Thunder Offseason Thread

[loveandbeer]

Yeah, don't see the point in attaching assets to CP3 just to get rid of him?

[Kizz Fastfists]

My biggest fear in all this is that CP looks better by not having to bend his game to Harden and this team overachieves enough that management thinks it’s a good idea to ride with them.

I mean, that’d be about as damaging to the franchise’s long term growth as him blowing out his ACL the first game of the season. At least then you’d lose games and could start with the selling off of Gallo and Adams.

You are both right and wrong. CP will look better not having to bend to Harden. As OKC currently stands they are more likely to make the playoffs than miss them. Riding with this team for one year does likely cost OKC their pick to Philly in next year's draft. However, they wouldn't ride this team out for more than a year. Even if they looked like they were going to make the playoffs 20 games in Presti would still be listening to offers on Gallinari and CP3. Even if they rode out next year they wouldn't resign Gallinari and by making the playoffs it would likely boost CP3's trade value enough to make up for the loss of that singular pick.

Best case scenario: OKC gets fair value for CP3 and Gallinari before the season starts. I think that is 90% likely with Gallinari and 50% with CP3.

Worst case scenario: OKC holds them both until after the season starts and 20 games in gets fair value for both. Down side is OKC wins 3-4 more games than they would have otherwise, but they should still end up in the lottery and with the new flattened odds it shouldn't effect their chances of a top 5 pick much.

People need to relax. There is no rush on a CP3 trade. His value isn't dropping with each passing day. Also, Adams isn't an assets to sell. He doesn't add wins to a bad team, although he does do things that can help a good team. He might get moved, but if he doesn't that doesn't change how the season will go. He's not an impact player like CP3 or, to a lesser extent, Gallinari.

[jake_swivel]

My biggest fear in all this is that CP looks better by not having to bend his game to Harden and this team overachieves enough that management thinks it’s a good idea to ride with them.

I mean, that’d be about as damaging to the franchise’s long term growth as him blowing out his ACL the first game of the season. At least then you’d lose games and could start with the selling off of Gallo and Adams.

You are both right and wrong. CP will look better not having to bend to Harden. As OKC currently stands they are more likely to make the playoffs than miss them. Riding with this team for one year does likely cost OKC their pick to Philly in next year's draft. However, they wouldn't ride this team out for more than a year. Even if they looked like they were going to make the playoffs 20 games in Presti would still be listening to offers on Gallinari and CP3. Even if they rode out next year they wouldn't resign Gallinari and by making the playoffs it would likely boost CP3's trade value enough to make up for the loss of that singular pick.

Best case scenario: OKC gets fair value for CP3 and Gallinari before the season starts. I think that is 90% likely with Gallinari and 50% with CP3.

Worst case scenario: OKC holds them both until after the season starts and 20 games in gets fair value for both. Down side is OKC wins 3-4 more games than they would have otherwise, but they should still end up in the lottery and with the new flattened odds it shouldn't effect their chances of a top 5 pick much.

People need to relax. There is no rush on a CP3 trade. His value isn't dropping with each passing day. Also, Adams isn't an assets to sell. He doesn't add wins to a bad team, although he does do things that can help a good team. He might get moved, but if he doesn't that doesn't change how the season will go. He's not an impact player like CP3 or, to a lesser extent, Gallinari.

This is clearly wrong. Your worst case scenario discounts the possibility of injury. Even career ending injury is somewhat likely at 34. You don't take into account him pouting and demanding a trade even though he has no value, forcing OKC to attach multiple assets, which, if he were to end up with Miami, would be in his best interest, given itd allow them to strengthen his team. You don’t taken into account that his game could fall off a cliff, which happens suddenly to PGs in their mid 30s.

[ThunderBolt]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

[Dadouv47]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

Not worried at all. No way we would make the playoffs even with CP3 and no injuries. Too many good teams in the West. Guess it's good to be in the West to start a rebuild.

We could end up 9th or 10th if we are dumb enough though

[ThunderBolt]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

Not worried at all. No way we would make the playoffs even with CP3 and no injuries. Too many good teams in the West. Guess it's good to be in the West to start a rebuild.

We could end up 9th or 10th if we are dumb enough though

Striving to have the absolute worst record in the nba doesn’t have the same value with the way the lottery works now.

