Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

[Magic4champ]

Except Vuc isnt a unicorn center. What exactly about him do you think makes him a unicorn? as for size, OKeke is actually closer to SG/SF but without those skills other than set shot

Unicorn - defined as 7 footer, who can shoot from 3, defend the paint, make the right plays and rebound. SI gave Nowitski as the 1st unicorns, Porzingis, Durant, Embiid, KAT, Anthony Davis as examples. So for me Voooch is our unicorn however they define them. Also Bamba has the potential to also become a future unicorn.
As for size 6-8 is good, with great wingspan. OKEKE has good shooting and passing skills. He moves effectively without the ball and plays within a system.

unicorn usually defined as a one of a kind having attributes no one else has. How is Vuc different from Lopez? Marc Gasol? Embiid? Horford? KAT?

Unicorns are not even real. It's a term for modern centers who traditionally makes low post plays. They are now stretch center just to open the lane for the guards with the no hand check rule in defense. Since Vooch is shooting it effectively in the 3's he is our unicorn.

[Knightro]

NAW is already showing the ability to play PG so he easily could have been our DJ replacement next year or backup this year if Fultz doesn't play.

This is more opinion than fact IMO.

I would be weary about putting *too* much stock into what a guy did in 4 summer league games.

[PrimeThyme]

NAW is already showing the ability to play PG so he easily could have been our DJ replacement next year or backup this year if Fultz doesn't play.

This is more opinion than fact IMO.

I would be weary about putting *too* much stock into what a guy did in 4 summer league games.

What he did in summer league basically just further solidified how I already felt about him. It hasn't formed any new opinions. The playmaking, shotmaking, and ability to guard 3 positions was always there. I was on him early and most of last season. I'm confident that he's going to be able to be a primary ball handler and playmaker at the next level. It's a skill set he already has.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that next year he couldn't be a better version of MCW, or find minutes in our guard rotation. He provides a skill set we desperately lack and would be an upgrade defensively from day 1. Chuma is not only coming off of an injury but he doesn't provide anything that our other forwards already don't outside of potentially being a better 3pt shooter.

[Knightro]

Here's how I see the Okeke v. Alexander-Walker debate.

If drafted by the Magic, I don't think NAW would have played a whole lot as a rookie. I would see him as the future Evan Fournier replacement as the starting SG. I just don't think he's a full time PG in the NBA. I think he's a SG and could eventually be a very good one.

I don't see Okeke playing much this year either, even if he was totally healthy which he obviously is not. But inevitably I see him as the eventual Aaron Gordon replacement at forward.

The difference between the two scenarios is that I think the Magic could absolutely trade AG for a guard better than NAW. And now with Okeke and Aminu in the fold, they can afford to do that in an effort to balance the roster without damaging the frontcourt too much.

I'm not sure the Magic could trade Fournier for anything of value.

[Bensational]

Why has NAW become reclassified as a PG? He's SG size, he just happens to facilitate and make passes like a PG.

I could see scope where NAW found minutes amongst our lineups. If Ross slid up to play backup 3 instead of Iwundu, NAW could take the backup 2 minutes. Just depends if NAW could outplay Iwundu just yet. But the offensive firepower of Ross/NAW/DJ (assuming Fultz is legit in his claims to the starting PG role) is pretty potent with some serious spacing. Not to mention, NAW looks like a better option to run the PnR with Bamba than DJ ever has.

[tiderulz]

Unicorn - defined as 7 footer, who can shoot from 3, defend the paint, make the right plays and rebound. SI gave Nowitski as the 1st unicorns, Porzingis, Durant, Embiid, KAT, Anthony Davis as examples. So for me Voooch is our unicorn however they define them. Also Bamba has the potential to also become a future unicorn.
As for size 6-8 is good, with great wingspan. OKEKE has good shooting and passing skills. He moves effectively without the ball and plays within a system.

unicorn usually defined as a one of a kind having attributes no one else has. How is Vuc different from Lopez? Marc Gasol? Embiid? Horford? KAT?

Unicorns are not even real. It's a term for modern centers who traditionally makes low post plays. They are now stretch center just to open the lane for the guards with the no hand check rule in defense. Since Vooch is shooting it effectively in the 3's he is our unicorn.

unicorns are supposed to be rare. centers that shoot the 3 arent that rare anymore

[Knightro]

What he did in summer league basically just further solidified how I already felt about him. It hasn't formed any new opinions. The playmaking, shotmaking, and ability to guard 3 positions was always there. I was on him early and most of last season. I'm confident that he's going to be able to be a primary ball handler and playmaker at the next level. It's a skill set he already has.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that next year he couldn't be a better version of MCW, or find minutes in our guard rotation. He provides a skill set we desperately lack and would be an upgrade defensively from day 1. Chuma is not only coming off of an injury but he doesn't provide anything that our other forwards already don't outside of potentially being a better 3pt shooter.

