Kevin Durant Achilles Injury Mega-Thread (Keep discussion here, please)

[clyde21]

We don't have all of the facts about what the doctors actually knew.

But, in theory, yes. It's their job to predict what outcomes are likely. And it's possible that a very good doctor would have predicted what happened and warned against it.

Unless, of course, the Achilles rupture had nothing to do with KD's existing injury. Doesn't seem likely but if that's your theory then so be it.

We have the only two facts we need:

-His own doctors cleared him

-The Warriors own medical staff cleared him

That's TWO different sets of doctors that diagnosed and cleared him, and these are doctors that work with prefossional athletes on a daily basis.

so, it's either we believe them and take them for their word, or listen to people on RealGM that was to drive garbage narratives.

definitely a tough choice.

Dude, do you not understand that doctors make mistakes?

Doctors give incorrect diagnoses on a daily basis.

Those very doctors, if you could ask them now, would probably say that they may have missed something. That if they had more advanced technology or better MRI's maybe they would have advised KD not to play.

The fact that they cleared him and then he ruptured his achilles is the point....take off your rose colored glasses man.

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

[everdiso]

So we are really all pretending that rushing back from the injury everyone knew was his achilles just coincidentally resulted in him blowing out his achilles?

[lakerz12]

We have the only two facts we need:

-His own doctors cleared him

-The Warriors own medical staff cleared him

That's TWO different sets of doctors that diagnosed and cleared him, and these are doctors that work with prefossional athletes on a daily basis.

so, it's either we believe them and take them for their word, or listen to people on RealGM that was to drive garbage narratives.

definitely a tough choice.

Dude, do you not understand that doctors make mistakes?

Doctors give incorrect diagnoses on a daily basis.

Those very doctors, if you could ask them now, would probably say that they may have missed something. That if they had more advanced technology or better MRI's maybe they would have advised KD not to play.

The fact that they cleared him and then he ruptured his achilles is the point....take off your rose colored glasses man.

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

Simply acknowledge that KD should not have played.

Don't bury your head in the sand and deny any responsibility just to protect your reputation.

We still don't know what they knew. For all we know they were aware of a micro tear in the achilles.

It seems clear that you will defend the Warriors staff to the death no matter what--- which is a little weird, frankly. I think you should try to be more objective.

[clyde21]

Dude, do you not understand that doctors make mistakes?

Doctors give incorrect diagnoses on a daily basis.

Those very doctors, if you could ask them now, would probably say that they may have missed something. That if they had more advanced technology or better MRI's maybe they would have advised KD not to play.

The fact that they cleared him and then he ruptured his achilles is the point....take off your rose colored glasses man.

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

Simply acknowledge that KD should not have played.

Don't bury your head in the sand and deny any responsibility just to protect your reputation.

We still don't know what they knew. For all we know they were aware of a micro tear in the achilles.

It seems clear that you will defend the Warriors staff to the death no matter what--- which is a little weird, frankly. I think you should try to be more objective.

I don't even like Kerr. Have been literally cussing him out the entire series...but that doesn't change the fact that that TWO different medical staffs cleared him, not just the Warriors staff. Durant's own, independent doctors said he was good to go. What do you want the Warriors to do? Sit him now despite getting the green light that he can play? Give me a break.

and as you keep saying, we still don't know what really happened, so maybe ya'll should stop trying to throw around blame until you do know what happened? I know, crazy idea

[durka]

Read on Twitter

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but this interview with KDs mom is probably a pretty good indication of the way he's feeling right now. At 3:35 she's asked if she blames the Warriors for this and she wouldn't explicitly say yes but that he wouldn't have been playing if their doctors hadn't cleared him. Not really sure how you can argue against that. The Warriors calling this a collective desicion is them deflecting blame.

[justme400e]

Kevin Durant Gives an Update on His Ruptured Achilles Injury

The Golden State Warriors SF revealed that while he did indeed rupture his Achilles, his repair surgery was successful and he’s once again on the road to recovery. “Like I said Monday, I’m hurting deeply, but I’m OK. Basketball is my biggest love and I wanted to be out there that night because that’s what I do. I wanted to help my teammates on our quest for the three-peat,” he wrote. “It’s just the way things go in this game and I’m proud that I gave it all I physically could, and I’m proud my brothers got the W. It’s going to be a journey but I’m built for this. I’m a hooper.”
https://hypebeast.com/2019/6/kevin-durant-ruptured-achilles-surgery-update

[FNQ]

Dude, do you not understand that doctors make mistakes?

Doctors give incorrect diagnoses on a daily basis.

Those very doctors, if you could ask them now, would probably say that they may have missed something. That if they had more advanced technology or better MRI's maybe they would have advised KD not to play.

The fact that they cleared him and then he ruptured his achilles is the point....take off your rose colored glasses man.

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

Simply acknowledge that KD should not have played.

Don't bury your head in the sand and deny any responsibility just to protect your reputation.

We still don't know what they knew. For all we know they were aware of a micro tear in the achilles.

