Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

[Bensational]

DJ and Fournier could both be gone by next season, as DJ is a FA and Evan can be one. So come next season we might have wished we had NAW in the wings. Or any backcourt youth, really. At this point, if both were to leave we'd be hoping to replace both with only a draft pick, an MLE and the vet min signings. If Fultz is a flop then we may have to replace him, too.

Instead now we're forced to hope that Chuma makes Gordon expendable so we can trade him. Or maybe Bamba, since we have Vuc and Birch already.

[zaymon]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.


DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

[Knightro]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.

DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.

Again... I'm not arguing against the benefits of having a young guard prospect for 20-21 or 21-22. I think NAW would have eventually replaced Evan as the starting SG had he been drafted by the Magic.

I'm simply saying the only realistic path to minutes THIS year would have been as a backup PG because the Aminu signing has upshifted everyone in the rotation and created a crunch.

They didn't sign Aminu for almost 10M a year to play 15 minutes a night as a backup PF. He's gonna play at least 25.

Instead of splitting time between SF/PF like he did last year, Gordon is gonna have to play almost all at SF.

Instead of spitting between SG/SF, Ross is gonna play a lot more at SG.

[Knightro]

Instead now we're forced to hope that Chuma makes Gordon expendable so we can trade him. Or maybe Bamba, since we have Vuc and Birch already.

I wouldn't put this entirely on Okeke. I'd say it's Aminu and Okeke combined.

I'd like to think it was intentional based on the combination of the two moves, but whether Weltman and Hammond accidentally did it or not, they absolutely have the luxury of being able to trade Aaron Gordon now for the best guard they can acquire.

Aminu started 81 games and played over 28 minutes a night at PF for a team that made the Western Conference Finals. He's more than capable of being a starter for this team.

Okeke is a little ways off because of his knee, but he could be ready to step into the rotation as a backup by January/February and at worst by next season.

Gordon, in theory, has good trade value on his declining contract.

Obviously it's all speculation until it happens, but trading Gordon for a guard - PG or SG - seems like the next order of business for this team whether Fultz hits or not.

[spinedoc]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.


DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

[pepe1991]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.

DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.

Again... I'm not arguing against the benefits of having a young guard prospect for 20-21 or 21-22. I think NAW would have eventually replaced Evan as the starting SG had he been drafted by the Magic.

I'm simply saying the only realistic path to minutes THIS year would have been as a backup PG because the Aminu signing has upshifted everyone in the rotation and created a crunch.

They didn't sign Aminu for almost 10M a year to play 15 minutes a night as a backup PF. He's gonna play at least 25.

Instead of splitting time between SF/PF like he did last year, Gordon is gonna have to play almost all at SF.

Instead of spitting between SG/SF, Ross is gonna play a lot more at SG.

I just think it was poor asset menagment.

You do not have starting level PG and your starter at PG is 32 yeras old ,pending FA.
Your shooting guard can walk next year, and he had bad year by his standards last year.

Aside from Ross, who tends to play SF with Evan at SG to finish games, your guard backups are horrendus nba players like MCW and Iwundu.

In mean time your PF spot now has 3 players,where one ( probably Gordon) will play SF not because he should, but because you created situation where nobody else but him can.

Aminu and Isaac to me are redundant. Provide same things, similar numbers, same problems. If somebody posts season numbers by player A and player B most people couldn't tell who is who.

Where i like Aminu on MLE i don't think he was really needed.

At this stage, judging on last year, Magic 3 guards, Ross, DJ and Evan are all best used off bench , and Magic just keep betting on Fultz to be something. I already expressed my healthy scepticism about betting on potential of player that people think he is now, based on things they heard about him 2 and half years ago.

IMO NAW made more sense, both long and short term. Especially because you can't have too much shooting, passing and rebounding. There are players like him ( Eric Gordon ) who even log some time at SF because nowdays players tend to shoot more than do anything else. Size becomes bit less needed ,at least on offense.

[zaymon]

I really don't think whole NAW PT thing would be problem .

Team would not pick up MCW so third string PG was there , Evan can become FA next year and DJ is UFA next year.


DJ/ Fultz?/NAW
Evan / NAW
Gordon/Ross
Isaac/ Aminu
Vuc/Bamba/Birch

Isaac will keep playing below 30 mpg with Aminu there anyway, and Gordon could lose few min for same reason. Iwundu should be out of serious rotation anyway. Ross , being 6'7 can play SG and SF off bench

ALSO injuries happen every year.

