2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

[Clyde Frazier]

A lot of moves already made and we haven't even hit the draft yet. Praying to the basketball gods that my Knicks don't throw huge $ at second tier guys. All I ask for

https://stats.nba.com/transactions/

[CKRT]

By the way, it might be beside the point, but Chris Paul has come out an categorically denied having made a trade request. Morey has apparently also denied that Chris requested a trade.

This doesn't erase all the team drama in which he's played a large role, but it's a little different them him trying to abandon ship after poking holes in the hull.

Yup, and in the end all this speculation is really just entertainment previewing what we'd possibly conclude if things went a certain way.

But the way people are coming out and talking about the hellish work environment between Harden & Paul is ugly and all too believable.

Yeah, I think there’s too much smoke to ignore that there might be tension. We just don’t know how deep that tension actually is.

I’d expect that Yahoo’s source for the whole thing is one of the coaches that got fired though, so I’m not sure how much weight to give that report. All the Houston beat writers denied that it was anything like it was reported. CP3 and Morey are denying it across the board. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

[Senior]

lot of eyes on houston. have to think that they'd be better off just making this year work and if they can't win this year, trade paul (or harden). gs probably won't just throw the year away but KD is done for the year and klay will need several months to return

i've seen teams struggling with internal turmoil put their feelings aside and turn it on for the playoffs (kobe-shaq). it's hard but not impossible.

[Doctor MJ]

By the way, it might be beside the point, but Chris Paul has come out an categorically denied having made a trade request. Morey has apparently also denied that Chris requested a trade.

This doesn't erase all the team drama in which he's played a large role, but it's a little different them him trying to abandon ship after poking holes in the hull.

Yup, and in the end all this speculation is really just entertainment previewing what we'd possibly conclude if things went a certain way.

But the way people are coming out and talking about the hellish work environment between Harden & Paul is ugly and all too believable.

Yeah, I think there’s too much smoke to ignore that there might be tension. We just don’t know how deep that tension actually is.

I’d expect that Yahoo’s source for the whole thing is one of the coaches that got fired though, so I’m not sure how much weight to give that report. All the Houston beat writers denied that it was anything like it was reported. CP3 and Morey are denying it across the board. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Well I'm not tracing sources here but what I've heard is:

1) Paul is irritated with his lack of primacy.
2) Harden is irritated with Paul's nagging.
3) Teammates are sitting in silence while the two stars yell at each other.

And it seems believable because it's normal for stars to complain about lack of primacy, and Paul is the naggiest nag in the 21st century of the NBA, and non-star teammates frequently have to deal with stars behaving badly.

[Doctor MJ]

lot of eyes on houston. have to think that they'd be better off just making this year work and if they can't win this year, trade paul (or harden). gs probably won't just throw the year away but KD is done for the year and klay will need several months to return

i've seen teams struggling with internal turmoil put their feelings aside and turn it on for the playoffs (kobe-shaq). it's hard but not impossible.

Yeah from a pragmatic perspective, if you trade Paul you're not getting good things back. That contract was essentially designed to have a couple good bites of the apple before it became an albatross. With GS in the state they are in, the right move for all involved in Houston is just to swallow pride and to their best for another year.

And of course if they are able to do that successfully, Paul & Harden may exhibit much more mature behavior.Here's hoping.

[Senior]

lot of eyes on houston. have to think that they'd be better off just making this year work and if they can't win this year, trade paul (or harden). gs probably won't just throw the year away but KD is done for the year and klay will need several months to return

i've seen teams struggling with internal turmoil put their feelings aside and turn it on for the playoffs (kobe-shaq). it's hard but not impossible.

Yeah from a pragmatic perspective, if you trade Paul you're not getting good things back. That contract was essentially designed to have a couple good bites of the apple before it became an albatross. With GS in the state they are in, the right move for all involved in Houston is just to swallow pride and to their best for another year.

And of course if they are able to do that successfully, Paul & Harden may exhibit much more mature behavior.Here's hoping.

yeah they had to max him but i figured they'd get 3 good years of CP3 at most. there is no clear western contender with GS taking a step down without KD (utah took a big step forward, LA maybe too) but if they can get to like 80% of what they were in 2018 they can make it out of the west. then they can go their separate ways.

[Doctor MJ]

lot of eyes on houston. have to think that they'd be better off just making this year work and if they can't win this year, trade paul (or harden). gs probably won't just throw the year away but KD is done for the year and klay will need several months to return

i've seen teams struggling with internal turmoil put their feelings aside and turn it on for the playoffs (kobe-shaq). it's hard but not impossible.

