Jalen Rose bout to get fired for telling the truth.

[VanWest82]

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring.

a medical team clearing you to play does not guarantee you will not get injured
the outcome and time frame in which your injury may occur does not change the initial assessment of what your pre-injury risk was

now that you know the outcome of the nba lottery, do you think the news regarding the pelicans should read "pelicans win #1 draft pick with 100% chance of winning"?

It's not about guarantees. Players can get injured at any time and they know that. It's about protecting the player from likely re-injury by exposing them to extreme physical strain before they're fully healed. When the workouts aren't going well and KD's complaining of achilles pain and having to ice them down, and you're still not even at the expected recovery date to start physical activity...at what point is clearing him anyway and having him get seriously injured again considered incompetence?

[Guest202]

He was only cleared to play because they don’t owe him any money, they knew he was opting out and leaving this summer. Period.

[karkinos]

When the medical team clears you to play the implication is that you're healthy enough to play without serious risk of re-injuring.

a medical team clearing you to play does not guarantee you will not get injured
the outcome and time frame in which your injury may occur does not change the initial assessment of what your pre-injury risk was

now that you know the outcome of the nba lottery, do you think the news regarding the pelicans should read "pelicans win #1 draft pick with 100% chance of winning"?

It's not about guarantees. Players can get injured at any time and they know that. It's about protecting the player from likely re-injury by exposing them to extreme physical strain before they're fully healed. When the workouts aren't going well and KD's complaining of achilles pain and having to ice them down, and you're still not even at the expected recovery date to start physical activity...at what point is clearing him anyway and having him get seriously injured again considered incompetence?

Is it incompetence if you can't guarantee the future?
These kinds of situations can only best protect the patient with shared decision making.
Medicine is not a magic 8 ball.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[TheFinishSniper]

The best and most honest I've seen Jalen. I normally think he's a little phony but this was great.

We romanticize what KD attempted to do. He gained more respect by getting injured than by winning. This is because we want to set up Greek tragedies, and completely lose sight of the humanity of athletes. We think because they get paid millions, they should be putting their livelihoods at risk. They get paid millions because they possess a rare skillset and bodies which are literally the product. Condoning this kind of culture only diminishes the product, because we just lost another ATG's prime.

I remember romanticizing Kobe playing 47-48 minutes a night before blowing his Achilles trying to drag that sorry team to the playoffs. It wasn't worth it.

It was. Because at the end Kobe even himself will say that's his legacy. That's there with his 5x rings. Draging that wortless garbage of a team at age of 34. Giving it all. Draining FT's with achilies blown.

Yes it ended his "prime" career. But Kobe will never say that's not the way he wouldnt wanna go because at the end that was Kobe Bryant in nutshell. And that was his thing, go out and play and carry and win. And didnt do that thing for anyone but himself. Not for coach, media, fans his wife or his kids.

Yes media cares more about narratives than anything else, but that's was certainly not great example. As for KD we know he is soft and cares about people's opinion. And if anyone on Golden State team pushed him to play without him himself feeling ready, and was influenced and someone took advantage of his weak mental state, that's on you.

So Bob Myers for example you can cry yourself a river of tears if you had anything to do with that. You will carry that rest of your life.

[dhsilv2]

he was going to blow that achilles the next time he played whether it was that game, this summer, or preseason next year. you don't compromise the achilles and then 8 weeks later its still effed and have nonsurgical rest type options to fix it. he was going to have to surgically repair that thing regardless. its like partial tears to acls…. if 2 months later its still effed then a full reconstruction is whats happening if youre a pro athlete. try playing on it and no matter how much rest you got then that thing is eventually going to go if you never had surgery.

its good he played and the rehab process starts this summer. my guess is this thing would have lingered and lingered and lingered and the first time he went on it then boom then

To the best of anyone's knowledge the injury was to his calf. There is no reason at this time to question experts in their field on what was injured.

The whole world saw the ice on his ankle, not his calf. He grabbed his ankle when he went down. There’s zero chance they were being completely honest.

That's where you put ice on a lower calf injury....there's zero chance you have any medical knowledge to make such a claim.

[Dasein]

Misleading title. Why would he get fired for saying that?

