Summer 2019 Free Agency Thread

[Arsenal]

We didn’t go all in. Lakers went all in. Sixers are net neutral with FRPs, many extra 2nds, several decent young guys.

45 million for what? If you guys think no one is signing here now Covington’s bum knee wouldn’t have made a difference.

There’s not gonna be cap space next summer with Ben (and Dario had you kept him). It was go time. We’ve talking about that timing for years, people are just getting cold feet now.

We punted on FA THIS summer (not next summer as you tried to straw man) by making those deals and burning assets in the process. And we're STILL at risk of losing one or both of Butler and Harris. And to keep them we're forced to overpay.

We should have tried to sign stars this summer, and THEN made trades for stars if it didn't work.

We tried that last summer and it didn’t work. They didn’t even get meetings. They decided to get off the sidelines and make something happen.

We can still sign stars this summer. We have even more than 45 in cap space. Again, I ask, if you don’t think anyone wants to come here now, do you really think having Cov here would make a difference?

1st of all, we did get a meeting w/LeBron. Yes I understand it was a courtesy meeting, but no one else got one besides us.

2nd of all, how foolish would it be to base our decision making on a sample size of 1 summer? If you know anything about statistics you'll know that is ridiculous. There are a large amount of stars and players available this summer, way more than last summer. To say because we missed on LeBron + PG last summer means we would whiff on everyone this summer is totally illogical.

And where did I say no one wants to come here now? Another straw man. We're not even trying to get anyone now because we're ALL-IN w/overpaying Butler and Harris.

[AirP.]

They are about $20m over the cap. In order to sign Jimmy outright, they would need to clear over $50m.

They would have to deplete their roster and trade future 1sts. They dont have a 2021 1st anymore, so they are limited in what they can do

Miami has much cheaper options
For starters, they have an expiring contract of Whiteside to use, while someone may not take all that (~27 mil), they may take that bigger 1-year contract to get rid of a longer term smaller contact. They also have R.Anderson and Dragic who could also be utilized to open up some space, then of course the 1st round picks could be tossed in to drop even more salary. They probably wouldn't have to move Richardson, Bam or Winslow to get the room.

Miami would need to include many picks to dump Whiteside and Anderson.

This is what they currently have. Cant trade 2020 or 2022 picks since you cant trade back to back. They have very little to offer to clear all that space. They are not an option

2020: One first round pick; no second round picks
2021: No first round picks; no second round picks
2022: One first round pick; one second round pick
2023: One first round pick; no second round picks
2024: One first round pick; one second round pick
2025: One first round pick; one second round pick

No, there are possible options. Off the top of my head, Minnesota. If they find out they can't get Russell, they'd probably be all over Dieng for Whiteside type trade which would cut 10 million off Miami's payroll right now since it would clear off 17 million off Minnesota's payroll next year and have a better player this year.

[fl311]

We punted on FA THIS summer (not next summer as you tried to straw man) by making those deals and burning assets in the process. And we're STILL at risk of losing one or both of Butler and Harris. And to keep them we're forced to overpay.

We should have tried to sign stars this summer, and THEN made trades for stars if it didn't work.

We tried that last summer and it didn’t work. They didn’t even get meetings. They decided to get off the sidelines and make something happen.

We can still sign stars this summer. We have even more than 45 in cap space. Again, I ask, if you don’t think anyone wants to come here now, do you really think having Cov here would make a difference?

1st of all, we did get a meeting w/LeBron. Yes I understand it was a courtesy meeting, but no one else got one besides us.

2nd of all, how foolish would it be to base our decision making on a sample size of 1 summer? If you know anything about statistics you'll know that is ridiculous. There are a large amount of stars and players available this summer, way more than last summer. To say because we missed on LeBron + PG last summer means we would whiff on everyone this summer is totally illogical.

And where did I say no one wants to come here now? Another straw man. We're not even trying to get anyone now because we're ALL-IN w/overpaying Butler and Harris.

You are incorrect on most of this.

The Lebron meeting was nothing but a courtesy. It meant nothing and he was never signing with Sixers. They got no other meetings.

Philly is not a top place for FAs, when competing with NY and LA.

Keeping the same roster last year probably would have led to a 1st rd exit and Brown being fired.

You are then stuck with Covington and Saric who would have much less value than last year. Then you are still competing with other teams for top Free Agents and having no leverage to offer 5 year max deals to anyone else.

You would not be getting meetings with Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, Klay, etc.