That's fair.

I don't agree with your assessment on either guy, but you could be right.

Personally? I think NAW is a SG with some secondary creation skills. I think at his best he'll be a very good starting caliber SG, but you could be right.

I think Okeke is better than Gordon at the same age. Obviously a much better shooter, but also a more impactful defender.

[spinedoc]

Here's how I see the Okeke v. Alexander-Walker debate.

If drafted by the Magic, I don't think NAW would have played a whole lot as a rookie. I would see him as the future Evan Fournier replacement as the starting SG. I just don't think he's a full time PG in the NBA. I think he's a SG and could eventually be a very good one.

I don't see Okeke playing much this year either, even if he was totally healthy which he obviously is not. But inevitably I see him as the eventual Aaron Gordon replacement at forward.

The difference between the two scenarios is that I think the Magic could absolutely trade AG for a guard better than NAW. And now with Okeke and Aminu in the fold, they can afford to do that in an effort to balance the roster without damaging the frontcourt too much.

I'm not sure the Magic could trade Fournier for anything of value.

Interesting about trading AG for a better guard than NAW. It could be a back door way of improving our sg spot. Resigning Ross helped bolster that theory as well, but both guard spots needed help. So I doubt its three dimensional chess they were playing. It looks more like a missed opportunity. I agree that its what's going to happen eventually, but I'm not sure they were thinking in that long range way when the immediate greater need was staring them in the face. Okeke is a better three point shooting AG, he will win out in the end, but I also think it will be painful to watch them finally realize that. Management is just wanting to throw waves of hybrid forwards as a strategy, but I'm not sure its going to work as well as they do. This team is still unbalanced in the meantime.

[Knightro]

I could see scope where NAW found minutes amongst our lineups. If Ross slid up to play backup 3 instead of Iwundu, NAW could take the backup 2 minutes. Just depends if NAW could outplay Iwundu just yet. But the offensive firepower of Ross/NAW/DJ (assuming Fultz is legit in his claims to the starting PG role) is pretty potent with some serious spacing. Not to mention, NAW looks like a better option to run the PnR with Bamba than DJ ever has.

The problem with the "just play Ross at backup 3" is that there's just not enough minutes to go around anymore because they signed Aminu.

With Aminu now in the fold, we have to assume he will be the one soaking up the backup PF minutes, that means Gordon isn't gonna play 20 minutes a night as the back PF anymore. So AG is going to have to make up those minutes at SF. Which means less backup SF minutes for Ross and less backup SF minutes period.

Here's a rough break down of last year's minutes distribution during the closing stretch...

SG: Fournier 32.5, Ross 10, Iwundu 3, MCW 2.5
SF: Gordon 14.5, Ross 17.5, Iwundu 16
PF: Isaac 28.5, Gordon 19.5

Here's how I see things breaking down this season...

SG: Fournier 30, Ross 18
SF: Gordon 32, Ross 8, Aminu 8
PF: Isaac 30, Aminu 18

Not much room at the inn.

[Bensational]

I could see scope where NAW found minutes amongst our lineups. If Ross slid up to play backup 3 instead of Iwundu, NAW could take the backup 2 minutes. Just depends if NAW could outplay Iwundu just yet. But the offensive firepower of Ross/NAW/DJ (assuming Fultz is legit in his claims to the starting PG role) is pretty potent with some serious spacing. Not to mention, NAW looks like a better option to run the PnR with Bamba than DJ ever has.

The problem with the "just play Ross at backup 3" is that there's just not enough minutes to go around anymore because they signed Aminu.

With Aminu now in the fold, we have to assume he will be the one soaking up the backup PF minutes, that means Gordon isn't gonna play 20 minutes a night as the back PF anymore. So AG is going to have to make up those minutes at SF. Which means less backup SF minutes for Ross and less backup SF minutes period.

Here's a rough break down of last year's minutes distribution during the closing stretch...

SG: Fournier 32.5, Ross 10, Iwundu 3, MCW 2.5
SF: Gordon 14.5, Ross 17.5, Iwundu 16
PF: Isaac 28.5, Gordon 19.5

Here's how I see things breaking down this season...

SG: Fournier 30, Ross 18
SF: Gordon 32, Ross 8, Aminu 8
PF: Isaac 30, Aminu 18

Not much room at the inn.

Fair call. Maybe he wouldn't have had a pathway to minutes.