[dhsilv2]

theres all sorts of reasons to question it. these are the same experts that cleared him to go play. stuff like this happens all the time. its called misdiagonis either to the severity or even the nature of injury or disease.

im sure his drs are looking back at his mris and asking themselves what they missed. im also sure their thinking of clues they had that they didn't consider clues considering what they know now. hindsight is a bitch...… and medicine is not exact science

There's reason perhaps if you have medical expertise. I'm guessing you don't. Speculation like this is terrible!

And as with anything, being medically cleared and not being at risk of an injury is impossible. Nobody knows when someone is completely ready to go back and that isn't what being cleared even means.

were discussing a situation after we know the outcome. of course you don't have to be trained medical to discuss it. if somebody dies of cancer and the original diagnosis was something else you don't have to medical expert to figure out there might be something up with that original diagnosis.

the guy was cleared to play because it was determined by the medical experts that he couldn't do any more permanent harm. it was determined it was his calf. 12 minutes after he tried to play..…. he blew his achilles. youd have to be nuts not to allow speculation the two were connected and that's why the whole world is doing it. the idea you need to be dr to simply raise some questions is absurd.

fwiw....I have spent my entire adult life in health related fields after playing basketball in college and then having a short professional career. ive been surrounded by situations and discussions like this my entire life including seeing specifically dozens of achilles injuries and rehabs up close and firsthand. I don't think that matters tho. id be willing to listen to anybody jot of information or theory regarding this. its a pretty big deal how wrong they had it to send him back out there and have this happen and then be surprised.

as I stated before.... based of my experience and understanding I wouldn't be surprised if this injury had become inevitable considering how fast it went after 2 months rehab. im not saying im right.... im just raising the point its possible. if he was going to need surgery after the original injury against Houston then theoretically its better it happened now then later and its better it happened trying to play in the finals then some pickup game in august. that's the point im making and if im wrong then so what

I'm supposed to think someone in science would use theory that way?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I'm supposed to think someone in science would use theory that way?

the dude rested and rehabbed "his calf" for 5 weeks and then popped his achilles on his first hard pushoff since his original injury. anybody who uses science to say this was a random freak accident can shove their science up their ass.

the only science this exposes is that science in medicine may not be science at all in some cases. im assuming the mri's came back clean... oh well.... lot of good those were.

recently my accountants wife was literally told she had cancer and less than 6 months to live at the respected wake forest medical hospital. they scheduled some meds to try and extend life and a couple procedures but was told there was nothing they could do. she then went to another cancer clinic and they told her it wasn't even cancer. turns out the 2nd opinion was right. went golfing with them recently and we all got a big relieved laugh out of it.

drs have come a long way but the idea they somehow have all the answers is dumb as ****. they are wrong all the time and final outcomes ALWAYS trump random bullsht initial diagnosis. the guy popped his achilles on a nothing play after his first hard move. end of story. there was more to this than was suspected or reported

[Tracymcgoaty]

Misleading title. Why would he get fired for saying that?

yeah that was my bad..overreaction.

[dhsilv2]

I'm supposed to think someone in science would use theory that way?

the dude rested and rehabbed "his calf" for 5 weeks and then popped his achilles on his first hard pushoff since his original injury. anybody who uses science to say this was a random freak accident can shove their science up their ass.

the only science this exposes is that science in medicine may not be science at all in some cases. im assuming the mri's came back clean... oh well.... lot of good those were.

recently my accountants wife was literally told she had cancer and less than 6 months to live at the respected wake forest medical hospital. they scheduled some meds to try and extend life and a couple procedures but was told there was nothing they could do. she then went to another cancer clinic and they told her it wasn't even cancer. turns out the 2nd opinion was right. went golfing with them recently and we all got a big relieved laugh out of it.

drs have come a long way but the idea they somehow have all the answers is dumb as ****. they are wrong all the time and final outcomes ALWAYS trump random bullsht initial diagnosis. the guy popped his achilles on a nothing play after his first hard move. end of story. there was more to this than was suspected or reported

Yes an the dozens and dozens of first and second opinions were all wrong...possible. or crazy idea and non medically informed so crazy hypothesis as of course a theory would imply I tested something...but maybe he was in pain and he was pushing and moving abnormally and that lead to a bigger injury because he was not using his muscles to stop his momentum and instead was using his joints? We know 100% that coming back from an injury that there's a risk of getting a new injury...it's so normal it's comical that we're discussing this. Or maybe mentally he didn't want to put weight on it and again it lead to odd movement?