[Dadouv47]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

Not worried at all. No way we would make the playoffs even with CP3 and no injuries. Too many good teams in the West. Guess it's good to be in the West to start a rebuild.

We could end up 9th or 10th if we are dumb enough though

Striving to have the absolute worst record in the nba doesn’t have the same value with the way the lottery works now.

sure but still great odds of having a top 5-6 pick.

I don't care about having the worst record in the NBA. Just hope we won't end up better than 12th or 13th in the West.

[Dadouv47]

And I really don't care if keeping CP3 gives us 5+ more wins. I prefer him to stay than giving up 2-3 first round picks. But I don't trust Presti on this one.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

Muscala is better at the game of basketball than Grant. Grant is more athletic and jumps higher than Muscala. CP3 is now the coach instead of Russ. CP3 is better at the game of basketball on the court and as a coach than Russ. SGA is now a starer and is better at the game of basketball today than anyone OKC had on the roster last year not named Paul George.

'19-'20 CP3/SGA/Gallinari/Muscala/Adams > '19-'20 Russ/Ferg/PG/Grant/Adams

'19-'20 Schroder/Ferg/Muscala/Noel > '19-'20 Schroder/Abrines/Morris/Noel

OKC currently has a better roster today than when the season ended. The same can be said of other team in the West. Is the LeBron we saw last season the new LeBron? If so they are not a contender and given the injury prone history of AD they might not be the lock to make the playoffs they seem to be and keep in mind LAL was supposed to be a lock for the playoffs this time last year. LAC should make the playoffs, but PG is supposedly out until December and no one really knows how he'll return having two patched together shoulders. Denver was the youngest team in the playoffs and stands to improve due to experience. Utah should be better adding Conley. Portland made some slight upgrades. The Spurs are always good for 50ish wins.

So you have Denver, Portland, Utah and SA that should be mortal locks for the playoffs with LAC and LAL expected to be healthy enough to cruise in. Is GS really in better shape than OKC right now? Can Russell and Curry actually work? Does Klay play this season? Is WCS or Looney their 4th best player going into the season? Houston is missing the playoffs and will be lucky to be .500. Maybe Sacramento grows up fast enough to make the playoffs this year or they might still be a year away as a VERY young team.

Right now I have OKC as 7th in the West and a first round exit. That isn't good, but if they play like that in Oct/Nov/Dec then Presti gets some nice ROI in Dec/Jan for CP3, Gallinari maybe gets to flip Muscala and Schroder for minor assets. By minor assets I means 2nd round picks. The down side to that is that CP3 coaching will likely keep Donovan in a job and then all our hopes are on SGA being a competent coach and while I don't question his BBIQ and he did study under Doc Rivers for a season I don't think he's ready to be a player coach.

[ThunderBolt]

Again, the Lakers and others have age injuries to deal with, but we make the playoffs with Paul and Gallinari despite their age and injury history?

I’m not questioning the on court chemistry could be better but it’s not that simple. How does presti react when Paul tries to break in the locker room after the game in Houston and fight harden?

[Dadouv47]

LAL; LAC; Houston; Portland; GSW; Utah; Denver are way better than us. That's 7 teams.

We could fight with Spurs/Pelicans/Dallas/Kings for the 8th spot (or even 7th if one of the teams above has big injuries issues)

[Dadouv47]

Even if someone thinks Paul’s style of play will elevate others enough to compensate for our talent loss of russ and PG, and that Gallinari isn’t a huge drop off from George, how can they be expected to stay healthy enough for OKC to make the playoffs? Does that factor in Patterson or Muscala is now a starter for grant? Isn’t Billy Donovan still the head coach? This team as currently constructed isn’t making the playoffs.

Muscala is better at the game of basketball than Grant. Grant is more athletic and jumps higher than Muscala. CP3 is now the coach instead of Russ. CP3 is better at the game of basketball on the court and as a coach than Russ. SGA is now a starer and is better at the game of basketball today than anyone OKC had on the roster last year not named Paul George.