What they did last year was best for the organization to win now and have options on keeping the core together for the next 3-4 years.

You need to let it go and see the big picture.

[fl311]

Miami has much cheaper options
For starters, they have an expiring contract of Whiteside to use, while someone may not take all that (~27 mil), they may take that bigger 1-year contract to get rid of a longer term smaller contact. They also have R.Anderson and Dragic who could also be utilized to open up some space, then of course the 1st round picks could be tossed in to drop even more salary. They probably wouldn't have to move Richardson, Bam or Winslow to get the room.

Miami would need to include many picks to dump Whiteside and Anderson.

This is what they currently have. Cant trade 2020 or 2022 picks since you cant trade back to back. They have very little to offer to clear all that space. They are not an option

2020: One first round pick; no second round picks
2021: No first round picks; no second round picks
2022: One first round pick; one second round pick
2023: One first round pick; no second round picks
2024: One first round pick; one second round pick
2025: One first round pick; one second round pick

No, there are possible options. Off the top of my head, Minnesota. If they find out they can't get Russell, they'd probably be all over Dieng for Whiteside type trade which would cut 10 million off Miami's payroll right now since it would clear off 17 million off Minnesota's payroll next year and have a better player this year.

And why would Miami take on Dieng when they only save $10m? How are they clearing another $40m then?

[Kobblehead]

Nene?

lmfaooooooooo

Wait, do you think I actually value Nene as a player in 2019 or do you not understand Houston has to include salary to get as close to matching Butler's max as they can?

Get a third team involved

Losing the best player in a trade kinda hurts. I don't want to make it even worse by having to bring in a 3rd team, thus divying up our asset payment from Houston.

[Sixerscan]

We punted on FA THIS summer (not next summer as you tried to straw man) by making those deals and burning assets in the process. And we're STILL at risk of losing one or both of Butler and Harris. And to keep them we're forced to overpay.

We should have tried to sign stars this summer, and THEN made trades for stars if it didn't work.

We tried that last summer and it didn’t work. They didn’t even get meetings. They decided to get off the sidelines and make something happen.

We can still sign stars this summer. We have even more than 45 in cap space. Again, I ask, if you don’t think anyone wants to come here now, do you really think having Cov here would make a difference?

1st of all, we did get a meeting w/LeBron. Yes I understand it was a courtesy meeting, but no one else got one besides us.

2nd of all, how foolish would it be to base our decision making on a sample size of 1 summer? If you know anything about statistics you'll know that is ridiculous. There are a large amount of stars and players available this summer, way more than last summer. To say because we missed on LeBron + PG last summer means we would whiff on everyone this summer is totally illogical.

And where did I say no one wants to come here now? Another straw man. We're not even trying to get anyone now because we're ALL-IN w/overpaying Butler and Harris.

I think a major part of making those deals during the year was working back channels and realizing no one was very interested. And the reason why they are focused on them now is because no one else is interested.

You can keep saying All IN or whatever but it’s not the case. They traded some rotation players and an extra first they had (plus another one they immediately balanced out and got back to neutral). Not all in.

[Arsenal]

We tried that last summer and it didn’t work. They didn’t even get meetings. They decided to get off the sidelines and make something happen.

We can still sign stars this summer. We have even more than 45 in cap space. Again, I ask, if you don’t think anyone wants to come here now, do you really think having Cov here would make a difference?

1st of all, we did get a meeting w/LeBron. Yes I understand it was a courtesy meeting, but no one else got one besides us.

2nd of all, how foolish would it be to base our decision making on a sample size of 1 summer? If you know anything about statistics you'll know that is ridiculous. There are a large amount of stars and players available this summer, way more than last summer. To say because we missed on LeBron + PG last summer means we would whiff on everyone this summer is totally illogical.

And where did I say no one wants to come here now? Another straw man. We're not even trying to get anyone now because we're ALL-IN w/overpaying Butler and Harris.

You are incorrect on most of this.

The Lebron meeting was nothing but a courtesy. It meant nothing and he was never signing with Sixers. They got no other meetings.

Philly is not a top place for FAs, when competing with NY and LA.

Keeping the same roster last year probably would have led to a 1st rd exit and Brown being fired.

You are then stuck with Covington and Saric who would have much less value than last year. Then you are still competing with other teams for top Free Agents and having no leverage to offer 5 year max deals to anyone else.

You would not be getting meetings with Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, Klay, etc.

What they did last year was best for the organization to win now and have options on keeping the core together for the next 3-4 years.