We don't know how much rest a player needs after an injury. We don't know how much a player should even play in a season. We don't know how long an individual needs to recover. But it seems despite all the unknowns in medicine you're able to give absolutes despite not even using basic science terms correctly.

That isn't to say it's impossible that the dozens of medical professionals were wrong, but you someone with zero knowledge on the topic are in no place to question them. But hey go along thinking dozens of specialists were all wrong and you're the smartest person on the planet.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I'm supposed to think someone in science would use theory that way?

the dude rested and rehabbed "his calf" for 5 weeks and then popped his achilles on his first hard pushoff since his original injury. anybody who uses science to say this was a random freak accident can shove their science up their ass.

the only science this exposes is that science in medicine may not be science at all in some cases. im assuming the mri's came back clean... oh well.... lot of good those were.

recently my accountants wife was literally told she had cancer and less than 6 months to live at the respected wake forest medical hospital. they scheduled some meds to try and extend life and a couple procedures but was told there was nothing they could do. she then went to another cancer clinic and they told her it wasn't even cancer. turns out the 2nd opinion was right. went golfing with them recently and we all got a big relieved laugh out of it.

drs have come a long way but the idea they somehow have all the answers is dumb as ****. they are wrong all the time and final outcomes ALWAYS trump random bullsht initial diagnosis. the guy popped his achilles on a nothing play after his first hard move. end of story. there was more to this than was suspected or reported

Yes an the dozens and dozens of first and second opinions were all wrong...possible. or crazy idea and non medically informed so crazy hypothesis as of course a theory would imply I tested something...but maybe he was in pain and he was pushing and moving abnormally and that lead to a bigger injury because he was not using his muscles to stop his momentum and instead was using his joints? We know 100% that coming back from an injury that there's a risk of getting a new injury...it's so normal it's comical that we're discussing this. Or maybe mentally he didn't want to put weight on it and again it lead to odd movement?

We don't know how much rest a player needs after an injury. We don't know how much a player should even play in a season. We don't know how long an individual needs to recover. But it seems despite all the unknowns in medicine you're able to give absolutes despite not even using basic science terms correctly.

That isn't to say it's impossible that the dozens of medical professionals were wrong, but you someone with zero knowledge on the topic are in no place to question them. But hey go along thinking dozens of specialists were all wrong and you're the smartest person on the planet.

i offered my opinion and theory and you attacked me for offering it. now your offering 5 more theories as proof that mine could be wrong. nice intellect. learn the definition of theory and opinion.

at least you joined the discussion instead of attacking people for discussing it. that's half way to being less of an asshat in this thread anyway

[dhsilv2]

the dude rested and rehabbed "his calf" for 5 weeks and then popped his achilles on his first hard pushoff since his original injury. anybody who uses science to say this was a random freak accident can shove their science up their ass.

the only science this exposes is that science in medicine may not be science at all in some cases. im assuming the mri's came back clean... oh well.... lot of good those were.

recently my accountants wife was literally told she had cancer and less than 6 months to live at the respected wake forest medical hospital. they scheduled some meds to try and extend life and a couple procedures but was told there was nothing they could do. she then went to another cancer clinic and they told her it wasn't even cancer. turns out the 2nd opinion was right. went golfing with them recently and we all got a big relieved laugh out of it.

drs have come a long way but the idea they somehow have all the answers is dumb as ****. they are wrong all the time and final outcomes ALWAYS trump random bullsht initial diagnosis. the guy popped his achilles on a nothing play after his first hard move. end of story. there was more to this than was suspected or reported

Yes an the dozens and dozens of first and second opinions were all wrong...possible. or crazy idea and non medically informed so crazy hypothesis as of course a theory would imply I tested something...but maybe he was in pain and he was pushing and moving abnormally and that lead to a bigger injury because he was not using his muscles to stop his momentum and instead was using his joints? We know 100% that coming back from an injury that there's a risk of getting a new injury...it's so normal it's comical that we're discussing this. Or maybe mentally he didn't want to put weight on it and again it lead to odd movement?