Yeah from a pragmatic perspective, if you trade Paul you're not getting good things back. That contract was essentially designed to have a couple good bites of the apple before it became an albatross. With GS in the state they are in, the right move for all involved in Houston is just to swallow pride and to their best for another year.

And of course if they are able to do that successfully, Paul & Harden may exhibit much more mature behavior.Here's hoping.

yeah they had to max him but i figured they'd get 3 good years of CP3 at most. there is no clear western contender with GS taking a step down without KD (utah took a big step forward, LA maybe too) but if they can get to like 80% of what they were in 2018 they can make it out of the west. then they can go their separate ways.

I just find myself exasperated by the two stars here. You literally had an entire year to figure out how to work together before Paul got his long-term contract, this was part of what you had to figure out. To get to this point 2 years in after just signing the new contract puts it in the category of "Well there's nothing you can do when your stars are petulant cry babies.", which sucks because we should be blasting ownership here for their general behavior...but I don't think better ownership could have been expected to make the two of them get along.

[Basileus777]

Houston would have to give up assets to unload Paul. They need to sit him down and tell him he is playing in Houston next season unless he intends to retire.

[Dr Spaceman]

Yup, and in the end all this speculation is really just entertainment previewing what we'd possibly conclude if things went a certain way.

But the way people are coming out and talking about the hellish work environment between Harden & Paul is ugly and all too believable.

Yeah, I think there’s too much smoke to ignore that there might be tension. We just don’t know how deep that tension actually is.

I’d expect that Yahoo’s source for the whole thing is one of the coaches that got fired though, so I’m not sure how much weight to give that report. All the Houston beat writers denied that it was anything like it was reported. CP3 and Morey are denying it across the board. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Well I'm not tracing sources here but what I've heard is:

1) Paul is irritated with his lack of primacy.
2) Harden is irritated with Paul's nagging.
3) Teammates are sitting in silence while the two stars yell at each other.

And it seems believable because it's normal for stars to complain about lack of primacy, and Paul is the naggiest nag in the 21st century of the NBA, and non-star teammates frequently have to deal with stars behaving badly.

I think Harden has always had this kind of “fall in line” mentality. Through his public comments it’s very clear he expects everything to revolve around him (a few years back he made comments to the effect of “doesn’t really matter who we have around me &Dwight because they’re role payers” and the whole special lockers thing).

So Paul acting like the ring leader while not having the game to back it up is probably particularly irritating to Harden, especially as Harden had to carry such a ridiculous load this year while Paul was injured/loafing. To be fair it would be irrritating to most people I think, I really chafe at micro-managers and if one was barking at me while making twice as much money as me and not being half the employee I am (at this stage of his career) I’d probably lose it too.

[Jaivl]

I wonder how badly Rubio really wants to stay in the NBA. If I were him, if no team wanted me as their starting point guard, I might go home and be a hero in Spain.

That won't happen.

You'd know better than me. Can you explain why it won't happen?

Multiple reasons, actually.

Most importantly, fair or not Rubio does not have that good of a reputation in FIBA since his wunderkid years on Badalona. And, personal opinion, Euro ball doesn't favor him one bit.
The reputation difference, ITO recognition, sponsors and such, is huge. At this point in time, despite being the #2 league in the world, ACB is just not seen as a viable destination for any NBA starter in his prime (Rudy and Garbajosa did it, but under much different circumstances).
Ricky has a lot of humanitarian programs on the States and I don't think he will drop those.
Don't think Ricky will have a problem being a bench player. He was a bench player on the spanish NT for many years.

[Dupp]

Yeah from a pragmatic perspective, if you trade Paul you're not getting good things back. That contract was essentially designed to have a couple good bites of the apple before it became an albatross. With GS in the state they are in, the right move for all involved in Houston is just to swallow pride and to their best for another year.

And of course if they are able to do that successfully, Paul & Harden may exhibit much more mature behavior.Here's hoping.

yeah they had to max him but i figured they'd get 3 good years of CP3 at most. there is no clear western contender with GS taking a step down without KD (utah took a big step forward, LA maybe too) but if they can get to like 80% of what they were in 2018 they can make it out of the west. then they can go their separate ways.