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

[basketballRob]

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

Ross at the 3 has been our top and closing lineup for 2 1/2 years. I would have to guess by far the majority of his minutes have been at the 3.

Usually he's the first one off the bench, so I would assume Fournier continues to guard the 2 and Ross guards Isaac's man.


Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Instincts]

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

I for one love the Okeke pick and the FO philosophy. It reminds me of a young raptors team with long switchable defenders. We just need our Kawhi and we will get him one way or another because the roster and culture is set to win around him.

I don’t want to settle on average primary or secondary creators. I view that as a waste of resource.

[VFX]

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

I for one love the Okeke pick and the FO philosophy. It reminds me of a young raptors team with long switchable defenders. We just need our Kawhi and we will get him one way or another because the roster and culture is set to win around him.

I don’t want to settle on average primary or secondary creators. I view that as a waste of resource.

You do realize how ridiculous this sounds right?

He’s arguably the best player in the league right now. And no, it’s not easy to land a player like that and that’s a bad waiting game to play in order to justify the moves that have been made for better or for worse.

[Knightro]

Ross at the 3 has been our top and closing lineup for 2 1/2 years. I would have to guess by far the majority of his minutes have been at the 3.

Usually he's the first one off the bench, so I would assume Fournier continues to guard the 2 and Ross guards Isaac's man.

I did the research on the previous page. Ross played about 1/3rd of his minutes at SG and 2/3rds of his minutes at SF last year.

Last year's end of year playoff push rotation looked like this roughly...

SG: Fournier 32 MPG, Ross 10 MPG, Iwundu 3 MPG, MCW 3 MPG
SF: Gordon 14.5 MPG, Ross 17.5 MPG, Iwundu 16 MPG
PF: Isaac 28.5 MPG, Gordon 19.5 MPG

Gordon 34 MPG
Fournier 32.5 MPG
Isaac 28.5 MPG
Ross 27.5 MPG
Iwundu 19 MPG
MCW 19 MPG

I know I've said this ad nauseam in this thread, but if the Magic don't make a trade before the season starts then there's a minute crunch coming.

Al-Farouq Aminu is going to be in the Magic's rotation. There's zero doubt in my mind about this. I doubt he will match the 29 MPG he averaged in Portland, but the Magic didn't pay a guy almost 10M a year to play 15 MPG either.

I expect Aminu to settle in at around 25 MPG. So where do those minutes come from?

The simple solution is to give all 19 of Iwundu's minutes and any non-PG minutes from MCW to Aminu. That's 22 minutes right there. But it's not exactly that seamless because Aminu isn't going to be playing 6 MPG at the 2 and he isn't going to be playing 16 MPG at the 3 either.

So how does Clifford solve this? Either Weltman/Hammond solve it for him by trading one of the forwards or Clifford solves it internally by upshifting and making the team even bigger than last year.

To get Aminu on the court where the vast majority of his minutes come at his natural/best position (PF), there's no realistic solution other than Gordon (or Isaac) playing small forward basically 100% of the time.

Let's say it's Gordon. Last year he played 34 MPG. If that continues, that only leaves 14 backup minutes at SF. Ross played almost 18 minutes per night at SF last year.

See where this is going? In order to make up for the minutes he's going to lose at SF, Ross is going to have to play even more SG and so on and so on and so on.

There was never room for another SG *this* season. Down the road? Absolutely.

[UCF]

I like Wes as a player but he belongs at the end of the bench on this roster. The team should trade him while they can get value for him (a future draft pick ideally) and give him a chance to go somewhere for more minutes.

[spinedoc]

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

Hmm okay, I don't see the size argument you make, many are misfit sizes for any one position, but I do see some of the switchablility to them. Its what also confuses me when I hear people talk about a certain philosophy. I view it as redundancy. I prefer to have a more specialized approach to filling the roster. I do like guys that can play multiple positions, but you have to watch out for the saying, "jack of all trades and master of none". I also get that the sum of our parts are greater than the individual players, but I don't see the balance of this team yet. It seems like we keep going back to the well too often with one particular type of player. I don't see any focus on ball handling, shooting, and facilitating. Thanks for your response, but I still don't see a specific plan as of yet. I don't see a process, even though many here allude to there being one. Okay, so we got enough hammers, but having multiples doesn't help me when I need a screwdriver. I prefer to have the right tool for the right job, and to me we are missing some of those tools in the kit.

