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What are your expectations for the season?

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Revenged25
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#21 » by Revenged25 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:36 am

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Yeah, I'm definitely getting off the train if we're taking back Schroder and his second year. That's all kinds of bad. Can you imagine Clarkson, Sexton, and Schroder letting anyone else on the team shoot? Plus, I suspect that leaves both teams in the tax. I think the Cavs are a couple million over the tax line if they just cut JR.


If the Cavs got Schroeder in this deal I would expect Clarkson to be out the door as he'd be easier to move than having to append assets to Schroeder. Though looking at the trade more, Cleveland would likely be able to get a future protected 1st out of it as well. This trade though using the Capulator would put OKC under the tax by about 2.8 mil. The Cavs would be about 5.8 mil over but trading Clarkson could find some cap saving as well as looking to buyout Henson and/or Delly if not outright waive/stretching them. Plenty of opportunities to still make sure they get under the luxury line before end of the year.


Not sure I'm understanding why CLE would want to eat Schroeder at all , definitely not to get Adams while losing TT for nothing
and only benefitting from Knight being gone that could be dumped at the dl anyway along with TT.
If a trade like that happened CLE would have to be getting back draft assets and I highly doubt OKC is interested in paying to get rid of the 2 best players in this trade


The only reason I had us eating Schroeder was because jbk said that OKC would only do the trade to get the immediate cap savings from JR. Well doing a trade with JR meant we couldn't realize any cap savings, such as if it was JR + Henson, so by doing it this way it allowed us to realize ~8 mil of the cap savings we would've gotten from just waiving JR this year while still getting Adams. I also thought that a Schroeder expiring next year, especially with teams like GSW and the Nets being healthy finally, would be a more attractive trade chip than Knight's this year at the deadline especially since Leonard signed a 2+1 to match PGs 2+1 as well as LeBron's contract ending at that time so FA will be pretty lit and teams would potentially be willing to pay a higher price to be able to free up the ~15.5 mil in cap going into that summer.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#22 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:36 am

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
If the Cavs got Schroeder in this deal I would expect Clarkson to be out the door as he'd be easier to move than having to append assets to Schroeder. Though looking at the trade more, Cleveland would likely be able to get a future protected 1st out of it as well. This trade though using the Capulator would put OKC under the tax by about 2.8 mil. The Cavs would be about 5.8 mil over but trading Clarkson could find some cap saving as well as looking to buyout Henson and/or Delly if not outright waive/stretching them. Plenty of opportunities to still make sure they get under the luxury line before end of the year.


Not sure I'm understanding why CLE would want to eat Schroeder at all , definitely not to get Adams while losing TT for nothing
and only benefitting from Knight being gone that could be dumped at the dl anyway along with TT.
If a trade like that happened CLE would have to be getting back draft assets and I highly doubt OKC is interested in paying to get rid of the 2 best players in this trade


The only reason I had us eating Schroeder was because jbk said that OKC would only do the trade to get the immediate cap savings from JR. Well doing a trade with JR meant we couldn't realize any cap savings, such as if it was JR + Henson, so by doing it this way it allowed us to realize ~8 mil of the cap savings we would've gotten from just waiving JR this year while still getting Adams. I also thought that a Schroeder expiring next year, especially with teams like GSW and the Nets being healthy finally, would be a more attractive trade chip than Knight's this year at the deadline especially since Leonard signed a 2+1 to match PGs 2+1 as well as LeBron's contract ending at that time so FA will be pretty lit and teams would potentially be willing to pay a higher price to be able to free up the ~15.5 mil in cap going into that summer.
I didn't say that. I said they'd do it to get off his second year. It's still not clear to me why trading for Adams is a good idea overall. If people want to gift them that cap space in the second year of his deal, okay I guess?

But I think going back into the repeater tax, or getting a much, much worse version of Clarkson on a two-year deal shouldn't even be up for discussion.

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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#23 » by Revenged25 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:45 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Not sure I'm understanding why CLE would want to eat Schroeder at all , definitely not to get Adams while losing TT for nothing
and only benefitting from Knight being gone that could be dumped at the dl anyway along with TT.
If a trade like that happened CLE would have to be getting back draft assets and I highly doubt OKC is interested in paying to get rid of the 2 best players in this trade


The only reason I had us eating Schroeder was because jbk said that OKC would only do the trade to get the immediate cap savings from JR. Well doing a trade with JR meant we couldn't realize any cap savings, such as if it was JR + Henson, so by doing it this way it allowed us to realize ~8 mil of the cap savings we would've gotten from just waiving JR this year while still getting Adams. I also thought that a Schroeder expiring next year, especially with teams like GSW and the Nets being healthy finally, would be a more attractive trade chip than Knight's this year at the deadline especially since Leonard signed a 2+1 to match PGs 2+1 as well as LeBron's contract ending at that time so FA will be pretty lit and teams would potentially be willing to pay a higher price to be able to free up the ~15.5 mil in cap going into that summer.
I didn't say that. I said they'd do it to get off his second year. It's still not clear to me why trading for Adams is a good idea overall. If people want to gift them that cap space in the second year of his deal, okay I guess?

