Marks set out to do when they took over.

It just sends out a bad message IMO to get rid of the main player who got you to the playoffs for the first time as coach/GM.

[Netaman]

There is no confusion between Kawhi and Kyrie. Nor KD and Kyrie. Or AD and Kyrie. Well maybe the latter, almost. He's more Lillard or Paul George than LeBron, obviously and for sure. But he's still a great player, in his prime, a lifelong Nets fan, etc.

Lillard is a perfectly reasonable comp in terms of how they've produced - the difference is that Lillard hasn't bounced around 2 teams. This is going to come off harsher than the reality, but there's a Marbury quality to Irving. Maybe it was just unfortunate circumstances in both CLE & BOS. Or maybe not. If he's the best we can do I have no issue rolling the dice. Giving up DLo is where I have some pause.

remind me of when marbury won a title as a top 2 player on a team? did he do that in china? certainly not in the NBA

Remind me when Marbury played with the equivalent of Lebron (aka prime MJ)?

Remind me again how far Lebron took Cleveland against GSW the year prior to winning the title when Kyrie was hurt? And where Lebron took them the year after he got traded for basically nothing? And how far the Celtics got in the postseason in 17-18 when Kyrie was out vs. this past year with him?

In the 3 years before Lebron came back Cleveland was about 70 games under .500 with Kyrie (they had a **** ton of problems in those years i'm not blaming on Kyrie, just pointing out the absurdity of Lebron's greatness). Year 4 Lebron shows up and gets them within 2 games of a title with Mozgov, Delladova, Shumpert, and Thompson starting next to him. Kyrie deserves plenty of credit for hitting the shots that won the championship when he was healthy, and I'm by no means saying he isn't clutch or an excellent sidekick, but it's impossible to credit another player on the court for elevating a team when Lebron is there literally triple doubling his way to destroying every finals record known to man. He was basically like a powerball ticket for Mozgov, Delly, Thompson, and Shump.

And Boston won 53 games the year before Kyrie got there and with him they went up to...55. And went further into the playoffs both the year he was hurt and the year before he got there vs. the year he was playing. Again, not knocking his contribution just pointing out he's not a case study in carrying teams to new heights.

[Prokorov]

Lillard is a perfectly reasonable comp in terms of how they've produced - the difference is that Lillard hasn't bounced around 2 teams. This is going to come off harsher than the reality, but there's a Marbury quality to Irving. Maybe it was just unfortunate circumstances in both CLE & BOS. Or maybe not. If he's the best we can do I have no issue rolling the dice. Giving up DLo is where I have some pause.

remind me of when marbury won a title as a top 2 player on a team? did he do that in china? certainly not in the NBA

Remind me when Marbury played with the equivalent of Lebron (aka prime MJ)?

Remind me again how far Lebron took Cleveland against GSW the year prior to winning the title when Kyrie was hurt? And where Lebron took them the year after he got traded for basically nothing? And how far the Celtics got in the postseason in 17-18 when Kyrie was out vs. this past year with him?

In the 3 years before Lebron came back Cleveland was about 70 games under .500 with Kyrie (they had a **** ton of problems in those years i'm not blaming on Kyrie, just pointing out the absurdity of Lebron's greatness). Year 4 Lebron shows up and gets them within 2 games of a title with Mozgov, Delladova, Shumpert, and Thompson starting next to him. Kyrie deserves plenty of credit for hitting the shots that won the championship when he was healthy, and I'm by no means saying he isn't clutch or an excellent sidekick, but it's impossible to credit another player on the court for elevating a team when Lebron is there literally triple doubling his way to destroying every finals record known to man. He was basically like a powerball ticket for Mozgov, Delly, Thompson, and Shump.

And Boston won 53 games the year before Kyrie got there and with him they went up to...55. And went further into the playoffs both the year he was hurt and the year before he got there vs. the year he was playing. Again, not knocking his contribution just pointing out he's not a case study in carrying teams to new heights.

again, Kyrie won a title as a top 2 player on his team (and hit the biggest shot).

Fact: lebron won ZERO titles in cleveland without Kyrie on the floor.

Boston can thank its home court in the playoffs to Kyrie helping them win 55 games. it would have been even more then 55 wins if kyrie didnt go down and the celtics go just 9-7 down the stretch. celtics were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs. wihtout home court they would have lost in round 1. without kyrie all year that year they probably are like an 8 seed.

