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Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#121 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:30 am

Phone log
MU: hey tom no hard feelings on Ted offering me the net worth of a small country to take your job, hope we can still have a good working relationship fam.
TS: no worries my guy, we chill. You gotta do what's best for you. Sure would be a shame though if LeBron got enough cap room to steal kawi.
MU: that's great bro, like I'm.... Wait what.
TS: click. ...... Beep beep beep

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#122 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:35 am

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:so Jemmerio Jones is a self check on offense but a lockdown defender and elite rebounder. 18.7 rebounds per 40 in college???


Jones had a TS% of. 398 in 143 minutes! :nonono:

Bonga had a TS% of .240 in 120 minutes! :o

I don't think it's a sure bet either SHOULD make a roster.

Respectfully, Dat, I think you are all wrong about Jones. For one thing, the Lakers FO was said to be extremely high on him. In addition look at my post on what his numbers look like when seen together in the context of reality.

Consider the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & makes it. 2 points for his team. Versus the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & misses it but grabs the rebound & puts it in. 2 points for his team. Difference in time elapsed, maybe 1 second.

Between these 2 cases, what is the difference to the guy's numbers? Well, in the first case his TS% is higher. In the 2d case, his TS% is lower, but his offensive rebounds are up.

Between these 2 cases, wha i's the difference to the team & its chance of winning the game? No difference.

If Jones also had a high TS% (& the minutes were significant of course) he'd be one of the best players in the league. Those are 2 big "ifs," of course. But, what he did was outstanding, however. He gives his team possessions by the fistful. The above example emphasizes the meaning of an offensive rebound in re: TS% -- but he also dominates the defensive glass.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#123 » by Physhi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:41 am

I'm super pumped that Tommy made this trade. I think this gives a lot of credence to the idea that the Thomas Bryant pick up was Tommy's plan. I can almost guarantee you that if EG was still our GM we would not have used one of our trade exceptions this way. It would have been used to get some aging but decent vet to get us into the playoffs and knocked out in the first round. It finally feels like someone at the top has a plan beyond this year. They hit on Thomas Bryant last year so I'm gonna be optimistic and hope that one of these guys becomes a hit.

If I had to guess who the player that will become a hit my money is on Jones. He plays so hard all the time. Averaging 13 rebounds as a 6'5" pretty light small forward that doesn't have incredible leaping ability shows that he wants the ball more than anyone else on the court and he seems to be a plus on defense from what I've been reading on some Lakers forums. I saw an interview after he had a 16 point 15 rebound game against the Clippers where he said something to the effect of "Y'all know I don't score a lot so I gotta do everything else right." That's the kind of attitude coaches kill to have in their players and I think after another year in the gleague where he can gain confidence in his offense by developing a more consistent jumper we'll see him on the roster full time next year. Even if he's never a good scorer just having a guy who buys in fully on defense will keep him in the league a lot longer than most players (see Tony Allen).

Stocking ourselves full of as many young diverse prospects as we can while we wait to see what Wall is like when he gets back is the right move to make. Not all of these guys are going to be perennial allstars but if we're getting a couple of guys that can contribute minutes then maybe we won't have a huge problem with our bench like we do every year. Maybe then we don't have to play Beal the most minutes in a season. This is similar to how Masai built up Toronto when they were in cap hell and meandering through mediocrity. Eventually you hit on enough guys and they all become valuable enough that you can go out and trade for that last star you need to compete for a championship. And your initial investment was what? Cash considerations?

Excited to see what the next move Tommy has in store. I expect Howard to get moved to a contender since his contract is so cheap and he can still be a good big in the right situation. Maybe a team that's on the cusp of winning a championship and willing to part with a very late 1st rounder or multiple second rounders.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#124 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:41 am

WallToWall wrote:Jones cant take anyone off the dribble. Kinda slow on the first step. That's ok, if he had a jump shot, but he is not confident with it. His shot is fixable, I think though. So he *could* develop a jumper. ...

Never ever ever look at a player based on what he "can't" do. Look at what he actually does.

Will it scale? Who the h3ll knows? The kid played 143 minutes. But he was pretty amazing in those minutes.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#125 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:00 am

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Troy Brown had a TS% of .487.

Which is why the only folks excited about Troy are Wizards fans......

Sorry, Dat. No.

I disliked the pick of Brown -- still do. We could have had him & a R2 pick as well, I am sure. Typical Grunfail.

But, that has nothing at all to do with Troy Brown as a player (despite the fact that most people seem to find it impossible to distinguish these two perspectives).