But I think going back into the repeater tax, or getting a much, much worse version if Clarkson on a two-year deal shouldn't even be up for discussion.

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my bad it was stillwater that said it, I thought it was you for some reason. I'm perfectly happy standing pat but apparently the Cavs org might have interest in Adams which is the only reason I've attempted making such proposals.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#24 » by Stillwater » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:54 am

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
The only reason I had us eating Schroeder was because jbk said that OKC would only do the trade to get the immediate cap savings from JR. Well doing a trade with JR meant we couldn't realize any cap savings, such as if it was JR + Henson, so by doing it this way it allowed us to realize ~8 mil of the cap savings we would've gotten from just waiving JR this year while still getting Adams. I also thought that a Schroeder expiring next year, especially with teams like GSW and the Nets being healthy finally, would be a more attractive trade chip than Knight's this year at the deadline especially since Leonard signed a 2+1 to match PGs 2+1 as well as LeBron's contract ending at that time so FA will be pretty lit and teams would potentially be willing to pay a higher price to be able to free up the ~15.5 mil in cap going into that summer.
I didn't say that. I said they'd do it to get off his second year. It's still not clear to me why trading for Adams is a good idea overall. If people want to gift them that cap space in the second year of his deal, okay I guess?

But I think going back into the repeater tax, or getting a much, much worse version if Clarkson on a two-year deal shouldn't even be up for discussion.

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my bad it was stillwater that said it, I thought it was you for some reason. I'm perfectly happy standing pat but apparently the Cavs org might have interest in Adams which is the only reason I've attempted making such proposals.

okc is having a firesale but they want picks or young players same as us so the only incentive for them to trade with us is immediate cap relief taking back smith
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:06 am

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I didn't say that. I said they'd do it to get off his second year. It's still not clear to me why trading for Adams is a good idea overall. If people want to gift them that cap space in the second year of his deal, okay I guess?

But I think going back into the repeater tax, or getting a much, much worse version if Clarkson on a two-year deal shouldn't even be up for discussion.

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my bad it was stillwater that said it, I thought it was you for some reason. I'm perfectly happy standing pat but apparently the Cavs org might have interest in Adams which is the only reason I've attempted making such proposals.

okc is having a firesale but they want picks or young players same as us so the only incentive for them to trade with us is immediate cap relief taking back smith
Getting off his second year is an incentive. They'd have the $27M in cap space next year. We would not.

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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#26 » by Stillwater » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:32 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
my bad it was stillwater that said it, I thought it was you for some reason. I'm perfectly happy standing pat but apparently the Cavs org might have interest in Adams which is the only reason I've attempted making such proposals.

okc is having a firesale but they want picks or young players same as us so the only incentive for them to trade with us is immediate cap relief taking back smith
Getting off his second year is an incentive. They'd have the $27M in cap space next year. We would not.

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all im saying is smith has to be part of it if they want immediate cap relief and there is no other incentive to trade with us as a better team that has expiring's and wants adams would offer better returns.
i never thought it was a good trade for us but did suggest and do think the best we would get if cavs wanted adams would be for smith and henson's expiring steaight up.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#27 » by Pop Daddy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:05 am

I think we will loose a lot, but wont mind because of the young talent that we can see the future is bright.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#28 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:58 pm

With Nwaba walking, we're going to have the worst defensive team in the league. We'll score a lot but I think the defense is going to be borderline unwatchable.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#29 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:10 pm

jbk1234 wrote:With Nwaba walking, we're going to have the worst defensive team in the league. We'll score a lot but I think the defense is going to be borderline unwatchable.

yeah we have basically zero + defenders in the back court as is
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:16 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:With Nwaba walking, we're going to have the worst defensive team in the league. We'll score a lot but I think the defense is going to be borderline unwatchable.

yeah we have basically zero + defenders in the back court as is


We have Cedi who is a decent defender. I'm hoping that KPJ or Windler play better than I anticipate on that end but I suspect it's going to be a one pick and bucket drill. Most rookie guards play poor defense. Sexton really needs to show improvement on that end because he at least has the physical tools.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#31 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:With Nwaba walking, we're going to have the worst defensive team in the league. We'll score a lot but I think the defense is going to be borderline unwatchable.

yeah we have basically zero + defenders in the back court as is


We have Cedi who is a decent defender. I'm hoping that KPJ or Windler play better than I anticipate on that end but I suspect it's going to be a one pick and bucket drill. Most rookie guards play poor defense. Sexton really needs to show improvement on that end because he at least has the physical tools.

If KPJ and or WIndler are given minutes as off ball guard roles that could prove to be upgrades to Garland or Sexton , but I think the org will be more than lightly committed to developing the offensive chemistry of Sexton and Garland in the starting lineup despite the grind required of both of them to play good defense as well.
I don't really see Osman at the 2 but yeah he can switch onto longer 2's but that leaves Sexton or Garland on an Island with somebody else. I think Cedi continues to guard 3's and some 4's.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#32 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:27 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:yeah we have basically zero + defenders in the back court as is


We have Cedi who is a decent defender. I'm hoping that KPJ or Windler play better than I anticipate on that end but I suspect it's going to be a one pick and bucket drill. Most rookie guards play poor defense. Sexton really needs to show improvement on that end because he at least has the physical tools.