[Furinkazan]

We could have had a rotation like this next year.... but:
1. Its arguably worse rotation than our current projected rotation.
2. Its not a rotation WeltHam team building philosophy envisions
3. Okeke still was bpa for our office, was there any minutes for NAW or not.
4. Doesnt give us strategic position in future trades like we now have. - contenders will die for having a defensive forwards now after how league has changed during free agency. Grant went for a 1st and he is non passing streaky shooter

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

Good but Im just hoping Cliff isnt trying to duplicate Hornets roster(with one slight change that offense comes from C Vuc instead of pg) ...cause that roster didnt get him very far either
but so far Im cautios as Aminu kind of reminds me Marvin

[zaymon]

I'd be really curious to hear more about this philosophy. Can you explain it to me, because I don't see one. My only analogy I can come up with is throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. Meaning, gathering multiple guys with similar non-descript attributes and seeing who comes out on top. Its like forming an orchestra of tuba players.

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

Hmm okay, I don't see the size argument you make, many are misfit sizes for any one position, but I do see some of the switchablility to them. Its what also confuses me when I hear people talk about a certain philosophy. I view it as redundancy. I prefer to have a more specialized approach to filling the roster. I do like guys that can play multiple positions, but you have to watch out for the saying, "jack of all trades and master of none". I also get that the sum of our parts are greater than the individual players, but I don't see the balance of this team yet. It seems like we keep going back to the well too often with one particular type of player. I don't see any focus on ball handling, shooting, and facilitating. Thanks for your response, but I still don't see a specific plan as of yet. I don't see a process, even though many here allude to there being one. Okay, so we got enough hammers, but having multiples doesn't help me when I need a screwdriver. I prefer to have the right tool for the right job, and to me we are missing some of those tools in the kit.

Ok its a fun metaphore so i will try to expand it.

Lets say we have a hammer (primary ball handler), and screwdriver (secondary ball handler) and we want to build a house with limited funds. You really like your screwdriver but its red (Fournier) and your favourite color is blue(Alexander- Walker). Are you trying to make a collection of screwdrivers or build a house? Becouse nails and screws are limited in your area and getting kind of expensive (role players, in Clifford system forwards). You are already using pins to make it look decent (Ross playing out of position).

We want a blue screwdriver or screws?

[spinedoc]

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

Hmm okay, I don't see the size argument you make, many are misfit sizes for any one position, but I do see some of the switchablility to them. Its what also confuses me when I hear people talk about a certain philosophy. I view it as redundancy. I prefer to have a more specialized approach to filling the roster. I do like guys that can play multiple positions, but you have to watch out for the saying, "jack of all trades and master of none". I also get that the sum of our parts are greater than the individual players, but I don't see the balance of this team yet. It seems like we keep going back to the well too often with one particular type of player. I don't see any focus on ball handling, shooting, and facilitating. Thanks for your response, but I still don't see a specific plan as of yet. I don't see a process, even though many here allude to there being one. Okay, so we got enough hammers, but having multiples doesn't help me when I need a screwdriver. I prefer to have the right tool for the right job, and to me we are missing some of those tools in the kit.

Ok its a fun metaphore so i will try to expand it.

Lets say we have a hammer (primary ball handler), and screwdriver (secondary ball handler) and we want to build a house with limited funds. You really like your screwdriver but its red (Fournier) and your favourite color is blue(Alexander- Walker). Are you trying to make a collection of screwdrivers or build a house? Becouse nails and screws are limited in your area and getting kind of expensive (role players, in Clifford system forwards). You are already using pins to make it look decent (Ross playing out of position).

We want a blue screwdriver or screws?

Alright, let me try and work with that a little bit. First off color doesn't matter, but I get you're trying to make a point. I can't make a hammer work like a screwdriver, no matter how hard I try. So, if all I have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Hey, you don't even have to have the exact same tool I'm looking for. If you can show me that this pair of pliers will do the trick, I'm all for it. The problem I have is I see us go hammer with four assets in a row, assets being limited. That's AG, then JI, then Okeke, and then we quadruple down with Aminu. Now you may say they are all different types of hammers, ball peen, sledge, rubber mallet, and claw. The problem is what to do when they drop off a case of screws. Its not going to take long to figure out you have the wrong tool, especially since last year when we had just the two hammers before getting the third and fourth, we had the same problem. I'm so confused as to why we needed two more, and I don't care if there was a great sale on them again this year. So, we drove that analogy in the ground, but I think its all still very valid. I really don't understand why we didn't pick up a guard in that amount of time. And yes, I question people's judgement when they can't see something that obvious. We are putting a ton of faith on Fultz. If that experiment doesn't work, its a lost year in my book. The only fix is a trade by the deadline of AG for a guard.