'19-'20 CP3/SGA/Gallinari/Muscala/Adams > '19-'20 Russ/Ferg/PG/Grant/Adams

'19-'20 Schroder/Ferg/Muscala/Noel > '19-'20 Schroder/Abrines/Morris/Noel

OKC currently has a better roster today than when the season ended. The same can be said of other team in the West. Is the LeBron we saw last season the new LeBron? If so they are not a contender and given the injury prone history of AD they might not be the lock to make the playoffs they seem to be and keep in mind LAL was supposed to be a lock for the playoffs this time last year. LAC should make the playoffs, but PG is supposedly out until December and no one really knows how he'll return having two patched together shoulders. Denver was the youngest team in the playoffs and stands to improve due to experience. Utah should be better adding Conley. Portland made some slight upgrades. The Spurs are always good for 50ish wins.

So you have Denver, Portland, Utah and SA that should be mortal locks for the playoffs with LAC and LAL expected to be healthy enough to cruise in. Is GS really in better shape than OKC right now? Can Russell and Curry actually work? Does Klay play this season? Is WCS or Looney their 4th best player going into the season? Houston is missing the playoffs and will be lucky to be .500. Maybe Sacramento grows up fast enough to make the playoffs this year or they might still be a year away as a VERY young team.

Right now I have OKC as 7th in the West and a first round exit. That isn't good, but if they play like that in Oct/Nov/Dec then Presti gets some nice ROI in Dec/Jan for CP3, Gallinari maybe gets to flip Muscala and Schroder for minor assets. By minor assets I means 2nd round picks. The down side to that is that CP3 coaching will likely keep Donovan in a job and then all our hopes are on SGA being a competent coach and while I don't question his BBIQ and he did study under Doc Rivers for a season I don't think he's ready to be a player coach.

1. Hell no.
2. So you are saying that SGA is already better than Westbrook? Wish you were you right

[ThunderBolt]

LAL; LAC; Houston; Portland; GSW; Utah; Denver are way better than us. That's 7 teams.

We could fight with Spurs/Pelicans/Dallas/Kings for the 8th spot (or even 7th if one of the teams above has big injuries issues)

Spurs are going to be better than us next year. They aren’t a true contender but they’ll have a better roster than last year. Kings likely jump us too as a result of natural progression. If KP can return to form, Dallas is another. We’re better than Memphis. I’m not as sold on others about New Orleans competing for a playoff spot. I dont know what to think of Phoenix.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Striving to have the absolute worst record in the nba doesn’t have the same value with the way the lottery works now.

It is still better to have a bottom 3 record than not. If I am trying to get the #1 pick I would rather have a 14% chance than try to get lucky like NOLA with a 6% chance. However, in this draft I don't think the difference between the 1st pick and the 10th pick is worth dumping assets to move CP3. This looks to be a deep draft if your chances of getting the #1 pick end up sliding from 10.5%, 5th worst record, to 6%, 9th worst record, because you were adding multiple assets by waiting out a CP3 trade then so be it.

If this projected to be a two person draft like last year did at this point then that would be a different story. However, the player I personally like the best is projected in the 7-9 range at this point. I also understand why the others are ahead of him and even the "experts" are talking about how the top of the draft can unfold in any number of ways based on how the team drafting wants to build because of the amount of top end talent at varying positions and skill sets. James Wiseman is the consensus #1 right now as a 7 footer with good ball skills and range on his jumper. I like Jaden McDaniels as the best player right now at 6'10 with good ball handing, court vision, passing and shooting skills and he is likely to be able to guard every position in the NBA and he even fits the Presti athletic freak requirement.

[Dadouv47]

LAL; LAC; Houston; Portland; GSW; Utah; Denver are way better than us. That's 7 teams.

We could fight with Spurs/Pelicans/Dallas/Kings for the 8th spot (or even 7th if one of the teams above has big injuries issues)

Spurs are going to be better than us next year. They aren’t a true contender but they’ll have a better roster than last year. Kings likely jump us too as a result of natural progression. If KP can return to form, Dallas is another. We’re better than Memphis. I’m not as sold on others about New Orleans competing for a playoff spot. I dont know what to think of Phoenix.

so ''best case'' scenario we will end up ahead of Phoenix/Memphis/Pelicans and maybe Dallas (with CP3 on our roster)

[Kizz Fastfists]

1. Hell no.
2. So you are saying that SGA is already better than Westbrook? Wish you were you right

He is. In large part because of how much more Russ will decline this season. Russ is fading fast and every time he gets his knees worked on again it just takes more out of them. He is also going to clash big time in Houston. I would love to see the conversation where he tells Capela and Tucker to block out so he can get his 10 rebounds instead of them doing their job and getting the rebounds and passing the ball ahead for a fast break opportunity. Russ will be this year's version of Melo for Houston only the Rockets won't be able to just cut him like a league minimum guy. They will either have to give up the rest of their assets to clear his contract, bench him or just deal with the destruction he delivers to their performance.