It seems clear that you will defend the Warriors staff to the death no matter what--- which is a little weird, frankly. I think you should try to be more objective.

Easy to say in retrospect. As said in the article I linked, there was risk involved and everyone knew it. His doctors, team doctors, KD, the team. As also mentioned, it had to be a unanimous yes.

I think it’s just as clear that you’re wanting to blame the staff and doctors. I mean you just implied they missed something on what’s likely their biggest and most important client after a month of constant surveillance.. advanced technology? Better MRIs? You think he didn’t warrant the best tech out there?

[justme400e]

Basketball is my biggest love and I wanted to be out there that night because that’s what I do. I wanted to help my teammates on our quest for the three peat.

What’s good everybody I wanted to update you all: I did rupture my Achilles. Surgery was today and it was a success, EASY MONEY

My road back starts now! I got my family and my loved ones by my side and we truly appreciate all the messages and support people have sent our way.

Like I said Monday, I’m hurting deeply, but I’m OK. Basketball is my biggest love and I wanted to be out there that night because that’s what I do. I wanted to help my teammates on our quest for the three peat.

Its just the way things go in this game and I’m proud that I gave it all I physically could, and I’m proud my brothers got the W.
It’s going to be a journey but I’m built for this. I’m a hooper
I know my brothers can get this Game 6, and I will be cheering with dub nation while they do it.
https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/12/kevin-durant-is-recovering-following-surgery-to-repair-ruptured-achilles/

[Geddy]

Didn't read thru all 64 pages so it might have been discussed already, but why did they ice his Achilles area the first time he came out of the game in the first quarter?

Wouldn't that tighten things up, reduce blood flow etc? Seems to be the opposite of warming up, stretching etc to prevent injury.

[lakerz12]

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

Simply acknowledge that KD should not have played.

Don't bury your head in the sand and deny any responsibility just to protect your reputation.

We still don't know what they knew. For all we know they were aware of a micro tear in the achilles.

It seems clear that you will defend the Warriors staff to the death no matter what--- which is a little weird, frankly. I think you should try to be more objective.

I don't even like Kerr. Have been literally cussing him out the entire series...but that doesn't change the fact that that TWO different medical staffs cleared him, not just the Warriors staff. Durant's own, independent doctors said he was good to go. What do you want the Warriors to do? Sit him now despite getting the green light that he can play? Give me a break.

and as you keep saying, we still don't know what really happened, so maybe ya'll should stop trying to throw around blame until you do know what happened? I know, crazy idea

Yeah, likewise. Stop assuming the doctors didn't make an incorrect call. Let's wait and see. The truth will come out.

Why do you think Bob Myers (President of Basketball Operations) was on National TV crying and telling us to put the blame on him? Blame for what? If no one did anything wrong?

When's the last time you saw an executive go on TV after a win and cry and tell us to blame him?

And Durant ruptures his achilles when by all accounts it was questionable whether or not he would play.

The whole thing is fishy. I'm not drawing any conclusions.

All I am saying is that you shouldn't absolve all of the Warrior's medical staff just because they cleared him. That's ridiculous. That's not even an argument in your favor.

We can look up many cases where multiple groups of doctors were wrong. That's a circular argument and a logical fallacy to keep saying that they cleared him so he must have been healthy. Nope. Not necessarily.

[ratul]

Lol, blame the doctors!

[ATLTimekeeper]

I understand doctors make mistakes.

But we're not talking about ONE doctor.

We're not even just talking about the GSW medical staff.

We're talking about TWO different sets of doctors, with enormous amounts of experience dealing with sports injuries and professional athletes. I highly, highly, highly doubt that two different sets of medical staffs got this wrong to this level. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And even IF two sets of doctors got this wrong, at this point what do you want people to say or do?

Simply acknowledge that KD should not have played.

Don't bury your head in the sand and deny any responsibility just to protect your reputation.

We still don't know what they knew. For all we know they were aware of a micro tear in the achilles.

It seems clear that you will defend the Warriors staff to the death no matter what--- which is a little weird, frankly. I think you should try to be more objective.

Easy to say in retrospect. As said in the article I linked, there was risk involved and everyone knew it. His doctors, team doctors, KD, the team. As also mentioned, it had to be a unanimous yes.

I think it’s just as clear that you’re wanting to blame the staff and doctors. I mean you just implied they missed something on what’s likely their biggest and most important client after a month of constant surveillance.. advanced technology? Better MRIs? You think he didn’t warrant the best tech out there?

What seems questionable to me is the "no minutes restriction" for a guy who failed a key test a few days prior, had barely practiced and reportedly was feeling pain pushing off, and that the organization admitted at worst he would re-injure the calf. That doesn't sound like there was precaution to protect this client, even against tearing the calf again.

[sikma42]

It wasnt ice. It was a some type of heating pad

Didn't read thru all 64 pages so it might have been discussed already, but why did they ice his Achilles area the first time he came out of the game in the first quarter?

