Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach?

Elrod is Back · Post #1 » by **Elrod is Back** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:04 pm

Chris Webber called into NBA-TV last night to discuss the free agent signings and the discussion turned to the Celtics and why the Kyrie experiment failed.

Webber was critical of Kyrie, but he was equally critical of Brad Stevens, saying that Brad has yet to show he can coach NBA veteran stars, meaning big ego guys with an agenda but also the talent to win games consistently. Webber was quick to acknowledge that Stevens is a good coach, but he said Stevens lost control of the locker room and that was on him.

I have to agree. Danny has pretty much given Brad a knucklehead-free roster since he has been here. The hard-to-handle guys, like Rondo and Jordan Crawford, where shipped out as quickly as possible. By contrast, Danny threw Ricky Davis, Sebastian Telfair, Rajon Rondo and a cast of thousand at Doc Rivers, who handled these guys as well as any coach could.

Kyrie was Brad's first real challenge and he failed.

Danny's response, based on the recent draft, seems to be to double down stocking the roster with easy-to-coach great guys.
The problem is that Brad and boy scouts can clearly be a playoff team, a winning team, and a lovable team, but unless we magically get a boy scout superstar handed to us, it will not be a championship team. Rooting for the underdog is fun and all that, but the point of the exercise is to compete for titles, not for a remake of Hoosiers.

The great coaches have all been able to handle difficult personalities. Brad had better get comfortable doing that or he will gravitate to being a mediocre coach, and I suspect he will end up back in the college ranks within a few years.

Post #2 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:08 pm

i agree with this. but brad is also young. lots of coaches grow and learn. think about belichick's cleveland stint, total disaster. the question is, do you think brad can learn and grow from this past season?

i certainly wouldn't put it past him.

brackdan70 · Post #3 » by **brackdan70** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:12 pm

Yeah it appears he struggled with the situation last year. Hope Brad learns from the experience and it seems he is the type to do that. I am still all in on Stevens for now.

captain green · Post #4 » by **captain green** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:14 pm

Yes and regardless of your counter point Stevens will coach through his contract. So go ahead and lock this nonsense.

IcedKarl · Post #5 » by **IcedKarl** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:19 pm

I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

greenroom31 · Post #6 » by **greenroom31** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:19 pm

ParticleMan wrote:i agree with this. but brad is also young. lots of coaches grow and learn. think about belichick's cleveland stint, total disaster. the question is, do you think brad can learn and grow from this past season?

i certainly wouldn't put it past him.

This is the hope. Right now he needs to show the locker room that he can set culture and not just direct it. Some people are just too passive/deferential/nice to bring the hammer down and take control as a leader, and I hope that's not the case with him.

Elrod is Back · Post #7 » by **Elrod is Back** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:23 pm

captain green wrote:Yes and regardless of your counter point Stevens will coach through his contract. So go ahead and lock this nonsense.

Unless Danny and Wyc are incompetent, they are thinking about this issue, as is Brad, if he is anything close to the coach most of us think he is. So if the team management is thinking about this, why can't we?

For an example of why this is a pertinent discussion, Steve Kerr was willing to take on DeMarcus Cousins. But for Brad that seems to be a bridge too far. At some point Stevens is going to have to dip his toe in the deep end of the NBA, isn't he? And I am not using the Cousins example to say we should necessarily sign him, simply to illustrate my point.

Tiny ball · Post #8 » by **Tiny ball** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:25 pm

He got a group of young guys to the eastern conference finals. I'm not big fan of him but can't see why not with the right players. Imho the NBA is wide open no sure thing next year. We should have better read About bad Brad end of next season.

ermocrate · Post #9 » by **ermocrate** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:25 pm

IcedKarl wrote:I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

Are you questioning Pop’s balls?

ermocrate · Post #10 » by **ermocrate** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:25 pm

I think he is like Larry Brown.

Ed Pinkney · Post #11 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:26 pm

I'd like to point out how many coaches Irving has had issues with (pretty much all of them). And Rivers was certainly not without fault dealing with players, both at the Celtics and the Clippers.

Elrod is Back · Post #12 » by **Elrod is Back** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:27 pm

IcedKarl wrote:I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

Pop has fantastic superstars in Robinson and Duncan and Parker and Ginobili which made all the difference, for sure. But he also had guys like Stephen Jackson who had immense talent but were difficult to coach. Jackson was a key player on the 2003 Spurs championship team.

Tiny ball · Post #13 » by **Tiny ball** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:32 pm

IcedKarl wrote:I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

I agree with you but if the goofball nut job even low life scumbag will get you into the finals every year help you win championships you welcome him on board.