Troy Brown, Jr. had quite a good rookie season. He was an above average NBA wing in his first year, at 19. No, he didn't score well. But, he was a well above average rebounder on both ends of the court. He was also above average in assists & he turned the ball over at a below average rate as well.

I drowned my crystal ball at the car wash, so I don't know how he'll play this year or what his eventual upside is, but he is still the youngest player on the team (except for Bonga who's a few months younger).
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#126 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:06 am

Checked the Lakers thread . They all seem pretty happy about what's happening lol say the magic Johnson's tweets about it. Lol made me laugh lol

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#127 » by Physhi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:13 am



Since Jones didn't play a ton of minutes it's tough to find a lot of game highlights but this guy was able to clip together every single possession he was involved in for this one game. His defensive prowess is pretty evident here.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#128 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:15 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#129 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:17 am

nuposse04 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Jemerrio Jones... holy moly! He only played 143 minutes for the Lakers, so his numbers don't predict. But, if you think he played badly just because he only posted a 39.8% TS%, you just aren't paying close enough attention to the numbers.

For every 11.1 shots he took, Jones made only 4 of them for 8.75 points. That's 7.1 misses. But, in that same stretch, he grabbed 5.4 offensive rebounds & had 2.3 steals minus 1.7 turnovers. In other words, he got 6 of those 7.1 misses back. So those 8.75 points cost his team only 5 possessions.

In that same time, an average NBA guard took 19.2 shots & made 8.4 of them netting 19.35 points. That's 10.6 more points. That's 10.8 misses. In the process, that average guard has .5 more turnovers than he does offensive boards & steals combined.

The result? In effect, to produce 10.6 more points than Jemerrio Jones, an average NBA guard 14.7 more possessions than Jemerrio. Oh, & along the way Jemerrio gets 11.1 defensive boards, while mr. average gets 5.2.

On the combo of blocks, fouls & assists, Mr. Average does have a lead (really just on assists, but it suffices).

Overall, for the little that 143 minutes means, Jemerrio Jones is... incredibly good! Amazingly good!

What's this mean? Here's what it means: if everyone on your team played the way he plays (which is impossible obviously), your team would only score 46 points per 48 minutes. Your opponent, however, would see the ball so rarely on offense that they'd be lucky to get to 30. & when they did see the ball, they'd get 1 shot.

But, what's it really mean? Absolutely nothing, obviously.

Except that Jemerrio Jones, no matter where he comes from & no matter that he wasn't drafted, is an outstanding prospect! He's the Ben Wallace of 6'5" guys.

I can't help but wonder if we got him AND Clarke how elated you would be ;)

I think all three guys are worth evaluating and seeing if they are actually good nba prospects.

As much as the directional shift is a positive development, I'd like if it Tommy is imploring Brooks to actually play the new young guys as well. Adding a veteran isn't going to significantly change the outlook of the team more then likely. Better off banking on that one or two of the new 6 young players (these three+our draft night) actually end up meaningfully contributing.

Our spacing is going to be wretched next year unless some of these guys match their collegiate pedigree.

Summer league should be fun tho :D

LOL -- you are so right. I encourage you to get the Grizzlies on NBA TV!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#130 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:21 am

Physhi wrote:I'm super pumped that Tommy made this trade. I think this gives a lot of credence to the idea that the Thomas Bryant pick up was Tommy's plan. I can almost guarantee you that if EG was still our GM we would not have used one of our trade exceptions this way. It would have been used to get some aging but decent vet to get us into the playoffs and knocked out in the first round. It finally feels like someone at the top has a plan beyond this year. They hit on Thomas Bryant last year so I'm gonna be optimistic and hope that one of these guys becomes a hit.

If I had to guess who the player that will become a hit my money is on Jones. He plays so hard all the time. Averaging 13 rebounds as a 6'5" pretty light small forward that doesn't have incredible leaping ability shows that he wants the ball more than anyone else on the court and he seems to be a plus on defense from what I've been reading on some Lakers forums. I saw an interview after he had a 16 point 15 rebound game against the Clippers where he said something to the effect of "Y'all know I don't score a lot so I gotta do everything else right." That's the kind of attitude coaches kill to have in their players and I think after another year in the gleague where he can gain confidence in his offense by developing a more consistent jumper we'll see him on the roster full time next year. Even if he's never a good scorer just having a guy who buys in fully on defense will keep him in the league a lot longer than most players (see Tony Allen).