[Knightro]

Fair call. Maybe he wouldn't have had a pathway to minutes.

I mean the kid could have ripped it up in practice to the point where the Magic felt comfortable moving Fournier or even Ross in December, but it seems unlikely given their playoff aspirations that they’d trade or bench a veteran in favor of a rookie.

The most likely path to minutes for a guy like NAW would have come as the backup PG. But he would have needed both Fultz to flat on his face and Carter-Williams to struggle without the pressure of playing for his basketball life hanging over his head. But would backup PG be an effective use of NAW’s skills? Some thing it would be fine, I don’t really think so.

Again, I’m not knocking the kid. I like him. I just think he’s a SG in the NBA.

[Xatticus]

What he did in summer league basically just further solidified how I already felt about him. It hasn't formed any new opinions. The playmaking, shotmaking, and ability to guard 3 positions was always there. I was on him early and most of last season. I'm confident that he's going to be able to be a primary ball handler and playmaker at the next level. It's a skill set he already has.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that next year he couldn't be a better version of MCW, or find minutes in our guard rotation. He provides a skill set we desperately lack and would be an upgrade defensively from day 1. Chuma is not only coming off of an injury but he doesn't provide anything that our other forwards already don't outside of potentially being a better 3pt shooter.

That's fair.

I don't agree with your assessment on either guy, but you could be right.

Personally? I think NAW is a SG with some secondary creation skills. I think at his best he'll be a very good starting caliber SG, but you could be right.

I think Okeke is better than Gordon at the same age. Obviously a much better shooter, but also a more impactful defender.

Gordon was a full two years younger than Okeke when he was drafted. It's a difficult comparison. Okeke was 19 by the time he played his first game for Auburn. Gordon was drafted by Orlando before his 19th birthday.

I'm not going to get into arguing who was the better shooter at a particular age (it's not as clear as you might think), but I will say that Okeke has a lot to prove to demonstrate that he is anything resembling the shooter that people in this thread have claimed he is. He hit about 70% of his free throws and finished below 30% on 2-point jump shots in each season at Auburn. The 39% on 3-point field goals is nice, but not as meaningful as one might believe. The college 3-point line was between 15 inches to 3 feet shorter than the NBA distance. Lonzo Ball hit 41% of his 3-point attempts and he took them at a significantly higher frequency than did Okeke.

I'm not arguing that Okeke won't be a good shooter, but we don't really have enough evidence to suggest that he will be as of yet. He is just a pick-and-pop and spot-up shooter right now. He can attack an aggressive closeout and he can explode to finish off of a straight-line drive, but he is very much a one or two-dribble guy. His offensive game is rudimentary.

I also don't buy the argument that the Okeke pick makes sense in that it allows the team to trade Gordon. Or I should say, I fail to see how that is any more legitimate an argument as it pertains to Gordon than it would for anyone else on the team. Gordon would net more in return than someone like Fournier because he is a much better player than Fournier. How then can one argue that Okeke can so easily fill Gordon's shoes?

Our front office drafted Okeke because they believed Okeke was the best prospect. That's fine. I disagree with their assessment, but I'm glad they followed their convictions. We will just have to let time reveal the truth of it all.

[Xatticus]

I could see scope where NAW found minutes amongst our lineups. If Ross slid up to play backup 3 instead of Iwundu, NAW could take the backup 2 minutes. Just depends if NAW could outplay Iwundu just yet. But the offensive firepower of Ross/NAW/DJ (assuming Fultz is legit in his claims to the starting PG role) is pretty potent with some serious spacing. Not to mention, NAW looks like a better option to run the PnR with Bamba than DJ ever has.

The problem with the "just play Ross at backup 3" is that there's just not enough minutes to go around anymore because they signed Aminu.

With Aminu now in the fold, we have to assume he will be the one soaking up the backup PF minutes, that means Gordon isn't gonna play 20 minutes a night as the back PF anymore. So AG is going to have to make up those minutes at SF. Which means less backup SF minutes for Ross and less backup SF minutes period.

Here's a rough break down of last year's minutes distribution during the closing stretch...

SG: Fournier 32.5, Ross 10, Iwundu 3, MCW 2.5
SF: Gordon 14.5, Ross 17.5, Iwundu 16
PF: Isaac 28.5, Gordon 19.5

Here's how I see things breaking down this season...

SG: Fournier 30, Ross 18
SF: Gordon 32, Ross 8, Aminu 8
PF: Isaac 30, Aminu 18

Not much room at the inn.

I'm not drafting anyone based upon some hypothetical distribution of allocated minutes for journeymen. Augustin, Iwundu, or MCW being on the roster sure as hell isn't going to dissuade me in any way from drafting guard help. If you like the player, you will find minutes for them.

