Chris Paul to Miami

Post #1 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:29 pm

Ok so this is my attempt to split the issues and find something everyone can save face on.

OKC out: CP, Nader, Burton, 2021 MIA 1st, 2023 MIA 1st

MIA out: JJ, Dion, Dragic, Herro

Thunder move on from CP and get a good fit at the SG position next to SGA.

Heat get their picks and flexibility back while sacrificing the most recent pick.

SO_MONEY · Post #2 » by **SO_MONEY** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:31 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Ok so this is my attempt to split the issues and find something everyone can save face on.

OKC out: CP, Nader, Burton, 2021 MIA 1st, 2023 MIA 1st

MIA out: JJ, Dion, Dragic, Herro

Thunder move on from CP and get a good fit at the SG position next to SGA.

Heat get their picks and flexibility back while sacrificing the most recent pick.

Way too much from Heat. They are not going to give up any positive value to take back Paul.

EDIT: I guess if they get more positive value back than they value more than Herro they may.

Post #3 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:54 pm

The trade works as JJ and Dragic for Paul with or without Dion's salary on the trade checker (to my surprise, that's a big salary).

(a) Would either side do it straight up for JJ and Dragic?
(b) Is Dion considered positive value?
(c) How much difference does getting their picks back make to Miami (assuming the Paul deal makes them win more so the picks are worth a bit less)?

I hate to include guys like Herro (and Nader and Burton) because every team overvalues its young guys.

Post #4 » by **BBallFreak** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:53 pm

penbeast0 wrote:The trade works as JJ and Dragic for Paul with or without Dion's salary on the trade checker (to my surprise, that's a big salary).

(a) Would either side do it straight up for JJ and Dragic?
(b) Is Dion considered positive value?
(c) How much difference does getting their picks back make to Miami (assuming the Paul deal makes them win more so the picks are worth a bit less)?

I hate to include guys like Herro (and Nader and Burton) because every team overvalues its young guys.

(a) OKC probably would, Miami cannot. Literally, cannot. They have to be below the apron due to the sign and trade with Jimmy Butler.
(b) No, not by anyone.
(c) It's the difference.

Read on Twitter

Post #5 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:59 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:The trade works as JJ and Dragic for Paul with or without Dion's salary on the trade checker (to my surprise, that's a big salary).

(a) Would either side do it straight up for JJ and Dragic?
(b) Is Dion considered positive value?
(c) How much difference does getting their picks back make to Miami (assuming the Paul deal makes them win more so the picks are worth a bit less)?

I hate to include guys like Herro (and Nader and Burton) because every team overvalues its young guys.

(a) OKC probably would, Miami cannot. Literally, cannot. They have to be below the apron due to the sign and trade with Jimmy Butler.
(b) No, not by anyone.
(c) It's the difference.

Read on Twitter

Unsurprisingly Miami continues to leak and play in the media while OKC doesnt. If Miami had no interest they would stay quiet. They do, so they aren’t. You’ve gotta see that

Post #6 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:36 am

Not even close. You've got to see that no one actually wants Paul - not even you guys.

Post #7 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:53 am

BBallFreak wrote:Not even close. You've got to see that no one actually wants Paul - not even you guys.

So what do you make of the MIA posturing? Genuinely curious

Post #8 » by **pacers33granger** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:01 am

I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Post #9 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:03 am

pacers33granger wrote:I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?

Post #10 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:06 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Not even close. You've got to see that no one actually wants Paul - not even you guys.

So what do you make of the MIA posturing? Genuinely curious

I don't think it's posturing. I think they genuinely don't care about Paul.

Post #11 » by **pacers33granger** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:06 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?

For me at least Butler and no one else would be preferable to Butler and Paul (at his salary at least). Maybe there's a chance the two don't have issues, but I would doubt it honestly and Butler clearly wanted to be the guy since he turned down more money from a contender. Could very easily be a poor man's version of Houston with the same problem of having that massive deal on the books and less ability to move it.

Post #12 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:08 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?

Who thought Paul George and Russell Westbrook were going to shake free? We don't know yet, but it's smarter to be lean and ready then take on bloated stupidity, while sacrificing assets you should be getting in order to do it.

Post #13 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:09 am

pacers33granger wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?

