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2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs

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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1821 » by MVP2110 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:10 am

Smart
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1822 » by RiotPunch » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:15 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?

This vote will probably go something like 83 to 1, and that's only if Nowak sees the post.

Bev.

EDIT: 83-2, MVP and Nowak should hangout.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1823 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 am

jakecronus8 wrote:Wish Collison hadn’t retired. He’d be great as the third point and could actually have a solid role here.

Quick questions regarding Giannis’ deal. When can we offer the extension, can we only offer three years, and are there any benefits to him not signing it (I.e. if he hits free agency do our bird rights escalate his potential earnings more?)

We can offer 5 year supermax next summer. This upcoming season is #7

A qualified player who has completed seven or eight years of service and has one year left on his contract is eligible for a five-year supermax (keeping the player with the same team for a total of six seasons)
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1824 » by M-C-G » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 am

Smart may be the best individual defender in the league but Bev Can hit a three. I think Smart could be worlds better if he wasn’t an idiot. Give me Bev


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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1825 » by BroncoBuck » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 am

RiotPunch wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?

This vote will probably go something like 83 to 1, and that's only if Nowak sees the post.

Bev.


Beverley has become one of the more overrated players in the league, but that said I can’t stand Marcus Smart.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1826 » by skones » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 am

M-C-G wrote:Smart may be the best individual defender in the league but Bev Can hit a three. I think Smart could be worlds better if he wasn’t an idiot. Give me Bev


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FWIW, Smart did take a big step in the right direction with regards to his three ball last season hitting a career high 36.4%. I could see situations where Smart would be more useful (if he continues to hit at least a league average rate from distance) because I think he's got more positional versatility with his size and strength than does Beverley, but in a vacuum, Beverley.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1827 » by MVP2110 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:55 am

Yep I hate Smart, with a passion, but I think he's better than Pat Bev
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1828 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:59 am

Moved this from the preseason thread. Shut that one down. Preseason stuff can be discussed here.

Warriors Analyst wrote:Some of you may have seen me pop up over the last few years here in this forum. I'm a Warriors fan first who became morbidly curious about the Bucks after we kept dumping our dregs (SJax, Maggette, Monta etc) and actually started watching the Bucks during Giannis' rookie season after watching him Dirk-step Tristan Thompson in his preseason debut. In the last two years I've probably watched as many, if not more Bucks games than I have Warriors and 10 games into the season I'd tell anyone who cared that the Bucks were going to face the Warriors in the Finals. I considered this the perfect Finals; I'd be somewhat satisfied with either outcome and we'd get to see some of the most beautiful ever played by two teams with beautiful ball movement based systems.

It goes without saying that I was devastated when the Bucks lost game 6 against Toronto. With about 20 or so seconds left when the Bucks surrendered another offensive board after Giannis' block, I spiked my phone into the ground at a party of friends, several of whom commented that they'd never seen me so sad and so emotionally affected by anything. It's been hard for me to read any media about the Bucks, save for news regarding player transactions, or to talk about that end of the season to other NBA casuals. Somehow this Warriors loss was more bearable to me, perhaps because of the circumstances like the injuries to Klay, KD, and Looney, as well as the total absence of playable bench shooters. I digress. I'm back and I am a little more optimistic about this next Bucks season than I thought I'd be.

My common point of reference for the Bucks is the Warriors and for reasons that I think are obvious and not all tied to my Warriors fandom; the unlikely MVP with a legendary work ethic and a massive chip on their shoulder and the transition from bafflingly incompetent coach to top level tactician. I think that this loss to Toronto will be a turning point in Giannis' career. His free throw shooting fell off of the cliff in high leverage situations for the third postseason in a row and he realized that he couldn't will his way to the rim against what was one of the best defensive teams of this era. Curry went through a similarly frustrating loss in 2014 against the Clippers -- a team that they could have beaten if Jackson had made tactical adjustments earlier in the series -- and that experience of being consistently trapped near the halfcourt line gave Steph valuable lessons about what to work on in the future, and the rest is history.

