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2019 Off-Season Questions

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#561 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:02 am

MUpacersSIC wrote:the issue is who else will the Pacers ever be able to get?


why so pessimistic? we won 48 without Vic. how did we do that if we can never get anyone?

Sent from my phone.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#562 » by MUpacersSIC » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:25 am

Wizop wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:the issue is who else will the Pacers ever be able to get?


why so pessimistic? we won 48 without Vic. how did we do that if we can never get anyone?

Sent from my phone.


I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic about the Pacers chances with free agents. Literally the best free agent the Pacers have EVER gotten was David West. He was older at the time as well. I think this year they have a legitimate chance to get a 2nd/3rd tier guy (Middleton/Russell), but getting someone better than that in free agency is highly unlikely. The best way for the Pacers to get talent is via draft or trade. That's why I've been more open to trading Sabonis (although it kills me) for a young wing with lots of potential (Jaylen Brown-esque).

I personally would sign Middleton ($28mil), Bojan ($18mil), and trade Sabonis for Jaylen Brown/#22 pick. I feel like this would be a really good starting lineup. Bench would need some work/development.

Starters:
G Victor Oladipo
G Jaylen Brown
F Bojan Bogdanovic
F Khris Middleton
C Myles Turner

Bench:
Aaron Holiday
Doug McDermott
TJ Leaf
#18 Pick (Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Nassir Little, Romeo Langford, etc.)
#22 Pick (Luka Samanic, Matisse Thybulle, Nic Claxton, etc.)

And you never know about the development of Alize or Sumner.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#563 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:23 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:
Wizop wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:the issue is who else will the Pacers ever be able to get?


why so pessimistic? we won 48 without Vic. how did we do that if we can never get anyone?

Sent from my phone.


I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic about the Pacers chances with free agents. Literally the best free agent the Pacers have EVER gotten was David West. He was older at the time as well. I think this year they have a legitimate chance to get a 2nd/3rd tier guy (Middleton/Russell), but getting someone better than that in free agency is highly unlikely. The best way for the Pacers to get talent is via draft or trade. That's why I've been more open to trading Sabonis (although it kills me) for a young wing with lots of potential (Jaylen Brown-esque).

I personally would sign Middleton ($28mil), Bojan ($18mil), and trade Sabonis for Jaylen Brown/#22 pick. I feel like this would be a really good starting lineup. Bench would need some work/development.

Starters:
G Victor Oladipo
G Jaylen Brown
F Bojan Bogdanovic
F Khris Middleton
C Myles Turner

Bench:
Aaron Holiday
Doug McDermott
TJ Leaf
#18 Pick (Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Nassir Little, Romeo Langford, etc.)
#22 Pick (Luka Samanic, Matisse Thybulle, Nic Claxton, etc.)

And you never know about the development of Alize or Sumner.



Better draft Luke or Claxton in that scenario. They’d be our only PF on the roster.

Also, West was coming off a torn ACL that ended his previous season and had teams doubting if he’d be ready to play the next year. He wanted Boston, but they only offered one year and lesser money. He wanted longer term and came to us for more money. Worked out great for us.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#564 » by Pacers_Freak » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:59 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:
Wizop wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:the issue is who else will the Pacers ever be able to get?


why so pessimistic? we won 48 without Vic. how did we do that if we can never get anyone?

Sent from my phone.


I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic about the Pacers chances with free agents. Literally the best free agent the Pacers have EVER gotten was David West. He was older at the time as well. I think this year they have a legitimate chance to get a 2nd/3rd tier guy (Middleton/Russell), but getting someone better than that in free agency is highly unlikely. The best way for the Pacers to get talent is via draft or trade. That's why I've been more open to trading Sabonis (although it kills me) for a young wing with lots of potential (Jaylen Brown-esque).

I personally would sign Middleton ($28mil), Bojan ($18mil), and trade Sabonis for Jaylen Brown/#22 pick. I feel like this would be a really good starting lineup. Bench would need some work/development.

Starters:
G Victor Oladipo
G Jaylen Brown
F Bojan Bogdanovic
F Khris Middleton
C Myles Turner

Bench:
Aaron Holiday
Doug McDermott
TJ Leaf
#18 Pick (Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Nassir Little, Romeo Langford, etc.)
#22 Pick (Luka Samanic, Matisse Thybulle, Nic Claxton, etc.)

And you never know about the development of Alize or Sumner.