Ed Pinkney · Post #14 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:33 pm

Elrod is Back wrote:
IcedKarl wrote:I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

Pop has fantastic superstars in Robinson and Duncan and Parker and Ginobili which made all the difference, for sure. But he also had guys like Stephen Jackson who had immense talent but were difficult to coach. Jackson was a key player on the 2003 Spurs championship team.

Anyone else though? One player for a short duration in a 23-24 year span is not exactly doing it tough.

greenroom31 · Post #15 » by **greenroom31** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:35 pm

Pop is notorious for bringing players into the fold and into the culture he creates. He is similar to Belichick in that regard, and bonds with players over team/family dinners and talking to them about life in general.

Brad's style seems to be more like taking the Mr. Rogers approach to just being a really nice person and hoping you'll follow the golden rule and reciprocate. That works until it doesn't. Given that this has reached the level where national pundits are talking about it, this is a valid and important discussion by the way. It's also reflected in our offseason moves where we made a conscious effort to draft "good guys" since we know that's what Brad can coach.

Gooner · Post #16 » by **Gooner** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:35 pm

I don't think he has a strong personality and that is a major flaw for a coach. Now Kyrie is gone and there is no more excuses.

Elrod is Back · Post #17 » by **Elrod is Back** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:37 pm

ParticleMan wrote:i agree with this. but brad is also young. lots of coaches grow and learn. think about belichick's cleveland stint, total disaster. the question is, do you think brad can learn and grow from this past season?

i certainly wouldn't put it past him.

I agree. And based on Brad's self-criticism he seems aware of the issue.

But Danny seems to still have the training wheels on his roster construction. I don't think he is confident that Brad can handle rougher-edged dudes quite yet.

So in my mind the jury is out on this issue, and will be until Brad wins a title or successfully coaches a hard-to-handle talented player.

Elrod is Back · Post #18 » by **Elrod is Back** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:40 pm

Ed Pinkney wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:
IcedKarl wrote:I can agree with you to an extent, however if you look at the greatest coach in the history of the NBA(Pop), he's essentially focused on having level-headed, non-douche-bags on his teams.

Obviously, he had TD, Manu and Parker, all amazing, all-star level players but it's still an example of how it is possible. You don't NEED to be or have a Kobe to win it all.

Pop has fantastic superstars in Robinson and Duncan and Parker and Ginobili which made all the difference, for sure. But he also had guys like Stephen Jackson who had immense talent but were difficult to coach. Jackson was a key player on the 2003 Spurs championship team.

Anyone else though? One player for a short duration in a 23-24 year span is not exactly doing it tough.

There were possibly others. Looks, if Brad wins a title or two, then he can have Pop's gravitas and run guys like Jackson out of town and lay down the law. But he might never win that title if the program is built around Tim Duncan walking through that door.

ermocrate · Post #19 » by **ermocrate** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:41 pm

It’s not about growing up, he doesn’t even try, his mindset is completely wrong imho

hickfromfrenchlick · Post #20 » by **hickfromfrenchlick** » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:41 pm

Elrod is Back wrote:Chris Webber called into NBA-TV last night to discuss the free agent signings and the discussion turned to the Celtics and why the Kyrie experiment failed.

Webber was critical of Kyrie, but he was equally critical of Brad Stevens, saying that Brad has yet to show he can coach NBA veteran stars, meaning big ego guys with an agenda but also the talent to win games consistently. Webber was quick to acknowledge that Stevens is a good coach, but he said Stevens lost control of the locker room and that was on him.

I have to agree. Danny has pretty much given Brad a knucklehead-free roster since he has been here. The hard-to-handle guys, like Rondo and Jordan Crawford, where shipped out as quickly as possible. By contrast, Danny threw Ricky Davis, Sebastian Telfair, Rajon Rondo and a cast of thousand at Doc Rivers, who handled these guys as well as any coach could.

Kyrie was Brad's first real challenge and he failed.

Danny's response, based on the recent draft, seems to be to double down stocking the roster with easy-to-coach great guys.
The problem is that Brad and boy scouts can clearly be a playoff team, a winning team, and a lovable team, but unless we magically get a boy scout superstar handed to us, it will not be a championship team. Rooting for the underdog is fun and all that, but the point of the exercise is to compete for titles, not for a remake of Hoosiers.

The great coaches have all been able to handle difficult personalities. Brad had better get comfortable doing that or he will gravitate to being a mediocre coach, and I suspect he will end up back in the college ranks within a few years.

Everybody's a critic.

Kyrie wasn't a "challenge." He's a total weirdo who doesn't sign charity basketballs.

No coach was going to guide that team to a title. Not Red. Not Riley. Not Doc. Not the Zenmaster. Nobody.

I agree Brad hasn't yet proved himself, and that he didn't have a great season (it wasn't all Kyrie's fault, obviously), but people are over-correcting after calling him the 2nd best coach in the NBA.