What makes me optimistic about the Bucks' situation is that next year will be the second season under Bud, as opposed to Steph and Kerr's first championship also being their first season together. Season 2 under Walton/ Kerr gave the Warriors a higher level of comfort with the offensive system and they started the year angry, confident, and with an increased comfort level on the court together. I wouldn't necessarily expect to see the Bucks to go 24-0 to start the season, but if I were a betting man, I'd feel pretty confident putting down some money on Giannis repeating as MVP. His three point shooting percentage increased with every month of the season, he'll almost certainly be working himself to the bone on his free throw shooting, and Bud will be able to implement more complex plays and options within the offensive system. It may sound a little silly, but I think the Bucks suffered a little bit for not being seriously challenged by opponents earlier in the playoffs. Boston gave them one punch in the mouth, but beyond that, they never had to win pube games. The system and Giannis were so dominant for most of the year that the Bucks felt comfortable relying on that in crunch time, to the point of detriment, at least by games 3-6. For the entire year, Giannis had gotten results willing himself to the paint, dunking his defender(s) into oblivion, or kicking it out to a shooter, but Toronto schemed the Bucks really well, Middleton disappeared, open shots stopped falling for the role players, and Bud didn't scheme up actions to comfortable looks for his stars.

I think that's less likely to happen next year. The loss of Brogdon is painful because he was that guy that could be relied on when you needed a tough bucket, but I'm hopeful that the Middleton and Giannis can step up as more reliable crunch time options. Going into the playoffs, I thought that Middleton may prove to be a semi-reliable closer because of his ability to hit contested 2's and the threat of Giannis as roll man in their two man game, but that clearly didn't happen. I think Middleton can improve on those things, but it's clear this team will go as far as Giannis goes and that it's on him to drag this team to victory come crunch time, which means he needs to get comfortable taking and making shots that defenses are willing to concede to him, which in the playoffs are almost always contested mid range shots. Of course, I want Giannis to also get up to 37% + from three and think that's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's supremely important that Giannis goes into his next ECF comfortable and confident taking difficult shots in crunch time, rather than getting stubborn and trying to force the issue.

Beyond the inevitable improvement of Giannis and my cautious optimism that Middleton won't be the worst contract in the league, I'm more OK with Horst's offseason than I anticipated! Brogdon to Matthews is obviously a downgrade, but I think there's something to be said for keeping Matthews' minutes to the 20-25 minute range and riding whichever of Brown/Connaughton/DiVicienzo are producing best, which will keep them all fresh come playoff time. I do think Brown is primed for a big year. He looked way more comfortable handling the ball, especially in that insane Atlanta OT game without the starters, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him spend some time as a small-ball 4, especially with the way he crashes the boards. I am also excited for another year of DJ's development! I was super impressed with his court vision and I think that as his body develops and he becomes a better finisher on the roll, it's going to open up his ability to kick out to shooters as he goes downhill. The addition of Robin Lopez struck me as a little bizarre after the Bucks couldn't buy clean looks in crunch time against Toronto, but the recent interview with Horst in which he said Robin believes he can shoot from deep gave me lots of encouragement, as does the Korver signing.

In short, I can't wait for the preseason and I am beyond excited to see angry and disrepected Giannis smash his opponents.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1829 » by MAC1987 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 am

MickeyDavis wrote:Moved this from the preseason thread. Shut that one down. Preseason stuff can be discussed here.

Warriors Analyst wrote:Some of you may have seen me pop up over the last few years here in this forum. I'm a Warriors fan first who became morbidly curious about the Bucks after we kept dumping our dregs (SJax, Maggette, Monta etc) and actually started watching the Bucks during Giannis' rookie season after watching him Dirk-step Tristan Thompson in his preseason debut. In the last two years I've probably watched as many, if not more Bucks games than I have Warriors and 10 games into the season I'd tell anyone who cared that the Bucks were going to face the Warriors in the Finals. I considered this the perfect Finals; I'd be somewhat satisfied with either outcome and we'd get to see some of the most beautiful ever played by two teams with beautiful ball movement based systems.