That is a small small team right there. Better have some big men willing to come in for cheap.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#565 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:36 pm

I'm warming to the idea of OKC dumping a contract on us and giving us the 21. they're saying the pick is in play if they can make a win now move. now I'd certainly sign and trade Young or Collison if that excites them but if just giving them room to sign someone gets us a pick, I really like the 20's in this draft.

I'd also be talking to Boston and Atlanta about their multiple picks.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#566 » by Tom White » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:21 pm

Wizop wrote:I'm warming to the idea of OKC dumping a contract on us and giving us the 21. they're saying the pick is in play if they can make a win now move. now I'd certainly sign and trade Young or Collison if that excites them but if just giving them room to sign someone gets us a pick, I really like the 20's in this draft.

I'd also be talking to Boston and Atlanta about their multiple picks.


Any idea on which contract(s) they would want to dump?

I'm thinking it would likely be Schroeder, in which case I don't think I would be interested.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#567 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Wizop wrote:I'm warming to the idea of OKC dumping a contract on us and giving us the 21. they're saying the pick is in play if they can make a win now move. now I'd certainly sign and trade Young or Collison if that excites them but if just giving them room to sign someone gets us a pick, I really like the 20's in this draft.

I'd also be talking to Boston and Atlanta about their multiple picks.


Remember, OKC cannot even negotiate a potential deal with Thad and Collison until a week after the draft. I doubt they’d want to pick someone for us at 21 and then just hope that Thad/Collison even want to go to Okc, let alone agree to a deal. If they want a player from us, it’s got to be someone on the roster currently. Not someone that’s a free agent.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#568 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:I'm warming to the idea of OKC dumping a contract on us and giving us the 21. they're saying the pick is in play if they can make a win now move. now I'd certainly sign and trade Young or Collison if that excites them but if just giving them room to sign someone gets us a pick, I really like the 20's in this draft.

I'd also be talking to Boston and Atlanta about their multiple picks.


Any idea on which contract(s) they would want to dump?

I'm thinking it would likely be Schroeder, in which case I don't think I would be interested.


Smaller side is Patrick Patterson and Andre roberson. Much larger deal is Dennis Schroeder. Maybe we could net the 21 for eating Patterson/Roberson and giving them the 50?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#569 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:I'm warming to the idea of OKC dumping a contract on us and giving us the 21. they're saying the pick is in play if they can make a win now move. now I'd certainly sign and trade Young or Collison if that excites them but if just giving them room to sign someone gets us a pick, I really like the 20's in this draft.

I'd also be talking to Boston and Atlanta about their multiple picks.


Any idea on which contract(s) they would want to dump?

I'm thinking it would likely be Schroeder, in which case I don't think I would be interested.


Smaller side is Patrick Patterson and Andre roberson. Much larger deal is Dennis Schroeder. Maybe we could net the 21 for eating Patterson/Roberson and giving them the 50?


In theory, we could do this deal, keep Bojan on his cap hold, and re sign Thad for up to $14m in his first year. If we gave him 3 years, that’s an offer that would likely keep him around.

Or, if Bojan was renounced or we wanted to leave, we would have almost $28m in space, enough to offer a max sheet to Russell.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#570 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Smaller side is Patrick Patterson and Andre roberson. Much larger deal is Dennis Schroeder. Maybe we could net the 21 for eating Patterson/Roberson and giving them the 50?


I'd look at that. I suspect they are thinking getting players rather than cap room but it never hurts to talk. trade board talk is focused on Adams who doesn't fit a need here unless perhaps we're doing the big trade which I'm not ready for and having Turner play 4. Adams is certainly the body type that kills us but there do not seem to be a lot of guys like him in the playoff survivors except maybe Embiid so I'm not excited about getting a big body defender. Roberson would provide D on the wing and Paterson has range.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#571 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:in theory, we could ...


head spins. easy to see why cap specialist is a full time job. I'm glad Pritchard is figuring this out and not me.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#572 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:51 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Remember, OKC cannot even negotiate a potential deal with Thad and Collison until a week after the draft. I doubt they’d want to pick someone for us at 21 and then just hope that Thad/Collison even want to go to Okc, let alone agree to a deal. If they want a player from us, it’s got to be someone on the roster currently. Not someone that’s a free agent.


well there are wink, wink deals. the A Davis for Bender was done that way as I remember and couldn't be announced officially for a few weeks.

I get your point though since our free agents are unrestricted. if the goal is multiple picks, trading down may be easier than taking on a contract.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#573 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:47 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Remember, OKC cannot even negotiate a potential deal with Thad and Collison until a week after the draft. I doubt they’d want to pick someone for us at 21 and then just hope that Thad/Collison even want to go to Okc, let alone agree to a deal. If they want a player from us, it’s got to be someone on the roster currently. Not someone that’s a free agent.


well there are wink, wink deals. the A Davis for Bender was done that way as I remember and couldn't be announced officially for a few weeks.