[Instincts]

Well Weltman is quite transparent. We want positional size, great team defenders, forwards who are tall enough to protect the paint while helping, guards who are strong enough to contain bigger players on switches. Additionally by Clifford we know we want good unselfish decision makers, keeping turnovers low, good rebounders for position.

1. NAW is not good enough decision maker right now, he is quite turnover prone. His frame is a little weak, giving questions about his switchability.
2. Ross is not good enough rebounder to play big minutes at the 3 for Clifford. He is not good enough ball handler, passer to start.

I for one love the Okeke pick and the FO philosophy. It reminds me of a young raptors team with long switchable defenders. We just need our Kawhi and we will get him one way or another because the roster and culture is set to win around him.

I don’t want to settle on average primary or secondary creators. I view that as a waste of resource.

You do realize how ridiculous this sounds right?

He’s arguably the best player in the league right now. And no, it’s not easy to land a player like that and that’s a bad waiting game to play in order to justify the moves that have been made for better or for worse.

I think it is sad that you think it is a ridiculous thought for us to land an ELITE primary creator. This is now OFFICIALLY a good destination, we have the team, the culture, the management, and the coaching.

We even already have a young potentially elite PG on the roster with a 20% chance of regaining his form, I'll take that Kawhi (elite creator) bet every time, rather than meddle with marginal creators. You realize that if Fultz steps in this team is perfectly constructed with, yes, long switchable defenders, and actually quite a bit of shooting. If he doesn't there will be other ELITE options, there always are for the teams with the assets and the flexibility to take advantage of the opportunity.

You do realize how ridiculous it sounds for people to continually complain about management and optimism, when we are the most improved team in the league last year (+17 games). Be patient.

[zaymon]

Hmm okay, I don't see the size argument you make, many are misfit sizes for any one position, but I do see some of the switchablility to them. Its what also confuses me when I hear people talk about a certain philosophy. I view it as redundancy. I prefer to have a more specialized approach to filling the roster. I do like guys that can play multiple positions, but you have to watch out for the saying, "jack of all trades and master of none". I also get that the sum of our parts are greater than the individual players, but I don't see the balance of this team yet. It seems like we keep going back to the well too often with one particular type of player. I don't see any focus on ball handling, shooting, and facilitating. Thanks for your response, but I still don't see a specific plan as of yet. I don't see a process, even though many here allude to there being one. Okay, so we got enough hammers, but having multiples doesn't help me when I need a screwdriver. I prefer to have the right tool for the right job, and to me we are missing some of those tools in the kit.

Ok its a fun metaphore so i will try to expand it.

Lets say we have a hammer (primary ball handler), and screwdriver (secondary ball handler) and we want to build a house with limited funds. You really like your screwdriver but its red (Fournier) and your favourite color is blue(Alexander- Walker). Are you trying to make a collection of screwdrivers or build a house? Becouse nails and screws are limited in your area and getting kind of expensive (role players, in Clifford system forwards). You are already using pins to make it look decent (Ross playing out of position).

We want a blue screwdriver or screws?

Alright, let me try and work with that a little bit. First off color doesn't matter, but I get you're trying to make a point. I can't make a hammer work like a screwdriver, no matter how hard I try. So, if all I have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Hey, you don't even have to have the exact same tool I'm looking for. If you can show me that this pair of pliers will do the trick, I'm all for it. The problem I have is I see us go hammer with four assets in a row, assets being limited. That's AG, then JI, then Okeke, and then we quadruple down with Aminu. Now you may say they are all different types of hammers, ball peen, sledge, rubber mallet, and claw. The problem is what to do when they drop off a case of screws. Its not going to take long to figure out you have the wrong tool, especially since last year when we had just the two hammers before getting the third and fourth, we had the same problem. I'm so confused as to why we needed two more, and I don't care if there was a great sale on them again this year. So, we drove that analogy in the ground, but I think its all still very valid. I really don't understand why we didn't pick up a guard in that amount of time. And yes, I question people's judgement when they can't see something that obvious. We are putting a ton of faith on Fultz. If that experiment doesn't work, its a lost year in my book. The only fix is a trade by the deadline of AG for a guard.

You think Okeke, Gordon, Isaac and Aminu are hammers (directing our offense) and i think they are screws and nails (role players waiting for real hammer to work with them). Do we have a hammer ? Maybe we have in Fultz maybe not (Weltman thinks we have). Weltman, Hammond and Clifford clearly think its best to stack on nails waiting for the hammer then trying to screw yourself with a screwdriver.

[Instincts]

Ok its a fun metaphore so i will try to expand it.