It goes without saying that I was devastated when the Bucks lost game 6 against Toronto. With about 20 or so seconds left when the Bucks surrendered another offensive board after Giannis' block, I spiked my phone into the ground at a party of friends, several of whom commented that they'd never seen me so sad and so emotionally affected by anything. It's been hard for me to read any media about the Bucks, save for news regarding player transactions, or to talk about that end of the season to other NBA casuals. Somehow this Warriors loss was more bearable to me, perhaps because of the circumstances like the injuries to Klay, KD, and Looney, as well as the total absence of playable bench shooters. I digress. I'm back and I am a little more optimistic about this next Bucks season than I thought I'd be.

My common point of reference for the Bucks is the Warriors and for reasons that I think are obvious and not all tied to my Warriors fandom; the unlikely MVP with a legendary work ethic and a massive chip on their shoulder and the transition from bafflingly incompetent coach to top level tactician. I think that this loss to Toronto will be a turning point in Giannis' career. His free throw shooting fell off of the cliff in high leverage situations for the third postseason in a row and he realized that he couldn't will his way to the rim against what was one of the best defensive teams of this era. Curry went through a similarly frustrating loss in 2014 against the Clippers -- a team that they could have beaten if Jackson had made tactical adjustments earlier in the series -- and that experience of being consistently trapped near the halfcourt line gave Steph valuable lessons about what to work on in the future, and the rest is history.

What makes me optimistic about the Bucks' situation is that next year will be the second season under Bud, as opposed to Steph and Kerr's first championship also being their first season together. Season 2 under Walton/ Kerr gave the Warriors a higher level of comfort with the offensive system and they started the year angry, confident, and with an increased comfort level on the court together. I wouldn't necessarily expect to see the Bucks to go 24-0 to start the season, but if I were a betting man, I'd feel pretty confident putting down some money on Giannis repeating as MVP. His three point shooting percentage increased with every month of the season, he'll almost certainly be working himself to the bone on his free throw shooting, and Bud will be able to implement more complex plays and options within the offensive system. It may sound a little silly, but I think the Bucks suffered a little bit for not being seriously challenged by opponents earlier in the playoffs. Boston gave them one punch in the mouth, but beyond that, they never had to win pube games. The system and Giannis were so dominant for most of the year that the Bucks felt comfortable relying on that in crunch time, to the point of detriment, at least by games 3-6. For the entire year, Giannis had gotten results willing himself to the paint, dunking his defender(s) into oblivion, or kicking it out to a shooter, but Toronto schemed the Bucks really well, Middleton disappeared, open shots stopped falling for the role players, and Bud didn't scheme up actions to comfortable looks for his stars.

I think that's less likely to happen next year. The loss of Brogdon is painful because he was that guy that could be relied on when you needed a tough bucket, but I'm hopeful that the Middleton and Giannis can step up as more reliable crunch time options. Going into the playoffs, I thought that Middleton may prove to be a semi-reliable closer because of his ability to hit contested 2's and the threat of Giannis as roll man in their two man game, but that clearly didn't happen. I think Middleton can improve on those things, but it's clear this team will go as far as Giannis goes and that it's on him to drag this team to victory come crunch time, which means he needs to get comfortable taking and making shots that defenses are willing to concede to him, which in the playoffs are almost always contested mid range shots. Of course, I want Giannis to also get up to 37% + from three and think that's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's supremely important that Giannis goes into his next ECF comfortable and confident taking difficult shots in crunch time, rather than getting stubborn and trying to force the issue.

Beyond the inevitable improvement of Giannis and my cautious optimism that Middleton won't be the worst contract in the league, I'm more OK with Horst's offseason than I anticipated! Brogdon to Matthews is obviously a downgrade, but I think there's something to be said for keeping Matthews' minutes to the 20-25 minute range and riding whichever of Brown/Connaughton/DiVicienzo are producing best, which will keep them all fresh come playoff time. I do think Brown is primed for a big year. He looked way more comfortable handling the ball, especially in that insane Atlanta OT game without the starters, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him spend some time as a small-ball 4, especially with the way he crashes the boards. I am also excited for another year of DJ's development! I was super impressed with his court vision and I think that as his body develops and he becomes a better finisher on the roll, it's going to open up his ability to kick out to shooters as he goes downhill. The addition of Robin Lopez struck me as a little bizarre after the Bucks couldn't buy clean looks in crunch time against Toronto, but the recent interview with Horst in which he said Robin believes he can shoot from deep gave me lots of encouragement, as does the Korver signing.

