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Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#181 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:48 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the team to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Yeah, it's a shame that NBA players develop close personal relationships with other players and then have the audacity to decide for themselves where they want to play and who they want to play with. I blame it on Curt Flood. :)

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#182 » by MDStar » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:50 pm

Just get rid of max contracts, keep the salary cap, and then sit back and see how much the Superstars want to play together. In the open market, guys like LeBron, KD, AD, Curry, Harden, etc. are all worth more than they can get paid within the current system. Allow them to get $50M per year contracts, with a $120M cap, and see if they will ever get more than two prime superstars on any one team ever again.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#183 » by WizardsWorld » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:54 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:
DCZards wrote:Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.


Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.

I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the sport to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Very well said Nate.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#184 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:58 pm

MDStar wrote:Just get rid of max contracts, keep the salary cap, and then sit back and see how much the Superstars want to play together. In the open market, guys like LeBron, KD, AD, Curry, Harden, etc. are all worth more than they can get paid within the current system. Allow them to get $50M per year contracts, with a $120M cap, and see if they will ever get more than two prime superstars on any one team ever again.

Yes, that would help a great deal. But hand-in-hand with that, I'd also institute some type of mandatory compensation scheme for when a team loses a superstar through free agency.

It's not fair if one team is really awesome at finding and developing talent only to watch all of their talent walk out the door (with no compensation) because of a salary cap. At least allow that team that loses the star to recoup some value for its efforts.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#185 » by MDStar » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:01 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:
nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:
Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.

I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the sport to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Very well said Nate.


So Nate, would it be fair to say that you're not bothered by superteams themselves but more so how they are created?

If so, is one possible solution to this problem that the NBA forms a rule that states teams can only have 1 max free agent that they signed off of the open market on the roster at any one time. However, if you draft a prospect that ultimately becomes a max player or the team trades for a player who signed a max contract elsewhere, this formation of a super team would be acceptable?
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#186 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:08 pm

MDStar wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:
nate33 wrote:I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the sport to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Very well said Nate.


So Nate, would it be fair to say that you're not bothered by superteams themselves but more so how they are created?

If so, is one possible solution to this problem that the NBA forms a rule that states teams can only have 1 max free agent that they signed off of the open market on the roster at any one time. However, if you draft a prospect that ultimately becomes a max player or the team trades for a player who signed a max contract elsewhere, this formation of a super team would be acceptable?

Yes. It's how they're created that bugs me the most. I want parity, but I don't want to penalize competent management. Teams shouldn't be punished because they draft well and develop players well.

Your idea that you can't sign a second max player as a free agent makes good sense to me. It would prevent Golden State from adding Durant, but allow them to keep Curry, Klay and Draymond. It would allow the Lakers to sign Lebron and trade for AD, but they couldn't add a Kyrie or Jimmy Butler. Brooklyn could add Kyrie, but not Kyrie AND Durant. Let's spread those superstars around a bit without forcing teams to jettison their homegrown talent.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#187 » by Gig18 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:
DCZards wrote:Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.


Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.

I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the sport to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.

There is irony in all of this. For decades, in all sports, before free agency, teams could stockpile talent, pay them dirt (by comparison to others) and keep them forever.
Then free agency pitted owners against each other to bid for the best players---swelling salaries to astronomical, sometimes comical (see Harrison Barnes getting a $90 million contract, or Otto becoming a max player) levels.
Now, finally, superstar players have wrested the horns of free agency to completely alter the competitive landscape.
But, don't worry, gambling is coming. We already have fantasy teams and we don't have to be fans of any organization, just individual players. Heck, we even root against our fave teams if it benefits our fantasy squad. And, gambling will make it sooooo much better.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#188 » by Yuri Vaultin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:21 pm

I love this deal for you guys. That being said I am unreasonably high on Bonga as a prospect. I think the kid could develop in to something really, really special. Perhaps worth noting that he was the youngest player in the draft last year. Kid has physical tools that can't be taught and has some skills that look to be special.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#189 » by trast66 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:32 pm

Gig18 wrote:Man, this super-team genie got out of the bottle when Bron "took his talents to south beach" nearly 10 years ago. I hate it and frankly I think players are wusses (thank you Charles Barkley) when they choose to join their competitors to "win" rather than compete against them to be the best.
Baseball's been dealing with a similar ill for decades a race where three teams drive ferraris and everyone else are stuck in VW bugs.
But, as I said, that genie got out of the bottle.
How bout the players we got?


Charles Barkley forced his way out of Philly when he was 28 years old to join a loaded Suns team.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#190 » by JWizmentality » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:41 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:I love this deal for you guys. That being said I am unreasonably high on Bonga as a prospect. I think the kid could develop in to something really, really special. Perhaps worth noting that he was the youngest player in the draft last year. Kid has physical tools that can't be taught and has some skills that look to be special.