Wouldn't that tighten things up, reduce blood flow etc? Seems to be the opposite of warming up, stretching etc to prevent injury.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[JeepCSC]

I don’t think anything was missed. I think the risk was assessed as acceptable for a variety of reasons, some good, some questionable. I think the risk assessment was flawed.

[Johnny Bball]

Now the last two pages, warriors fans in here acting like doctors. The exact phrase used to decry other arguments earlier in the thread. The hypocrisy of it all.

[TaylorTRoom]

I agree with Lakerz12. We have beaten this topic to death with the Little Info we have. That the Finals are still to be completed muddies the water. Over time, more info will come out. Other medical staffs will get to review the info. Rival agents will get the ear of Durant. Media will ask questions. Maybe Kawakami will go into more detail about the whispers in the GS locker/office.

[Johnny Bball]

Didn't read thru all 64 pages so it might have been discussed already, but why did they ice his Achilles area the first time he came out of the game in the first quarter?

Wouldn't that tighten things up, reduce blood flow etc? Seems to be the opposite of warming up, stretching etc to prevent injury.

I swear... Ice goes on everything mostly out of superstition. But it may have been a heat pack is all I can think.

[Son Goku 25]

Like I said before, we'll have to hear everyone's thoughts on this from each side before really concluding but evidence suggests the warriors may have had a biased opinion and rushed KD back. I think this should really knock Curry's legacy, it showed how desperate the warriors got. Yes, KD is a baller who loves to play basketball. Sometimes though, you gotta save that person from themselves as we've seen many times in the past, this is why they say it's better to be safe than sorry and I'd be furious right now if I was KD's family member. We will likely find out the entire story in the summer or next season.

[Pharmcat]

Watch on YouTube

Max Kell is a moron. We didn't milk anyone. We had no wings on the roster all year. It was literally just Durant and Iguodala that could play the 3, and Iguodala himself can't play hefty minutes...

the problem is that instead of using the MLE on another functional wing, we used on it on another big (Cousins)...that's the real issue here why Durant was overworked all year

it has nothing to do with 'milking' KD...especially considering the FO has been operating under the assumption that they were going to try their hardest to resign him long term

another BS hot take by a hot take artist Kellerman

im noticing a weird trend of people here now getting their opinions from shows like First Take, and it's starting to show on the forum in pretty bad ways

Max turned out to be right, so that makes him a moron. So the trainers/doctors/GM who turned out to be wrong, what does that make them? They must be worse than morons by that logic.

[Pharmcat]

This is correct, but you can accurately link Achilles' injuries to any injury in that leg. Any instability technically raises the chance of an Achilles' injury, because of how the player reacts to the pain. Hell, a left knee injury can be responsible for a right Achilles' injury.

Kerr went a little over the top here in saying what they thought the worst case was - reasonable worst case, maybe - but no physician in their right mind is going to say "ok, your calf is hurt - I want to hold you out of an elimination game in the Finals because this potentially could rupture your Achilles". That's just not how the sports world works.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this. When I google Achilles Tendon injury, practically every link talks about symptoms which all include tightness in the calf.

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/a/achilles-tendon-injuries.html

Who is at risk for Achilles tendon injuries?
- Tight calf muscles when starting an exercise or sport, this can place more stress on your tendon

Every sports doctor, physiotherapist and kinesiologist should be aware of this risk.

Steve Kerr did not just go over the top, he went full R, following the example set by Bob Meyers. This organization is very dishonest.

this is from one of the best sports docs I've ever had the pleasure of working with (ok, it was just members of his team, but im still gonna name drop):

Read on Twitter

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/nba/story/2019-06-11/nba-finals-kevin-durant-achilles-injury-warriors-free-agency

The first time Durant made an explosive move Monday, he had a classic Achilles injury. People in their 40s and 50s tear their Achilles because the tendon is weak. Professional athletes tear their Achilles because their gastrocnemius (calf) muscle is strong and contracts too quickly for the tendon to lengthen, and it tears.

The violent muscle contraction and “ripple” is evidence the muscle overpowered the tendon. It is like in a game of tug-of-war — if the rope breaks or the other side let’s go, the “winning side” falls down backwards in a heap. In this way, Durant had to have a strong calf muscle to tear his Achilles which speaks against a calf muscle strain.

The theory here (not fact) is that Durant had some partial injury to his Achilles that the Warriors knew about and treated appropriately with over a month’s rest and made a calculated risk/reward decision that didn’t work out.

Obviously, he believes "calf" was for the public's benefit and there was Achilles' inflammation, if not a sprain.

But you are correct as well - a weakened calf can cause Achilles' injuries - its just not what you typically see in a rupture. But my larger point was that there's a lot of domino effects in Achilles' injuries at times - a pulled quad can cause you to favor a leg, putting more stress on that knee/calf, which leads to an Achilles injury. But one thing I missed earlier that I dont agree with is the calf being tight = Achilles' being tight.. that's not necessarily true. It can be, but its not a rule of thumb.

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2013/4/22/4251626/san-diego-chargers-doctor-david-chao-has-chaotic-past