I just find myself exasperated by the two stars here. You literally had an entire year to figure out how to work together before Paul got his long-term contract, this was part of what you had to figure out. To get to this point 2 years in after just signing the new contract puts it in the category of "Well there's nothing you can do when your stars are petulant cry babies.", which sucks because we should be blasting ownership here for their general behavior...but I don't think better ownership could have been expected to make the two of them get along.

They kind of did didn’t they? They worked great together in their roles, the team was all kind of good. Paul got inured and then this past season was kind of a mess for the rockets. Paul was way way worse. Whatever problems they’re having either didn’t matter or they weren’t having a year ago.

[E-Balla]

Yeah, I think there’s too much smoke to ignore that there might be tension. We just don’t know how deep that tension actually is.

I’d expect that Yahoo’s source for the whole thing is one of the coaches that got fired though, so I’m not sure how much weight to give that report. All the Houston beat writers denied that it was anything like it was reported. CP3 and Morey are denying it across the board. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Well I'm not tracing sources here but what I've heard is:

1) Paul is irritated with his lack of primacy.
2) Harden is irritated with Paul's nagging.
3) Teammates are sitting in silence while the two stars yell at each other.

And it seems believable because it's normal for stars to complain about lack of primacy, and Paul is the naggiest nag in the 21st century of the NBA, and non-star teammates frequently have to deal with stars behaving badly.

I think Harden has always had this kind of “fall in line” mentality. Through his public comments it’s very clear he expects everything to revolve around him (a few years back he made comments to the effect of “doesn’t really matter who we have around me &Dwight because they’re role payers” and the whole special lockers thing).

So Paul acting like the ring leader while not having the game to back it up is probably particularly irritating to Harden, especially as Harden had to carry such a ridiculous load this year while Paul was injured/loafing. To be fair it would be irrritating to most people I think, I really chafe at micro-managers and if one was barking at me while making twice as much money as me and not being half the employee I am (at this stage of his career) I’d probably lose it too.

The fall in line thing is 100% true and I think it shows in the reports that apparently someone that joined the team back when Harden v Dwight was peaking was directly told he has to pick a side between them by the other role players.

It's like Harden sees it as a highschool with a clear hierarchy and not grown men working where the only hierarchy is the contracts.

But on that note CP3 is just... Ugh...

[E-Balla]

Anyone else keeping up with this Almeda County Sheriffs Office f***ery with Masai? Originally he punched the officer giving him a concussion and causing a hospital visit, then eye witnesses said he just pushed the officer softly after being shoved, then the police said the officer had a bodycam that proved Masai struck him in the face but they couldn't release it for the investigation, now after prodding from some great reporters they're saying the bodycam shut off the second Masai struck the officer.

Yeah I totally believe the bodycam magically cut off the exact second Masai started to strike because as we all know he's the Nigerian Saitama.

[Colbinii]

Anyone else keeping up with this Almeda County Sheriffs Office f***ery with Masai? Originally he punched the officer giving him a concussion and causing a hospital visit, then eye witnesses said he just pushed the officer softly after being shoved, then the police said the officer had a bodycam that proved Masai struck him in the face but they couldn't release it for the investigation, now after prodding from some great reporters they're saying the bodycam shut off the second Masai struck the officer.

Yeah I totally believe the bodycam magically cut off the exact second Masai started to strike because as we all know he's the Nigerian Saitama.

There is no coincidence this happened in the white and money filled Oracle Arena.

[Peregrine01]

Yeah, I think there’s too much smoke to ignore that there might be tension. We just don’t know how deep that tension actually is.

I’d expect that Yahoo’s source for the whole thing is one of the coaches that got fired though, so I’m not sure how much weight to give that report. All the Houston beat writers denied that it was anything like it was reported. CP3 and Morey are denying it across the board. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Well I'm not tracing sources here but what I've heard is:

1) Paul is irritated with his lack of primacy.
2) Harden is irritated with Paul's nagging.
3) Teammates are sitting in silence while the two stars yell at each other.

And it seems believable because it's normal for stars to complain about lack of primacy, and Paul is the naggiest nag in the 21st century of the NBA, and non-star teammates frequently have to deal with stars behaving badly.

I think Harden has always had this kind of “fall in line” mentality. Through his public comments it’s very clear he expects everything to revolve around him (a few years back he made comments to the effect of “doesn’t really matter who we have around me &Dwight because they’re role payers”.

Kinda makes you wonder about Harden as a leader. To me, he always seemed a bit too interested in his individual accolades given his aggressive campaigning for MVP awards and his comments about not needing some marquee free agents in the past.