That is comparing this upcoming season's Russ and SGA. That is not to say SGA is better today than Russ was in his prime.

[ThunderBolt]

LAL; LAC; Houston; Portland; GSW; Utah; Denver are way better than us. That's 7 teams.

We could fight with Spurs/Pelicans/Dallas/Kings for the 8th spot (or even 7th if one of the teams above has big injuries issues)

Spurs are going to be better than us next year. They aren’t a true contender but they’ll have a better roster than last year. Kings likely jump us too as a result of natural progression. If KP can return to form, Dallas is another. We’re better than Memphis. I’m not as sold on others about New Orleans competing for a playoff spot. I dont know what to think of Phoenix.

so ''best case'' scenario we will end up ahead of Phoenix/Memphis/Pelicans and maybe Dallas (with CP3 on our roster)

Other than Memphis and possibly us, everything in the west will be decided by injuries. Utah could get the number one seed if George takes a while to return and kawhi misses games with load managers. The could also fall to the middle of the back if Conley gets hurt. Dallas could be really good if KP comes back 100% or could miss the playoffs. With Murray healthy, the spurs could be better than last year. This year is so wide open.

[Dadouv47]

1. Hell no.
2. So you are saying that SGA is already better than Westbrook? Wish you were you right

He is. In large part because of how much more Russ will decline this season. Russ is fading fast and every time he gets his knees worked on again it just takes more out of them. He is also going to clash big time in Houston. I would love to see the conversation where he tells Capela and Tucker to block out so he can get his 10 rebounds instead of them doing their job and getting the rebounds and passing the ball ahead for a fast break opportunity. Russ will be this year's version of Melo for Houston only the Rockets won't be able to just cut him like a league minimum guy. They will either have to give up the rest of their assets to clear his contract, bench him or just deal with the destruction he delivers to their performance.

That is comparing this upcoming season's Russ and SGA. That is not to say SGA is better today than Russ was in his prime.

yeah and Muscala is better than Grant only on your world but whatever. We got Muscala for the minimum while Grant who's paid almost 10 millions got traded for a first. Probably Muscala signed because he loves OKC while refusing some 15+ millions offers.

[Dadouv47]

Spurs are going to be better than us next year. They aren’t a true contender but they’ll have a better roster than last year. Kings likely jump us too as a result of natural progression. If KP can return to form, Dallas is another. We’re better than Memphis. I’m not as sold on others about New Orleans competing for a playoff spot. I dont know what to think of Phoenix.

so ''best case'' scenario we will end up ahead of Phoenix/Memphis/Pelicans and maybe Dallas (with CP3 on our roster)

Other than Memphis and possibly us, everything in the west will be decided by injuries. Utah could get the number one seed if George takes a while to return and kawhi misses games with load managers. The could also fall to the middle of the back if Conley gets hurt. Dallas could be really good if KP comes back 100% or could miss the playoffs. With Murray healthy, the spurs could be better than last year. This year is so wide open.

Sure, agree. Would add Phoenix in the mix

[ThunderBolt]

so ''best case'' scenario we will end up ahead of Phoenix/Memphis/Pelicans and maybe Dallas (with CP3 on our roster)

Other than Memphis and possibly us, everything in the west will be decided by injuries. Utah could get the number one seed if George takes a while to return and kawhi misses games with load managers. The could also fall to the middle of the back if Conley gets hurt. Dallas could be really good if KP comes back 100% or could miss the playoffs. With Murray healthy, the spurs could be better than last year. This year is so wide open.

Sure, agree. Would add Phoenix in the mix

Phoenix has been so bad for so long that even with bad picks like Bender, Chris and Jackson they still have managed to accumulate so decent talent with Booker, Bridges, Ayton, Oubre and Johnson. I don’t think that’s a playoff team but I think they’ll win some games. Especially if they accidentally hire a good coach and he new GM is competent.