[PrimeThyme]

What he did in summer league basically just further solidified how I already felt about him. It hasn't formed any new opinions. The playmaking, shotmaking, and ability to guard 3 positions was always there. I was on him early and most of last season. I'm confident that he's going to be able to be a primary ball handler and playmaker at the next level. It's a skill set he already has.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that next year he couldn't be a better version of MCW, or find minutes in our guard rotation. He provides a skill set we desperately lack and would be an upgrade defensively from day 1. Chuma is not only coming off of an injury but he doesn't provide anything that our other forwards already don't outside of potentially being a better 3pt shooter.

That's fair.

I don't agree with your assessment on either guy, but you could be right.

Personally? I think NAW is a SG with some secondary creation skills. I think at his best he'll be a very good starting caliber SG, but you could be right.

I think Okeke is better than Gordon at the same age. Obviously a much better shooter, but also a more impactful defender.

To be clear, I'm not trying to reclassify him as a PG. I view him more as a SG long term that settles into a secondary playmaking role. But I also think he could thrive early on off the bench for a team as a primary playmaker in a combo guard role. He already has the skillset to do so imo.

Fournier will also become an expiring contract starting next summer. If focusing on the short term and completely maxing out our playoff chances for the next 1-2 years is the goal, fine, but I don't think thats in our best interest if it means passing on a guy like NAW so Fournier can remain on the team and take all of those minutes (though I think NAW would play his way into the rotation regardless).

It's hard to say he is better than AG at this time because AG was much younger coming out and didn't have a second year in college. I do not think he will be a better player but we shall see. For this pick to make sense I really hope he is.

[ezzzp]

From what I’ve read, most ACL surgery recoveries for NBA players take 9-12 months. Okeke had surgery on April 2nd...so he should be back sometime between December-March.

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[RookieStar]

wait.. we didnt sign him yet??? why??

[fendilim]

wait.. we didnt sign him yet??? why??

I don't think we lose players right until we cut or trade him?

[pepe1991]

We can't "lose " him, as team owns rights on him.

[Knightro]

I'm not drafting anyone based upon some hypothetical distribution of allocated minutes for journeymen. Augustin, Iwundu, or MCW being on the roster sure as hell isn't going to dissuade me in any way from drafting guard help. If you like the player, you will find minutes for them.

I don’t even disagree with you. That’s how it *should* be, but obviously how things should be and how things really are isn’t the same thing.

IMO there’s just no way on earth that Steve Clifford (or very many other NBA coaches for that matter, but definitely Clifford based on what we’ve seen) would bench/lower DJ Augustin, Evan Fournier or Terrence Ross’ minutes in favor of a rookie guard drafted 16th.

Not coming off a playoff season where all three of those guys played major minutes. The rookie would only get garbage minutes at first and it would take an injury or some really horrific play for them to get an opportunity.

Hell look at last year. Clifford played Grant, Simmons and Bamba for literally half the season every single friggin night until he mercifully changed the rotation. But even those moves were fueled by a trade (Simmons) and an injury (Bamba).

It’s just totally unrealistic to expect someone like NAW to crack the rotation at SG this year when the Magic already have 30+ million tied up in a starter and a backup who combined played about 58 minutes a night a year ago.

The only realistic path for minutes for a guy like NAW would have come at backup PG, where he’d have been competing with Fultz and MCW for time. Now it’s possible he could have outproduced both of them and earned minutes, but I personally don’t think he’s suited to really be an on-the-ball point guard so I don’t think that would be the best use of his skills.

Now...

Considering the Aminu agreement was announced by Woj within minutes of free agency opening, it stands to reason that they knew they were going to sign him well before that. I don’t think it’s out of the question to say they knew it before the draft.

With that in mind, assuming they do go into the season with Gordon/Isaac/Aminu all on the roster, that means Gordon (or Isaac) is going to essentially have to play full time SF in order to get Aminu on the court.

Even though he doesn’t play SG, signing Aminu creates a ripple effect up the rest of the rotation.

-Aminu is presumably going to take most/all of Gordon’s backup PF minutes
-Gordon’s minutes as the starting SF are going to increase
-Ross’ minutes as the backup SF are going to decrease
-Ross’ minutes as the backup SG are going to increase

Without signing Aminu? Sure. The Magic could have continued to basically split SF between Gordon and Ross and split PF between Isaac and Gordon and had a whole bunch of spare backup SG minutes for a rookie or MLE signing at SG.

But they opted to sign Aminu and essentially upshift everyone in the rotation.

[pepe1991]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.


DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.