Stocking ourselves full of as many young diverse prospects as we can while we wait to see what Wall is like when he gets back is the right move to make. Not all of these guys are going to be perennial allstars but if we're getting a couple of guys that can contribute minutes then maybe we won't have a huge problem with our bench like we do every year. Maybe then we don't have to play Beal the most minutes in a season. This is similar to how Masai built up Toronto when they were in cap hell and meandering through mediocrity. Eventually you hit on enough guys and they all become valuable enough that you can go out and trade for that last star you need to compete for a championship. And your initial investment was what? Cash considerations?

Excited to see what the next move Tommy has in store. I expect Howard to get moved to a contender since his contract is so cheap and he can still be a good big in the right situation. Maybe a team that's on the cusp of winning a championship and willing to part with a very late 1st rounder or multiple second rounders.

Great post -- come around a little more often dude!!!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#131 » by Darko Miliminutes » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:31 am

Wagner has a good stroke. He can hit the 3. Not sure what his percentage was last season, but he can be a quality stretch big. As a uofm tix holder i watched him a ton and there's real potential with him. You guys may very well be some real happy campers later on this season. I'm jealous...wanted the pistons to find a way to snatch him up. Enjoy!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#132 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:33 am

Physhi wrote:

Since Jones didn't play a ton of minutes it's tough to find a lot of game highlights but this guy was able to clip together every single possession he was involved in for this one game. His defensive prowess is pretty evident here.

Thanks. As I say, the Lakers were said to be quite high on this kid. You can see why.

It is really fun to be a Wizards fan right now! First time in a while.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#133 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:53 am

payitforward wrote:
Physhi wrote:

Since Jones didn't play a ton of minutes it's tough to find a lot of game highlights but this guy was able to clip together every single possession he was involved in for this one game. His defensive prowess is pretty evident here.

Thanks. As I say, the Lakers were said to be quite high on this kid. You can see why.

It is really fun to be a Wizards fan right now! First time in a while.

His ability to rebound isn't a fluke. The guy knows exactly where the ball is going and gets there first.

His shot is really ugly though. We're going to need our shooting coaches to work some serious magic to get him to be a competent 3&D role player. It's worth noting that guys tend to improve their shots when they come to DC. Otto, Sato, Ariza (his first stint), and Troy Brown have all improved dramatically as 3-point shooters. That said, Jones is 24 years old already. If his shot hasn't come around yet, I have a hard time believing it will. If he can't shoot, it's going to be hard to keep him on the floor. When the scouting report comes out, nobody is going to bother guarding him.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#134 » by NatP4 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:59 am

Play him at center lol. His rebounding would be above average for a 5.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#135 » by Physhi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:16 am

payitforward wrote:
Physhi wrote:I'm super pumped that Tommy made this trade. I think this gives a lot of credence to the idea that the Thomas Bryant pick up was Tommy's plan. I can almost guarantee you that if EG was still our GM we would not have used one of our trade exceptions this way. It would have been used to get some aging but decent vet to get us into the playoffs and knocked out in the first round. It finally feels like someone at the top has a plan beyond this year. They hit on Thomas Bryant last year so I'm gonna be optimistic and hope that one of these guys becomes a hit.

If I had to guess who the player that will become a hit my money is on Jones. He plays so hard all the time. Averaging 13 rebounds as a 6'5" pretty light small forward that doesn't have incredible leaping ability shows that he wants the ball more than anyone else on the court and he seems to be a plus on defense from what I've been reading on some Lakers forums. I saw an interview after he had a 16 point 15 rebound game against the Clippers where he said something to the effect of "Y'all know I don't score a lot so I gotta do everything else right." That's the kind of attitude coaches kill to have in their players and I think after another year in the gleague where he can gain confidence in his offense by developing a more consistent jumper we'll see him on the roster full time next year. Even if he's never a good scorer just having a guy who buys in fully on defense will keep him in the league a lot longer than most players (see Tony Allen).

Stocking ourselves full of as many young diverse prospects as we can while we wait to see what Wall is like when he gets back is the right move to make. Not all of these guys are going to be perennial allstars but if we're getting a couple of guys that can contribute minutes then maybe we won't have a huge problem with our bench like we do every year. Maybe then we don't have to play Beal the most minutes in a season. This is similar to how Masai built up Toronto when they were in cap hell and meandering through mediocrity. Eventually you hit on enough guys and they all become valuable enough that you can go out and trade for that last star you need to compete for a championship. And your initial investment was what? Cash considerations?

Excited to see what the next move Tommy has in store. I expect Howard to get moved to a contender since his contract is so cheap and he can still be a good big in the right situation. Maybe a team that's on the cusp of winning a championship and willing to part with a very late 1st rounder or multiple second rounders.

Great post -- come around a little more often dude!!!