We don't know how much rest a player needs after an injury. We don't know how much a player should even play in a season. We don't know how long an individual needs to recover. But it seems despite all the unknowns in medicine you're able to give absolutes despite not even using basic science terms correctly.

That isn't to say it's impossible that the dozens of medical professionals were wrong, but you someone with zero knowledge on the topic are in no place to question them. But hey go along thinking dozens of specialists were all wrong and you're the smartest person on the planet.

i offered my opinion and theory and you attacked me for offering it. now your offering 5 more theories as proof that mine could be wrong. nice intellect. learn the definition of theory and opinion.

at least you joined the discussion instead of attacking people for discussing it. that's half way to being less of an asshat in this thread anyway

I have never offered a theory in my life. I don't conduct the research needed to move a hypothesis to a theory. I offered a hypothesis. I did not attack you, I attacked your claim to experiences given people in the medical field do not go about using theory as "hunch" and by you stating opinion and theory separately you are still stating it as something else other than a wild guess which is how you used it.

There's just no reason for anyone who hasn't been involved in this to question the original view of the medical teams and the army of specialists that KD saw. Yes, everyone is aware that mistakes can be made by everyone...medicine isn't perfect it's far from perfect. However, a culture that feels it is empowered to attack experts because you slept at a holiday inn express is not one ANYONE should want to foster.

I doubt you mean ill with your statements, but without a doubt they lead down a truly dark path.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I have never offered a theory in my life. I don't conduct the research needed to move a hypothesis to a theory. I offered a hypothesis. I did not attack you, I attacked your claim to experiences given people in the medical field do not go about using theory as "hunch" and by you stating opinion and theory separately you are still stating it as something else other than a wild guess which is how you used it.

There's just no reason for anyone who hasn't been involved in this to question the original view of the medical teams and the army of specialists that KD saw. Yes, everyone is aware that mistakes can be made by everyone...medicine isn't perfect it's far from perfect. However, a culture that feels it is empowered to attack experts because you slept at a holiday inn express is not one ANYONE should want to foster.

I doubt you mean ill with your statements, but without a doubt they lead down a truly dark path.

oh whatever with your hypothesis theory hunch bullsht. were having a discussion on a discussion board called realgm. the whole point of it is to share opinions and theories whether they are hypothesis or hunch or whatever who cares. there is no dark path and nobody is getting hurt and maybe im right and maybe im wrong. so big deal I offered a hunch then if that's what you want to call it

besides that im done. this will be the last for me on it. this whole argument youre initiating has become weird to me

[ropjhk]

Sounds like an idiot. As usual.


He played because they were down 3-1 and he wanted them to win the championship. There’s nothing more to discuss. Any alternate theories or reasoning are the delusions of a fool.

Steve Kerr in a press conference yesterday confirmed that doctors told him that there was no chance of re injury. KD was probably told the same thing. Either it was a lie or bad assessment of the injury, in which case KD's decision was based on bad information and GS deserves blame for giving him bad information, or the medical assessment was correct and KD's injury is purely coincidental.

Since the chance of a coincidence is so extremely low and considering how outside medical experts have said that KD shouldn't have played the most reasonable conclusion is that GS medical staff screwed up and KD's decision to play was based off of bad information.

[dhsilv2]

I have never offered a theory in my life. I don't conduct the research needed to move a hypothesis to a theory. I offered a hypothesis. I did not attack you, I attacked your claim to experiences given people in the medical field do not go about using theory as "hunch" and by you stating opinion and theory separately you are still stating it as something else other than a wild guess which is how you used it.

There's just no reason for anyone who hasn't been involved in this to question the original view of the medical teams and the army of specialists that KD saw. Yes, everyone is aware that mistakes can be made by everyone...medicine isn't perfect it's far from perfect. However, a culture that feels it is empowered to attack experts because you slept at a holiday inn express is not one ANYONE should want to foster.