You need to let it go and see the big picture.

What you are saying is what is good for Brett Brown, not what is good for the team. And I disagree 100% that we would have lost in the 1st round. We would have lost in the second round just like we did anyway.

The big picture is take a chance on free agency to get players for FREE and THEN cash in your chips to trade for stars if you strike out. Not cash your chips in prematurely and remove any chance of getting value for free in the free agent market, while tying yourself down to having to overpay players, or the alternative of losing them for nothing.

[Arsenal]

In the final analysis, we only got positive value from Butler + Harris this past season, when they outperformed their contracts.

Going forward after being resigned for the next 4-5 years they are both going to underperform their contracts.

We paid for the privilege of half a season of outperformance, along with 4-5 years of underperformance.

[fl311]

1st of all, we did get a meeting w/LeBron. Yes I understand it was a courtesy meeting, but no one else got one besides us.

2nd of all, how foolish would it be to base our decision making on a sample size of 1 summer? If you know anything about statistics you'll know that is ridiculous. There are a large amount of stars and players available this summer, way more than last summer. To say because we missed on LeBron + PG last summer means we would whiff on everyone this summer is totally illogical.

And where did I say no one wants to come here now? Another straw man. We're not even trying to get anyone now because we're ALL-IN w/overpaying Butler and Harris.

You are incorrect on most of this.

The Lebron meeting was nothing but a courtesy. It meant nothing and he was never signing with Sixers. They got no other meetings.

Philly is not a top place for FAs, when competing with NY and LA.

Keeping the same roster last year probably would have led to a 1st rd exit and Brown being fired.

You are then stuck with Covington and Saric who would have much less value than last year. Then you are still competing with other teams for top Free Agents and having no leverage to offer 5 year max deals to anyone else.

You would not be getting meetings with Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, Klay, etc.

What they did last year was best for the organization to win now and have options on keeping the core together for the next 3-4 years.

You need to let it go and see the big picture.

What you are saying is what is good for Brett Brown, not what is good for the team. And I disagree 100% that we would have lost in the 1st round. We would have lost in the second round just like we did anyway.

The big picture is take a chance on free agency to get players for FREE and THEN cash in your chips to trade for stars if you strike out. Not cash your chips in prematurely and remove any chance of getting value for free in the free agent market, while tying yourself down to having to overpay players, or the alternative of losing them for nothing.

How bout you wait 2 weeks before getting your panties in a bunch.

I can tell you flat out that top FAs would not want to come to this team.

[Kobblehead]

In defense of the team, you can't always dictate the timing of when you pounce on someone perceived to be a star.

[AirP.]

And why would Miami take on Dieng when they only save $10m? How are they clearing another $40m then?

Because that's how you do it without sending out positive assets?
They also have Ryan Anderson which they could do that way too, moving 2 players they're not going to use to drop their payroll 15-25 million without sending out a positive asset out. There's also Dragic which probably be even easier to move to create space, all without giving up a positive asset, just cap space for 1-2 years to add the player they want this offseason.

[fl311]

And why would Miami take on Dieng when they only save $10m? How are they clearing another $40m then?

Because that's how you do it without sending out positive assets?
They also have Ryan Anderson which they could do that way too, moving 2 players they're not going to use to drop their payroll 15-25 million without sending out a positive asset out. There's also Dragic which probably be even easier to move to create space, all without giving up a positive asset, just cap space for 1-2 years to add the player they want this offseason.

And teams are just going to take on those contracts for nothing?

No offense, but you'd make a terrible GM.

Miami cannot get rid of enough assets to sign Jimmy outright and field a competitive team.

[Arsenal]

In defense of the team, you can't always dictate the timing of when you pounce on someone perceived to be a star.

I agree with this. However it is also true that 2-3 stars that no one expects come available in trade basically every year. It's like clockwork.

[AirP.]

In the final analysis, we only got positive value from Butler + Harris this past season, when they outperformed their contracts.

Going forward after being resigned for the next 4-5 years they are both going to underperform their contracts.

We paid for the privilege of half a season of outperformance, along with 4-5 years of underperformance.

Does it really matter if you're at or above the cap, those 2 players being overpaid will probably be better then what you could get with Embiid and Simmons maxed and whoever else is on the roster. I'd suspect Butler at age 34 and Harris at 31 will be way better than what you could realistically get without their salaries on the books because of... the cap.

[Arsenal]

In the final analysis, we only got positive value from Butler + Harris this past season, when they outperformed their contracts.