Thanks. I tend to lurk a lot and post in bunches when something big happens for the team.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#136 » by gravytrain24 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:25 am

I like this move. I was high on Wagner coming out of college and hoped the wiz would get him. He has a nice stroke, athletic. Plus getting a 2nd rounder shouldn’t be over looked. Yeah we’re helping the Lakers but by the time their “dynasty” ends, the wizards young guns will be ready. Excited for a Wall, Beal, Schofield, Hachimura, Bryant starting lineup with Robinson, McRae, Brown and Wagner off the bench.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#137 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:28 am

gravytrain24 wrote:Excited for a Wall, Beal, Schofield, Hachimura, Bryant starting lineup with Robinson, McRae, Brown and Wagner off the bench.

I figure Brown will start ahead of Schofield. And, obviously, Wall won't be starting anytime soon. So it's

PG Sato/Robinson
SG Beal/McRae
SF Brown/Schofield
PF Hachimura/???
C Bryant/Wagner
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#138 » by truwizfan4evr » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:29 am

Physhi wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Physhi wrote:I'm super pumped that Tommy made this trade. I think this gives a lot of credence to the idea that the Thomas Bryant pick up was Tommy's plan. I can almost guarantee you that if EG was still our GM we would not have used one of our trade exceptions this way. It would have been used to get some aging but decent vet to get us into the playoffs and knocked out in the first round. It finally feels like someone at the top has a plan beyond this year. They hit on Thomas Bryant last year so I'm gonna be optimistic and hope that one of these guys becomes a hit.

If I had to guess who the player that will become a hit my money is on Jones. He plays so hard all the time. Averaging 13 rebounds as a 6'5" pretty light small forward that doesn't have incredible leaping ability shows that he wants the ball more than anyone else on the court and he seems to be a plus on defense from what I've been reading on some Lakers forums. I saw an interview after he had a 16 point 15 rebound game against the Clippers where he said something to the effect of "Y'all know I don't score a lot so I gotta do everything else right." That's the kind of attitude coaches kill to have in their players and I think after another year in the gleague where he can gain confidence in his offense by developing a more consistent jumper we'll see him on the roster full time next year. Even if he's never a good scorer just having a guy who buys in fully on defense will keep him in the league a lot longer than most players (see Tony Allen).

Stocking ourselves full of as many young diverse prospects as we can while we wait to see what Wall is like when he gets back is the right move to make. Not all of these guys are going to be perennial allstars but if we're getting a couple of guys that can contribute minutes then maybe we won't have a huge problem with our bench like we do every year. Maybe then we don't have to play Beal the most minutes in a season. This is similar to how Masai built up Toronto when they were in cap hell and meandering through mediocrity. Eventually you hit on enough guys and they all become valuable enough that you can go out and trade for that last star you need to compete for a championship. And your initial investment was what? Cash considerations?

Excited to see what the next move Tommy has in store. I expect Howard to get moved to a contender since his contract is so cheap and he can still be a good big in the right situation. Maybe a team that's on the cusp of winning a championship and willing to part with a very late 1st rounder or multiple second rounders.

Great post -- come around a little more often dude!!!


Thanks. I tend to lurk a lot and post in bunches when something big happens for the team.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#139 » by gravytrain24 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:31 am

nate33 wrote:
gravytrain24 wrote:Excited for a Wall, Beal, Schofield, Hachimura, Bryant starting lineup with Robinson, McRae, Brown and Wagner off the bench.

I figure Brown will start ahead of Schofield. And, obviously, Wall won't be starting anytime soon. So it's

PG Sato/Robinson
SG Beal/McRae
SF Brown/Schofield
PF Hachimura/???
C Bryant/Wagner

That’s my 3 years down the line lineup, next year I have no clue because Brooks is a wildcard.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#140 » by verbal8 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:50 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
TGW wrote:Let's not get overboard with the Sheppard lovefest. Just for perspective, Ernie Grunfeld traded Kwame Brown for Caron Butler, signed Arenas, and traded for Jamison in one summer. He had a phenomenal first few months with the team.

I will say that anytime you can poach the Lakers for young talent, it's probably a good move. They have a top notch scouting department, and if they see something in a player worthy of drafting them, that player probably has a lot of talent.

How many 2nd round picks did Grunfeld give away in his tenure? How many did he acquire? Sheppard just added two of them in 2 weeks.

It’s not possible to go overboard with the Sheppard love. He is so much more competent than Grunfeld it isn’t funny, this is what Wiz fans have been asking for for years.


I think the reason I love this deal is that it is such an anti-EG deal. These are the types of deals that a team has to do to get good or remain a good team. They don't always work out, but you have to take the chance when you get it.

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