If KPJ and or WIndler are given minutes as off ball guard roles that could prove to be upgrades to Garland or Sexton , but I think the org will be more than lightly committed to developing the offensive chemistry of Sexton and Garland in the starting lineup despite the grind required of both of them to play good defense as well.
I don't really see Osman at the 2 but yeah he can switch onto longer 2's but that leaves Sexton or Garland on an Island with somebody else. I think Cedi continues to guard 3's and some 4's.


Yeah, I was extending our defensive woes all the way to the wing/SF position. You can do it up to PF if you like as we have Love and no true PF behind him. I suppose Nance can play some PF if you're willing to sacrifice offense. Henson's probably the best rim protector on the team. But there's no sugar-coating this team's defensive liabilities heading into the season.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#33 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:31 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
We have Cedi who is a decent defender. I'm hoping that KPJ or Windler play better than I anticipate on that end but I suspect it's going to be a one pick and bucket drill. Most rookie guards play poor defense. Sexton really needs to show improvement on that end because he at least has the physical tools.

If KPJ and or WIndler are given minutes as off ball guard roles that could prove to be upgrades to Garland or Sexton , but I think the org will be more than lightly committed to developing the offensive chemistry of Sexton and Garland in the starting lineup despite the grind required of both of them to play good defense as well.
I don't really see Osman at the 2 but yeah he can switch onto longer 2's but that leaves Sexton or Garland on an Island with somebody else. I think Cedi continues to guard 3's and some 4's.


Yeah, I was extending our defensive woes all the way to the wing/SF position. You can do it up to PF if you like as we have Love and no true PF behind him. I suppose Nance can play some PF if you're willing to sacrifice offense. Henson's probably the best rim protector on the team. But there's no sugar-coating this team's defensive liabilities heading into the season.


Offense is more entertaining I guess that makes sense in a tank for Wiseman campaign.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#34 » by Revenged25 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Is it crazy to think that Love could potentially average 20/10/8 before the deadline with all the shooters added to the team and the offense likely being ran through him more much like Denver does with Jokic, who averaged 20/10.8/7.3 himself last year.
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#35 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:27 pm

Revenged25 wrote:Is it crazy to think that Love could potentially average 20/10/8 before the deadline with all the shooters added to the team and the offense likely being ran through him more much like Denver does with Jokic, who averaged 20/10.8/7.3 himself last year.

That is the interesting part, does Beilein go that direction or does he stick with his typical sets...I think it's the latter but I do think Love will be the first option on most nights until Sexton,Garland or maybe somebody else shows the ability to take over games consistently. Then they will mix it up and his stats would be down some in the box score.
It will be very interesting how they use him this season and if he is basically playing to up his value so he can join a contender, or because he actually believes this roster can win . The worse case would be him being content with floating on inconsistent averages and turning into nothing more than the overpaid mentor who can still fill it up from time to time but has little trade value then follows that up with a trade request to make an excuse for his failings and the Cavs are stuck taking back bad expiring's and meh picks like most trade proposals right now.
I think if the Cavs have any concerns it will be the last option they will settle on a meh deal just to move him at the DL before he gets re-hurt or folds on effort
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Re: What are your expectations for the season? 

Post#36 » by Revenged25 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:38 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:Is it crazy to think that Love could potentially average 20/10/8 before the deadline with all the shooters added to the team and the offense likely being ran through him more much like Denver does with Jokic, who averaged 20/10.8/7.3 himself last year.

That is the interesting part, does Beilein go that direction or does he stick with his typical sets...I think it's the latter but I do think Love will be the first option on most nights until Sexton,Garland or maybe somebody else shows the ability to take over games consistently. Then they will mix it up and his stats would be down some in the box score.
It will be very interesting how they use him this season and if he is basically playing to up his value so he can join a contender, or because he actually believes this roster can win . The worse case would be him being content with floating on inconsistent averages and turning into nothing more than the overpaid mentor who can still fill it up from time to time but has little trade value then follows that up with a trade request to make an excuse for his failings and the Cavs are stuck taking back bad expiring's and meh picks like most trade proposals right now.
I think if the Cavs have any concerns it will be the last option they will settle on a meh deal just to move him at the DL before he gets re-hurt or folds on effort


Definitely going to be an interesting season. If the young players play up to their projections/potential I think the Cavs could be more dynamic than either Portland or Denver offensively, while possibly being even worse defensively, as they'd be more capable of running the offense from either the front or back court better.

I definitely think that it would take Garland & Sexton till around the trade deadline to get comfortable running the offense with all the new pieces while Love would be able to handle it easier with his experience so whether the intention is to trade Love or not his value will definitely be a lot higher if he's healthy.

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