Going forward after being resigned for the next 4-5 years they are both going to underperform their contracts.

We paid for the privilege of half a season of outperformance, along with 4-5 years of underperformance.

Does it really matter if you're at or above the cap, those 2 players being overpaid will probably be better then what you could get with Embiid and Simmons maxed and whoever else is on the roster. I'd suspect Butler at age 34 and Harris at 31 will be way better than what you could realistically get without their salaries on the books because of... the cap.

Hey, if the owners had an unlimited budget, then it would be great. However that's not how the real world works. There is always a budget the team has to work within, especially factoring in the dynamics of the luxury tax.

This team is likely to be over the tax line this year, and WAY over next year when Simmons' MAX extension kicks in. Then we'll see how harmless it is to the team that we're paying Butler + Harris a combined $10-15M/yr too much. In that 3rd year of going over the tax we'll be facing the dreaded repeater tax also.

[AirP.]

And why would Miami take on Dieng when they only save $10m? How are they clearing another $40m then?

Because that's how you do it without sending out positive assets?
They also have Ryan Anderson which they could do that way too, moving 2 players they're not going to use to drop their payroll 15-25 million without sending out a positive asset out. There's also Dragic which probably be even easier to move to create space, all without giving up a positive asset, just cap space for 1-2 years to add the player they want this offseason.

And teams are just going to take on those contracts for nothing?

No offense, but you'd make a terrible GM.

Miami cannot get rid of enough assets to sign Jimmy outright and field a competitive team.

Not sure how moving 2 nonstarters on the last years of their contracts to create room for a FA you want to max out is being a terrible GM. Maybe you don't know those 2 players are no longer in Miami's plans?

If you read my previous post, Minnesota would be getting off bad money themselves taking a 1 year hit to get off of Dieng's contract. There were talks it would take 2 1st round picks to do that last summer.

[Kobblehead]

I don't think we shot our load, though.

We got two fringe-star type talents and only gave up a combined 3 role players and future 1st, right?

We still have Ben Simmons as a walking trade chip for when the next crop of stars that flood the market.

[AirP.]

I don't think we shot our load, though.

We got two fringe-star type talents and only gave up a combined 3 role players and future 1st, right?

We still have Ben Simmons as a walking trade chip for when the next crop of stars that flood the market.

Right, either Simmons adds a jumper and becomes a lesser version of LeBron or you move him (to a team that will completely build around him which can somewhat negate his lack of shooting) and get back a ton of value for him.

[Sixerscan]

I don't think we shot our load, though.

We got two fringe-star type talents and only gave up a combined 3 role players and future 1st, right?

We still have Ben Simmons as a walking trade chip for when the next crop of stars that flood the market.

Of course we didn’t. Someone quoting inversed Hinkie platitudes 5 times a page doesn’t change that.

[Mik317]

As long as we have Embiid and to a lesser extent Simmons, we can right the ship regardless of what transpires over the next few weeks/months.

Its just that the next move will box us in for a bit if things go south. We "run it back" and Jimmy declines or Tobias stagnates..then it becomes rough to move those contracts. We let one leave, then we will need to hit on whoever fills the hole and if not..then thats another strike against the FO. We let both leave then you have to pivot and fill out the roster, and place more onus on Ben and Embiid to grow up ASAP.

Again since Hinkie left, every single move this franchise has made has been ones in which you know they overpaid due to optics but make technical sense overall....but we really haven't "won" any of those. This team is being carried by Embiid's success masking what in reality should be devastating setbacks lol. I mean we had a top 3 pick, and turned it into a dude who forgot how to basketball. And yet was one shot away from the conference finals. Before that we also fumbled a pick on a dude who has had to reinvent his body multiple times to play modern NBA basketball. AND we currently employ a PG who not only CAN"T shoot...but won't even think about shooting. Embiid being as good as he is has saved us...but because of his own issues...that is on a time limit it seems. SO the real fear is that if the harder path opens up (and say what you want about Jimmy and Tobias..keeping them is the easier path because at the very least the team will be pretty good-great for those first 2-3 seasons barring disaster), is that this FO/Ownership will do what they have always done in the face of adversity and make a brash move that makes sense on paper but not in reality and that will be the one that sends us spiraling back into the process. Then you have to wonder if Embiid is even here to save us at that point either due to injury or his own trade requests?

If I didn't give a **** about this team, this all would be very fascinating instead of nerve wrecking lol.