Is it just me? In all the videos I've seen of him I've been thoroughly unimpressed. :(
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#191 » by NatP4 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:47 pm

can we talk about the wizards?
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#192 » by Gig18 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:56 pm

trast66 wrote:
Gig18 wrote:Man, this super-team genie got out of the bottle when Bron "took his talents to south beach" nearly 10 years ago. I hate it and frankly I think players are wusses (thank you Charles Barkley) when they choose to join their competitors to "win" rather than compete against them to be the best.
Baseball's been dealing with a similar ill for decades a race where three teams drive ferraris and everyone else are stuck in VW bugs.
But, as I said, that genie got out of the bottle.
How bout the players we got?


Charles Barkley forced his way out of Philly when he was 28 years old to join a loaded Suns team.

When Jordan and the Bulls were the reigning power in the NBA. He was also still traded to Phoenix.
It wasn't like he said, Cool! I'm a free agent! Michael, Scottie, Akeem! Let's take our talent to south beeach... :)
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#193 » by Yuri Vaultin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:00 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:I love this deal for you guys. That being said I am unreasonably high on Bonga as a prospect. I think the kid could develop in to something really, really special. Perhaps worth noting that he was the youngest player in the draft last year. Kid has physical tools that can't be taught and has some skills that look to be special.



Is it just me? In all the videos I've seen of him I've been thoroughly unimpressed. :(

He's young and is learning. He is the youngest player to ever have played for the German men's team. Be patient.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#194 » by The Laker Kid » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:10 pm

Of those 3 players you guys received, I am most impressed with Jemerrio Jones and am sad to see him go. Dude is a rebounding machine. Does the dirty work and moves without the ball. All 3 guys are very raw, especially Bonga, but Jones could be developed into a very solid hustle guy.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#195 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:21 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:I love this deal for you guys. That being said I am unreasonably high on Bonga as a prospect. I think the kid could develop in to something really, really special. Perhaps worth noting that he was the youngest player in the draft last year. Kid has physical tools that can't be taught and has some skills that look to be special.



Is it just me? In all the videos I've seen of him I've been thoroughly unimpressed. :(

He's young and is learning. He is the youngest player to ever have played for the German men's team. Be patient.

To me , Bonga is the most interesting of all the prospects in this trade. I can't believe he's 6'9 with that kind of speed and ballhandling
At the very least, it looks like he will be worth the price of admission to our G-League DC Go-Go games
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#196 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:26 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:

Is it just me? In all the videos I've seen of him I've been thoroughly unimpressed. :(

He's young and is learning. He is the youngest player to ever have played for the German men's team. Be patient.

To me , Bonga is the most interesting of all the prospects in this trade. I can't believe he's 6'9 with that kind of speed and ballhandling
At the very least, it looks like he will be worth the price of admission to our G-League DC Go-Go games

I don't see all this remarkable speed you keep talking about. He's a legit NBA athlete to be sure, but not a noticeably above average one.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#197 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
Yuri Vaultin wrote:He's young and is learning. He is the youngest player to ever have played for the German men's team. Be patient.

To me , Bonga is the most interesting of all the prospects in this trade. I can't believe he's 6'9 with that kind of speed and ballhandling
At the very least, it looks like he will be worth the price of admission to our G-League DC Go-Go games

I don't see all this remarkable speed you keep talking about. He's a legit NBA athlete to be sure, but not a noticeably above average one.

If Satoransky is considered athletic then Bonga is for sure. Watch any of his highlights in transition, he has incredibly long strides so you don't realize how much ground he's covering . A player of that size consistently beating defenders up the court with the ball is not ordinary - and keep in mind he doesn't have his full athleticism/explosiveness yet, that will come in a few years


From what I've seen , he doesn't have a super elite first step in the half court but uses his size more in those sets. He showed a good amount of quickness and reflexes on defense as well.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#198 » by nuposse04 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:47 pm

Sato has explosive hops, but kinda needs a few steps to get going. Sato isn't particularly laterally athletic but compensates with good positioning.

I have no idea if Bonga has those same instincts, but it will be fun to watch and see.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#199 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:54 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Sato has explosive hops, but kinda needs a few steps to get going. Sato isn't particularly laterally athletic but compensates with good positioning.

I have no idea if Bonga has those same instincts, but it will be fun to watch and see.

This is the only comprehensive video I saw showing him against "NBA" competition (mostly NOPs bench scrubs but still)

Very quick and active player with good anticipation. But severely lacking in strength right now
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#200 » by Gig18 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:01 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:Sato has explosive hops, but kinda needs a few steps to get going. Sato isn't particularly laterally athletic but compensates with good positioning.

I have no idea if Bonga has those same instincts, but it will be fun to watch and see.

This is the only comprehensive video I saw showing him against "NBA" competition (mostly NOPs bench scrubs but still)

Very quick and active player with good anticipation. But severely lacking in strength right now

The other thing you see in those clips were also evident in his G league stuff. He has talent, but he gets so out of control when driving to the basket that he often ends up hurling absolute prayers up as shots. Maybe that can be cleared up by getting stronger and having more playing time. But it makes it look like he's prettttttty far away from being a regular contributor.

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