Kyrie is a proven top 12 player who has PROVEN he can be a top 2 player on a title team.

[Netaman]

remind me of when marbury won a title as a top 2 player on a team? did he do that in china? certainly not in the NBA

Remind me when Marbury played with the equivalent of Lebron (aka prime MJ)?

Remind me again how far Lebron took Cleveland against GSW the year prior to winning the title when Kyrie was hurt? And where Lebron took them the year after he got traded for basically nothing? And how far the Celtics got in the postseason in 17-18 when Kyrie was out vs. this past year with him?

In the 3 years before Lebron came back Cleveland was about 70 games under .500 with Kyrie (they had a **** ton of problems in those years i'm not blaming on Kyrie, just pointing out the absurdity of Lebron's greatness). Year 4 Lebron shows up and gets them within 2 games of a title with Mozgov, Delladova, Shumpert, and Thompson starting next to him. Kyrie deserves plenty of credit for hitting the shots that won the championship when he was healthy, and I'm by no means saying he isn't clutch or an excellent sidekick, but it's impossible to credit another player on the court for elevating a team when Lebron is there literally triple doubling his way to destroying every finals record known to man. He was basically like a powerball ticket for Mozgov, Delly, Thompson, and Shump.

And Boston won 53 games the year before Kyrie got there and with him they went up to...55. And went further into the playoffs both the year he was hurt and the year before he got there vs. the year he was playing. Again, not knocking his contribution just pointing out he's not a case study in carrying teams to new heights.

again, Kyrie won a title as a top 2 player on his team (and hit the biggest shot).

Fact: lebron won ZERO titles in cleveland without Kyrie on the floor.

Boston can thank its home court in the playoffs to Kyrie helping them win 55 games. it would have been even more then 55 wins if kyrie didnt go down and the celtics go just 9-7 down the stretch. celtics were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs. wihtout home court they would have lost in round 1. without kyrie all year that year they probably are like an 8 seed.

Kyrie is a proven top 12 player who has PROVEN he can be a top 2 player on a title team.

Which we're in agreement on and doesn't disprove either of the points i've made about Kyrie, regardless of wherever anyone's preference to rank him is numerically:

1. He's never shown the ability to lift his teams - he won his title as a sidekick ("a top 2 player on a title team")
2. He's also had a longer injury history than most of the other players you'd group in his 2nd tier

Neither would stop me from giving him a max deal, both would give me pause if I was signing him at the expense of DLo walking for nothing.

[bubonicphoniks]

This is sour grapes. But I still CANNOT believe they gave that guy that contract. Two freaking years in a row.

What was that strange infatuation with him?

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[kamaze]

I don't know how many teams are gonna be fighting over Carroll or Dudley - I would be surprised if 1 of them aren't back as a depth guy for a minimum deal.

Dudley is a minimum guy next year. Carroll could get more, but I seem to recall an interview a while back where he stated it’s his wife’s turn to decide where he’s going to play.

Carroll will probably go somewhere he can play meaningful minutes. I think Dudley is back here on a 2 year vet min deal.


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I wouldn't mind bringing Dudley and DeMarre back. In Demarres case he's a good veteran that Prince can learn from. Especially if he's expected to play similar to him.

Dudley's good for the culture too.
Both of them will be better if they aren't depended on as much.

Kurucs should play more this year, they have Prince, and whatever power forward/ center/ they pick up.

[kamaze]

Dudley is a minimum guy next year. Carroll could get more, but I seem to recall an interview a while back where he stated it’s his wife’s turn to decide where he’s going to play.

Carroll will probably go somewhere he can play meaningful minutes. I think Dudley is back here on a 2 year vet min deal.


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Carroll will get another sweet deal. Even if we don't re-sign him. Dude has done an awesome job both in and out of our locker room. This is all due to the nets front office investment in a great team that works hard.

He fits what the coach wants out of the players to a tee. Great chemistry with his teammates. If you want to keep Dlo he is one of the players who helped him have a great season.

[NyCeEvO]

Carroll will probably go somewhere he can play meaningful minutes. I think Dudley is back here on a 2 year vet min deal.


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Carroll will get another sweet deal. Even if we don't re-sign him. Dude has done an awesome job both in and out of our locker room. This is all due to the nets front office investment in a great team that works hard.

He fits what the coach wants out of the players to a tee. Great chemistry with his teammates. If you want to keep Dlo he is one of the players who helped him have a great season.