I get your point though since our free agents are unrestricted. if the goal is multiple picks, trading down may be easier than taking on a contract.


Antonio wasn’t a S&T. He was under contract and then extended on a max after that deal. The reason it waited was because of cap space and new year and the like.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#574 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:49 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Smaller side is Patrick Patterson and Andre roberson. Much larger deal is Dennis Schroeder. Maybe we could net the 21 for eating Patterson/Roberson and giving them the 50?


I'd look at that. I suspect they are thinking getting players rather than cap room but it never hurts to talk. trade board talk is focused on Adams who doesn't fit a need here unless perhaps we're doing the big trade which I'm not ready for and having Turner play 4. Adams is certainly the body type that kills us but there do not seem to be a lot of guys like him in the playoff survivors except maybe Embiid so I'm not excited about getting a big body defender. Roberson would provide D on the wing and Paterson has range.


At this point, Adams is much more mobile defensively than Ibaka and Gasol. And Brook and Embiid. So he’d fit in the East for sure. But, no use adding him unless we’re trading Dom for a long term answer at the wing or PG.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#575 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:13 pm

With rumors of the Pelicans liking the Lakers trade package for AD, but their hopes of finding a 3rd team and turning the #4 pick into a more established player, if you could get the #4 by trading Dom Sabonis, would you? Even if it also required the #18? Would that be a "re-tooling" move you would be willing to do?

Me? It's hard to say. It'd be nice to get one of the top wings (Barrett or Culver) or one of the top combo forwards (Hunter or Clarke), but are those draftees good enough to me to give up Dom? I just don't know.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#576 » by pacers33granger » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:22 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Me? It's hard to say. It'd be nice to get one of the top wings (Barrett or Culver) or one of the top combo forwards (Hunter or Clarke), but are those draftees good enough to me to give up Dom? I just don't know.


For Domas alone, maybe. With 18? Easy no imo unless Barrett is there.

Beyond the potential and talent he has, I also worry about the potential effect on Vic and Myles if he's traded. He's obviously trade buddies with Vic. With Myles I think some outsiders misinterpret the situation as a Jokic/Nurkic one. But they're good friends and push each other. I'm of the opinion that both benefit from the friendly competition of earning minutes and trying to work it out where they can play together. Not saying it would be huge, but I think it's more than just losing our 6th man and his potential.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#577 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:25 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:With rumors of the Pelicans liking the Lakers trade package for AD, but their hopes of finding a 3rd team and turning the #4 pick into a more established player, if you could get the #4 by trading Dom Sabonis, would you?


I don't think Pritchard would unless there was a player coming back such as Kuzma, too. He showed in the PG negotiations that he prefers getting players he's seen in the Association to picks because your evaluation is much more accurate. everyone misses on some picks. there's a strong case for getting as many picks as you can just to allow for misses.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#578 » by 8305 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:15 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:With rumors of the Pelicans liking the Lakers trade package for AD, but their hopes of finding a 3rd team and turning the #4 pick into a more established player, if you could get the #4 by trading Dom Sabonis, would you? Even if it also required the #18? Would that be a "re-tooling" move you would be willing to do?

Me? It's hard to say. It'd be nice to get one of the top wings (Barrett or Culver) or one of the top combo forwards (Hunter or Clarke), but are those draftees good enough to me to give up Dom? I just don't know.


I think both Hunter and Culver are interesting players. Virginia guys have tended to outplay their draft position (Brogdan and Harris). And, the way Culver blew up from freshman to sophomore year reminds me of PG13. I can see where you would rather get a Jalen Brown for Domas but, I hate the ideas of playing against Domas for the next 10 years.

Best guess, you would have a choice of either Hunter or Culver at 4. I’d probably do that deal. Don’t think throwing pick 18 in should be necessary.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#579 » by Wizop » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:42 pm

if it takes 15 to 18 to resign Thad, would anyone want to take a run at Julius Randle instead?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#580 » by Tom White » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:17 pm

Wizop wrote:if it takes 15 to 18 to resign Thad, would anyone want to take a run at Julius Randle instead?


I think I would. You lose defense, but gain scoring and rebounding.

The problem becomes playing time and starting positions between Myles, Domas and Randle. None of them will be happy for long coming off the bench. Of course, the same problem can arise with Myles, Domas and Thad, but I think Thad would be more likely to accept a bench role at some point.

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