[eminence]

I am perpetually impressed by the Warriors ownership willingness to spend money.

[Clyde Frazier]

Anyone else keeping up with this Almeda County Sheriffs Office f***ery with Masai? Originally he punched the officer giving him a concussion and causing a hospital visit, then eye witnesses said he just pushed the officer softly after being shoved, then the police said the officer had a bodycam that proved Masai struck him in the face but they couldn't release it for the investigation, now after prodding from some great reporters they're saying the bodycam shut off the second Masai struck the officer.

Yeah I totally believe the bodycam magically cut off the exact second Masai started to strike because as we all know he's the Nigerian Saitama.

From a Globe and Mail article:

But according to police spokesperson Sergeant Ray Kelly, Ujiri showed his identification "in a very threatening kind of way."

What does that even mean?!

[Not being naive, I know what they're doing. It's just so absurd.]

[Doctor MJ]

Well I'm not tracing sources here but what I've heard is:

1) Paul is irritated with his lack of primacy.
2) Harden is irritated with Paul's nagging.
3) Teammates are sitting in silence while the two stars yell at each other.

And it seems believable because it's normal for stars to complain about lack of primacy, and Paul is the naggiest nag in the 21st century of the NBA, and non-star teammates frequently have to deal with stars behaving badly.

I think Harden has always had this kind of “fall in line” mentality. Through his public comments it’s very clear he expects everything to revolve around him (a few years back he made comments to the effect of “doesn’t really matter who we have around me &Dwight because they’re role payers”.

Kinda makes you wonder about Harden as a leader. To me, he always seemed a bit too interested in his individual accolades given his aggressive campaigning for MVP awards and his comments about not needing some marquee free agents in the past.

I don’t think there’s a lot to wonder about. Everything that’s come out over time behind the scenes seems to point in the same direction, and it’s not good. He seems selfish and tone deaf.

What’s weird to me about it is that this isn’t a LeBron situation where he’s always been the alpha of his team. Harden came to the NBA eagerly looking to prove his worth by working with other players (Durant and Westbrook), and he absolutely succeeded.

The transition is remarkable, fascinating, and a little sad. I wonder how he would tell his story.


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[Doctor MJ]

yeah they had to max him but i figured they'd get 3 good years of CP3 at most. there is no clear western contender with GS taking a step down without KD (utah took a big step forward, LA maybe too) but if they can get to like 80% of what they were in 2018 they can make it out of the west. then they can go their separate ways.

I just find myself exasperated by the two stars here. You literally had an entire year to figure out how to work together before Paul got his long-term contract, this was part of what you had to figure out. To get to this point 2 years in after just signing the new contract puts it in the category of "Well there's nothing you can do when your stars are petulant cry babies.", which sucks because we should be blasting ownership here for their general behavior...but I don't think better ownership could have been expected to make the two of them get along.

They kind of did didn’t they? They worked great together in their roles, the team was all kind of good. Paul got inured and then this past season was kind of a mess for the rockets. Paul was way way worse. Whatever problems they’re having either didn’t matter or they weren’t having a year ago.

Nothing that happened this year in terms of injuries and aging was unpredictable. They are fools if they didn’t take the inevitable into account on a relationship level.

Two extremely smart fools, but fools none the less.

Anyway were I to guess:

I think Harden bottled up and exploded. I think he always had ambivalent feelings about Paul but everything made too much sense for him to justify saying know.

I think Paul didn’t realize how much his motor mouth was causing Harden toward an explosion like this, because of Harden’s bottle up. He frankly seems stubborn enough he might not have cared before the fact, but I think now he realizes he’s made things much worse for himself and he has to walk it back.

I think the further concentration of primacy that happened this year both irritated Paul and trimmed the beard’s fuse, and that led to this happening now, but I think it was never going to take much strife before the relationship turned sour.


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[E-Balla]

Anyone else keeping up with this Almeda County Sheriffs Office f***ery with Masai? Originally he punched the officer giving him a concussion and causing a hospital visit, then eye witnesses said he just pushed the officer softly after being shoved, then the police said the officer had a bodycam that proved Masai struck him in the face but they couldn't release it for the investigation, now after prodding from some great reporters they're saying the bodycam shut off the second Masai struck the officer.

Yeah I totally believe the bodycam magically cut off the exact second Masai started to strike because as we all know he's the Nigerian Saitama.

There is no coincidence this happened in the white and money filled United States of America.

Decided to fix that right quick.