Unfortunately for them, they won't be considered until all of the major dealing of free agency is over. Our roster might be near capacity before we seriously consider bringing them back.

Because Dudley is athletically finished, I think he would be more open to only playing once every few games and therefore more amenable to a vet min contract. with no expectation of being a workhorse of any sort for this team.

Carroll still has some years of service left. The chance to make millions of dollars per year at a job is exceedingly rare, so I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the highest bidder in the offseason.

[Aussienet3]

Carroll will get another sweet deal. Even if we don't re-sign him. Dude has done an awesome job both in and out of our locker room. This is all due to the nets front office investment in a great team that works hard.

He fits what the coach wants out of the players to a tee. Great chemistry with his teammates. If you want to keep Dlo he is one of the players who helped him have a great season.

Unfortunately for them, they won't be considered until all of the major dealing of free agency is over. Our roster might be near capacity before we seriously consider bringing them back.

Because Dudley is athletically finished, I think he would be more open to only playing once every few games and therefore more amenable to a vet min contract. with no expectation of being a workhorse of any sort for this team.

Carroll still has some years of service left. The chance to make millions of dollars per year at a job is exceedingly rare, so I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the highest bidder in the offseason.

I don't see Dudley coming back. (links to Boston) I agree with Carroll taking the best offer, can't blame him.

[Keith Van Horn]

tbh out of our 3 big vets this year (Dudley, Davis, and Carroll), I want Davis back the most. I don't think Allen is quite ready for the entire load at center and he could use another year of being mentored by Davis. But I do think Dudley comes back after all the dust settles. He seems like he really wants to be in Brooklyn. He's all over NY in his Twitter posts recently.

[drchaos]

tbh out of our 3 big vets this year (Dudley, Davis, and Carroll), I want Davis back the most. I don't think Allen is quite ready for the entire load at center and he could use another year of being mentored by Davis. But I do think Dudley comes back after all the dust settles. He seems like he really wants to be in Brooklyn. He's all over NY in his Twitter posts recently.

If someone else does not pay Davis more than we can the other GMs are all fools.

After we use the cap I would try to use the extension to bring Dudley back for another year.

[SpeedyG]

tbh out of our 3 big vets this year (Dudley, Davis, and Carroll), I want Davis back the most. I don't think Allen is quite ready for the entire load at center and he could use another year of being mentored by Davis. But I do think Dudley comes back after all the dust settles. He seems like he really wants to be in Brooklyn. He's all over NY in his Twitter posts recently.

If someone else does not pay Davis more than we can the other GMs are all fools.

After we use the cap I would try to use the extension to bring Dudley back for another year.

Ed is great, but I don't think teams will go after him using straight up cap space with all the bigger and younger names out there.



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[Netaman]

Ed is going to get a decent deal from someone (one of the exceptions) because he's a definite rotation piece, but nobody is paying Dudley or Carroll much. They are nice end of the bench vets, nothing more at this point. I'd be surprised if either gets that much more than a 1 year minimum deals a la last year's crop of vets like Channing Frye, Jarrett Jack, Dante Cunningham, Jerebko.

[drchaos]

Ed is going to get a decent deal from someone (one of the exceptions) because he's a definite rotation piece, but nobody is paying Dudley or Carroll much. They are nice end of the bench vets, nothing more at this point. I'd be surprised if either gets that much more than a 1 year minimum deals a la last year's crop of vets like Channing Frye, Jarrett Jack, Dante Cunningham, Jerebko.

Dudley stepped up big in the playoffs.

Due to his age he won't get much which is why I would use our exemption on him this year.

[Netaman]

Ed is going to get a decent deal from someone (one of the exceptions) because he's a definite rotation piece, but nobody is paying Dudley or Carroll much. They are nice end of the bench vets, nothing more at this point. I'd be surprised if either gets that much more than a 1 year minimum deals a la last year's crop of vets like Channing Frye, Jarrett Jack, Dante Cunningham, Jerebko.

Dudley stepped up big in the playoffs.

Due to his age he won't get much which is why I would use our exemption on him this year.

Doesn't matter - Alan Anderson stepped up in playoffs a couple times too. Teams don't pay for back bench veteran role players just because they had 1 decent series. The only veterans who get paid are those with some kind of an elite skill needed in a rotation (like Davis' rebounding).