Heat Sixers Miami gets a ⭐️

[Lovetron Joe]

Miami trades Bam, Richardson, Winslow, the Ellington trade exemption and this year’s first. Philly trades Jimmy Butler.

Why for the Heat. There is rumored mutual interest with Butler but they cannot get him without a sign and trade with the Sixers. He gives them a star for the next few years and someone to attract other star players.

Why for the Sixers. They get younger players, needed depth at wing and back-up center, a decent draft choice and a high quality starter in Richardson.

[Domejandro]

Literally zero chance Miami offers all that. They offered Minnesota Dion Waiters, Josh Richardson, and Protected First for Jimmy Butler last year (and they pulled out completely when Minnesota asked for more), they aren't going to add all of that just for the privilege to give him a full max. The idea that they are going to go from that to Bam Adebayo, Josh Richardson, Justise Winslow, and a future first is not at all realistic, his value is lower than it was a year ago.

As a note, you can't add Trade Exceptions to trades like that, the exception can only take in players who are making the same amount or less.

[Kurt Heimlich]

Miami allegedly passed on a butler for jrich/pick based deal last year. Adding Winslow and bam makes this an even easier no for them. Value is significantly off here.

[BBallFreak]

Literally zero chance Miami offers all that. They offered Minnesota Dion Waiters, Josh Richardson, and Protected First for Jimmy Butler last year (and they pulled out completely when Minnesota asked for more), they aren't going to add all of that just for the privilege to give him a full max. The idea that they are going to go from that to Bam Adebayo, Josh Richardson, Justise Winslow, and a future first is not at all realistic, his value is lower than it was a year ago.

As a note, you can't add Trade Exceptions to trades like that, the exception can only take in players who are making the same amount or less.

Couldn't have said it better, myself. Absolutely no chance Miami does this.

EDIT: It's not a future first, it's this year's first. Not only do they get J-Rich, Bam, and Justise, they get this year's lottery pick!

[jbk1234]

S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

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[Hoops23]

If the Heat didnt trade J-Rich with a 1st pick last yr with minny, much more this trade.
Not worth to give those assets mentioned above and a max contract to butler

[HartfordWhalers]

This is a ridiculous ask

[Lovetron Joe]

S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

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Yes, you are right, that is the point. A sign and trade guarantees that the Heat gets Jimmy. The aforementioned in season trade for J Rich etc. that they are said to have turned down would not guarantee his signing. Thus they will have to offer more. The 13th pick in a weak 2019 draft does not have major value.

[Lovetron Joe]

This is a ridiculous ask

Then what is the right ask?

[HartfordWhalers]

This is a ridiculous ask

Then what is the right ask?

Basically what it would take to dump Waiters to a third team plus a second rounder to Philly.

[Lovetron Joe]

This is a ridiculous ask

Then what is the right ask?

Basically what it would take to dump Waiters to a third team plus a second rounder to Philly.

And what would it take to dump Waiters? Let's assume a 2nd. Are you saying Philly should take 2 seconds to facilitate Miami signing Butler? That does not seem like a reasonable trade (for Philly). Why would the Sixers do that?

[BBallFreak]

S&T generally don't return as much as regular trades because there's an understanding that the player is leaving anyway and the acquiring team could always pay to clear the space. This is a bit of an overpay given that reality.

Having said that, none of these guys are blue chip prospects, it won't be easy or cheap for the Heat to clear the amount of money necessary to sign Butler outright, and once Butler does sign somewhere else, the window will have likely closed. The Sixers aren't taking back garbage contracts and a late lottery pick in a weak draft. The Heat are going to have offer revalue.

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Yes, you are right, that is the point. A sign and trade guarantees that the Heat gets Jimmy. The aforementioned in season trade for J Rich etc. that they are said to have turned down would not guarantee his signing. Thus they will have to offer more. The 13th pick in a weak 2019 draft does not have major value.

No one is suggesting that Philly should take Waiters and James Johnson and be happy about it, but this is a HUGE overpay. This is what we'd offer for AD, not Jimmy Butler.

I think Hartford left out the fact that you might get Josh Richardson, Waiters, and our pick, but Waiters won't get taken away for a mere second rounder. That pick would go to the third team.

[gom]

If Pat Riley makes this deal, we'll ship him out too.

[jbk1234]

I think a fair offer is J.Rich, JJ and No. 13, or J.Rich for Butler with No.13 following JJ to a third team.

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[HartfordWhalers]

Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.

[jbk1234]

Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.

Assuming Whiteside opts in, if he hasn't already, the Heat need to clear $40M to offer Butler a max? The Nets need to renounce Russell and get someone to take one of their good role players. The Heat need to make it worth it for the Sixers.

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[Dr_Heat]

[Mamba4Goat]

We don't do just gif comments on here. Either add to and further the conversation or don't post.

[the_process]

If the Sixers are getting practically nothing, then there’s no point to facilitating. They should just tell Jimmy take the 188M or go somewhere that can sign you free and clear.

However, if Miami can dump a lot of bad long term money, say D.Waiters and J.Johnson; then adding 13 and J.Richardson for S&T J.Butler should work for both sides.

[HartfordWhalers]

Here was my view on what was fair:

Waiters + Miami incentive to let’s say Atlanta

2nd rounder (and cash) to Philly

Butler to Miami.

If Miami needs more outgoing salary, just add more above to (Atlanta) and more incentive.

Basically, Miami might have to pay to dump salary but that is to dump salary. Philly should get almost nothing for Butler. The third team is added to make clear this distinction.

Assuming Whiteside opts in, if he hasn't already, the Heat need to clear $40M to offer Butler a max? The Nets need to renounce Russell and get someone to take one of their good role players. The Heat need to make it worth it for the Sixers.

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Oh,I'm not saying a sign and trade is easy for a team with a bunch of bad salary.

I am saying that a team should expect to get no more than a 2nd rounder for a free agent.