For me at least Butler and no one else would be preferable to Butler and Paul (at his salary at least). Maybe there's a chance the two don't have issues, but I would doubt it honestly and Butler clearly wanted to be the guy since he turned down more money from a contender. Could very easily be a poor man's version of Houston with the same problem of having that massive deal on the books and less ability to move it.

Well without Paul that’s an 8 seed at best with CP they are more like a top 4 seed. So that’s up to butler I guess

Post #14 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:10 am

BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I think it's more the Heat want their picks back and can get a good, but massively overpaid player back more than them wanting Paul. He's probably the worst 2nd star fit for a Butler led team and Riley knows that.

Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?
Who thought Paul George and Russell Westbrook were going to shake free? We don't know yet, but it's smarter to be lean and ready then take on bloated stupidity, while sacrificing assets you should be getting in order to do it.

Problem is you don’t have the assets for either. So doesn’t really matter who shakes loose. We have your picks.

Post #15 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:13 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?
Who thought Paul George and Russell Westbrook were going to shake free? We don't know yet, but it's smarter to be lean and ready then take on bloated stupidity, while sacrificing assets you should be getting in order to do it.

Problem is you don’t have the assets for either. So doesn’t really matter who shakes loose. We have your picks.

I'm sorry, we don't have Bam, Herro, Winslow, and $30 million in expiring contracts?

Don't try to strongarm is into taking your bad contract. Keep him if you'd like, but keep him away from us...

Post #16 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:15 am

BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Who thought Paul George and Russell Westbrook were going to shake free? We don't know yet, but it's smarter to be lean and ready then take on bloated stupidity, while sacrificing assets you should be getting in order to do it.

Problem is you don’t have the assets for either. So doesn’t really matter who shakes loose. We have your picks.
I'm sorry, we don't have Bam, Herro, Winslow, and $30 million in expiring contracts?

You know I’m not in the business of undervaluing those guys, but you have a slim chance of adding someone with the present potential of Paul without any picks.

Post #17 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:26 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Problem is you don’t have the assets for either. So doesn’t really matter who shakes loose. We have your picks.
I'm sorry, we don't have Bam, Herro, Winslow, and $30 million in expiring contracts?

You know I’m not in the business of undervaluing those guys, but you have a slim chance of adding someone with the present potential of Paul without any picks.

Quite frankly, your evaluation process is your own and I don't really care about it. Chris Paul is a bad move for the Miami franchise without our picks coming back to us. Good luck finding someone else to take him!

Post #18 » by **pacers33granger** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:27 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Who do they possibly have a shot at? Butler is 30 next year, 31 for FA?

For me at least Butler and no one else would be preferable to Butler and Paul (at his salary at least). Maybe there's a chance the two don't have issues, but I would doubt it honestly and Butler clearly wanted to be the guy since he turned down more money from a contender. Could very easily be a poor man's version of Houston with the same problem of having that massive deal on the books and less ability to move it.

Well without Paul that’s an 8 seed at best with CP they are more like a top 4 seed. So that’s up to butler I guess

I get it, he's the only available star level guy out there right now and comes at a negative or neutral valuation so it's a chance to score some on court value. I'd hesitate to say a CP/Butler led team gets homecourt in the playoffs though. Certainly would be a higher seed than not having Paul, but I'm not sure that's a 2nd round team.

But being completely honest, I personally dislike Paul the person and have always thought Paul the player, though great, is overrated. Maybe he would elevate the team to a new level, but Houston thought that too.

Post #19 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:28 am

BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:I'm sorry, we don't have Bam, Herro, Winslow, and $30 million in expiring contracts?

You know I’m not in the business of undervaluing those guys, but you have a slim chance of adding someone with the present potential of Paul without any picks.
Quite frankly, your evaluation process is your own and I don't really care about it. Chris Paul is a bad move for the Miami franchise without our picks coming back to us. Good luck finding someone else to take him!

I look forward to us reconciling this dispute once Miami trades for him.

Post #20 » by **BBallFreak** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:29 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
You know I’m not in the business of undervaluing those guys, but you have a slim chance of adding someone with the present potential of Paul without any picks.
Quite frankly, your evaluation process is your own and I don't really care about it. Chris Paul is a bad move for the Miami franchise without our picks coming back to us. Good luck finding someone else to take him!

I look forward to us reconciling this dispute once Miami trades for him.

I look forward to you guys being saddled with him for the foreseeable future, or giving us our picks back.