I doubt you mean ill with your statements, but without a doubt they lead down a truly dark path.

oh whatever with your hypothesis theory hunch bullsht. were having a discussion on a discussion board called realgm. the whole point of it is to share opinions and theories whether they are hypothesis or hunch or whatever who cares. there is no dark path and nobody is getting hurt and maybe im right and maybe im wrong. so big deal I offered a hunch then if that's what you want to call it

besides that im done. this will be the last for me on it. this whole argument youre initiating has become weird to me

Some discussions aren't worth having. Do you want to debate if nba players are actually aliens? Seems like a silly discussion but we can't prove it's false. Sitting around on a message board and dismissing medical professionals is truly a low down rotten thing to do. This kind of mentality absolutely does hurt society.

[Pharmcat]

Warriors should hire Jalen to lead their medical staff, since he turned out to be right, and they were wrong

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Sitting around on a message board and dismissing medical professionals is truly a low down rotten thing to do. This kind of mentality absolutely does hurt society.

stop being a nut

[dhsilv2]

Sitting around on a message board and dismissing medical professionals is truly a low down rotten thing to do. This kind of mentality absolutely does hurt society.

stop being a nut

As soon as my sister vaccinates her kids, I'll stop finding dismissing experts on their field A OK...well and everyone accepts global warming, the supreme court stops calling math too complicated, we accept the moon landing, and really anything alex jones says is dismissed without evidence.

[SK21209]

I can't stand hyperbole.

Modern day gladiators. Get out of here. Gladiators? You mean slaves forced to fight each other, animals, and the elements to THE DEATH?

They're paid MILLIONS of dollars and live the lives of gods, man. Nobody forced KD out there. He's a grown man.

Sucks what happened and he should never have been playing in the series to begin with, but to say he was unfairly influenced is yet another way of try to blame others rather than the person responsible.

Sure, was there media buzz? Of course.

Did his teammates want him out there? Of course.

Did the Warriors want him out there? Of course.

It's his job. It's what he's under contract to do. It's what he's paid tens of millions to do.

He made the decision.

If it were some child who didn't know better or some college student unfairly influenced by agents, nike, his team, his coach, the media, etc, then I'd agree.

But this is a grown man. A super star. One of the best there ever has been or ever will be. This isn't Zion Williamson playing the NCAA tournament, this is Kevin F******* Durant playing the NBA finals.

He made this decision.

Sure KD is to blame ofcourse. But like someone posted..sometimes people have to save someone from themselves..why was he cleared when it was clear from watching him play that he was nowhere near healthy. Same thing goes for looney..Dude looked like he was ready to collapse during the game.

Just to be clear im not absolving KD of the blame here. It's just a **** situation overall and it could have been avoided.

You realize the bolded part is the definition of hindsight right?

[Mind_Odyssey]

I can't stand hyperbole.

Modern day gladiators. Get out of here. Gladiators? You mean slaves forced to fight each other, animals, and the elements to THE DEATH?

They're paid MILLIONS of dollars and live the lives of gods, man. Nobody forced KD out there. He's a grown man.

Sucks what happened and he should never have been playing in the series to begin with, but to say he was unfairly influenced is yet another way of try to blame others rather than the person responsible.

Sure, was there media buzz? Of course.

Did his teammates want him out there? Of course.

Did the Warriors want him out there? Of course.

It's his job. It's what he's under contract to do. It's what he's paid tens of millions to do.

He made the decision.

If it were some child who didn't know better or some college student unfairly influenced by agents, nike, his team, his coach, the media, etc, then I'd agree.

But this is a grown man. A super star. One of the best there ever has been or ever will be. This isn't Zion Williamson playing the NCAA tournament, this is Kevin F******* Durant playing the NBA finals.

He made this decision.

Sure KD is to blame ofcourse. But like someone posted..sometimes people have to save someone from themselves..why was he cleared when it was clear from watching him play that he was nowhere near healthy. Same thing goes for looney..Dude looked like he was ready to collapse during the game.

Just to be clear im not absolving KD of the blame here. It's just a **** situation overall and it could have been avoided.

Save him from himself? He’s not some drug addict.

He’s a grown ass man that made a business decision.