Lets say we have a hammer (primary ball handler), and screwdriver (secondary ball handler) and we want to build a house with limited funds. You really like your screwdriver but its red (Fournier) and your favourite color is blue(Alexander- Walker). Are you trying to make a collection of screwdrivers or build a house? Becouse nails and screws are limited in your area and getting kind of expensive (role players, in Clifford system forwards). You are already using pins to make it look decent (Ross playing out of position).

We want a blue screwdriver or screws?

Alright, let me try and work with that a little bit. First off color doesn't matter, but I get you're trying to make a point. I can't make a hammer work like a screwdriver, no matter how hard I try. So, if all I have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Hey, you don't even have to have the exact same tool I'm looking for. If you can show me that this pair of pliers will do the trick, I'm all for it. The problem I have is I see us go hammer with four assets in a row, assets being limited. That's AG, then JI, then Okeke, and then we quadruple down with Aminu. Now you may say they are all different types of hammers, ball peen, sledge, rubber mallet, and claw. The problem is what to do when they drop off a case of screws. Its not going to take long to figure out you have the wrong tool, especially since last year when we had just the two hammers before getting the third and fourth, we had the same problem. I'm so confused as to why we needed two more, and I don't care if there was a great sale on them again this year. So, we drove that analogy in the ground, but I think its all still very valid. I really don't understand why we didn't pick up a guard in that amount of time. And yes, I question people's judgement when they can't see something that obvious. We are putting a ton of faith on Fultz. If that experiment doesn't work, its a lost year in my book. The only fix is a trade by the deadline of AG for a guard.

You think Okeke, Gordon, Isaac and Aminu are hammers (directing our offense) and i think they are screws and nails (role players waiting for real hammer to work with them). Do we have a hammer ? Maybe we have in Fultz maybe not (Weltman thinks we have). Weltman, Hammond and Clifford clearly think its best to stack on nails waiting for the hammer then trying to screw yourself with a screwdriver.

Well said brother. Give me a healthy ELITE primary creator to lead AG / Okeke / Issac and lets role.

[Xatticus]

Hmm okay, I don't see the size argument you make, many are misfit sizes for any one position, but I do see some of the switchablility to them. Its what also confuses me when I hear people talk about a certain philosophy. I view it as redundancy. I prefer to have a more specialized approach to filling the roster. I do like guys that can play multiple positions, but you have to watch out for the saying, "jack of all trades and master of none". I also get that the sum of our parts are greater than the individual players, but I don't see the balance of this team yet. It seems like we keep going back to the well too often with one particular type of player. I don't see any focus on ball handling, shooting, and facilitating. Thanks for your response, but I still don't see a specific plan as of yet. I don't see a process, even though many here allude to there being one. Okay, so we got enough hammers, but having multiples doesn't help me when I need a screwdriver. I prefer to have the right tool for the right job, and to me we are missing some of those tools in the kit.

Ok its a fun metaphore so i will try to expand it.

Lets say we have a hammer (primary ball handler), and screwdriver (secondary ball handler) and we want to build a house with limited funds. You really like your screwdriver but its red (Fournier) and your favourite color is blue(Alexander- Walker). Are you trying to make a collection of screwdrivers or build a house? Becouse nails and screws are limited in your area and getting kind of expensive (role players, in Clifford system forwards). You are already using pins to make it look decent (Ross playing out of position).

We want a blue screwdriver or screws?

Alright, let me try and work with that a little bit. First off color doesn't matter, but I get you're trying to make a point. I can't make a hammer work like a screwdriver, no matter how hard I try. So, if all I have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Hey, you don't even have to have the exact same tool I'm looking for. If you can show me that this pair of pliers will do the trick, I'm all for it. The problem I have is I see us go hammer with four assets in a row, assets being limited. That's AG, then JI, then Okeke, and then we quadruple down with Aminu. Now you may say they are all different types of hammers, ball peen, sledge, rubber mallet, and claw. The problem is what to do when they drop off a case of screws. Its not going to take long to figure out you have the wrong tool, especially since last year when we had just the two hammers before getting the third and fourth, we had the same problem. I'm so confused as to why we needed two more, and I don't care if there was a great sale on them again this year. So, we drove that analogy in the ground, but I think its all still very valid. I really don't understand why we didn't pick up a guard in that amount of time. And yes, I question people's judgement when they can't see something that obvious. We are putting a ton of faith on Fultz. If that experiment doesn't work, its a lost year in my book. The only fix is a trade by the deadline of AG for a guard.

https://vimeo.com/7603998