In short, I can't wait for the preseason and I am beyond excited to see angry and disrepected Giannis smash his opponents.
Wow I cant believe I read that all but good post. I liked the offseason. Not perfect but will be fun to watch again.

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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1830 » by soxperry » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:16 am

theFireBlanket wrote:November 29, 2016:
Dave McMenamin wrote:Yet privately, after the Bucks beat the pants off the Cavs 118-101 on Nov. 29, James was less than impressed with how Parker and Antetokounmpo clearly played at a higher level against the Cavs than they normally do. That made James wonder why Parker and Antetokounmpo don’t make that level of play their standard and become true professionals.


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Chris Mannix wrote: "I had confidence, but I wasn’t comfortable,” Antetokounmpo said. “I had Jason Kidd [coaching me] in the past. My second year, he told me not to shoot the ball. My third year, at the end he told me to shoot a little bit. In my fourth year he let me shoot it and in my fifth year he told me I had the green light. But I wasn’t comfortable enough.

“It’s hard. When you are not shooting the ball, it’s hard to get it back. Mike Bud came to the team, he said, ‘I need you to shoot the ball.’ He said, ‘I don’t care if you miss it, make it, hit the backboard, shoot the ball.’ It’s weird. But that’s extra motivation. I want to work hard on my three and that’s going to make me a better player a year from now, two years from now. When I’m able to do what I do, get to the paint, get to the free-throw line and then shoot the open three, it’s going to make me a better player.”


Hell yes to them at some point adding buddy Carmelo. That dude was a dick to Giannis. More fuel.


Wow.... I can't believe that Lebron video. I had no idea he was capable of something like that. What a disgusting move.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1831 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:45 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?


Didn’t realize till I looked it up. Smart not only shot 36.4% from three last year, he did it on volume of 4.33 attempts per game. Had a TS of 56.8%.

I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field. Beverley can’t do that IMO.

With Kyrie gone, Brad Steven likely goes back to playing team ball. Think Smart has a big year.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1832 » by truly » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:35 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?


Didn’t realize till I looked it up. Smart not only shot 36.4% from three last year, he did it on volume of 4.33 attempts per game. Had a TS of 56.8%.

I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field. Beverley can’t do that IMO.

With Kyrie gone, Brad Steven likely goes back to playing team ball. Think Smart has a big year.



Yet despite his improved 3 point shot he was completely useless from 3 against us in the playoffs.I remember giving him the shot like we always do and him bricking a lot of them.He went 1/11 in 2 games. :D

Not convinced at all that Smart can shoot now.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1833 » by Chuck Diesel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:50 am

Elijah Bryant forming a super team at Maccabi Tel Aviv with Nate Wolters. Fletcher McGee is off to Spain.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1834 » by emunney » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:54 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:Elijah Bryant forming a super team at Maccabi Tel Aviv with Nate Wolters. Fletcher McGee is off to Spain.


So cowardly of Elijah Bryant. I remember when players valued competition.

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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1835 » by M-C-G » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:51 pm

skones wrote:
M-C-G wrote:Smart may be the best individual defender in the league but Bev Can hit a three. I think Smart could be worlds better if he wasn’t an idiot. Give me Bev


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FWIW, Smart did take a big step in the right direction with regards to his three ball last season hitting a career high 36.4%. I could see situations where Smart would be more useful (if he continues to hit at least a league average rate from distance) because I think he's got more positional versatility with his size and strength than does Beverley, but in a vacuum, Beverley.


I'm fairly shocked by this, given how awful he looks as a shooter. If that holds another season, I will rethink my answer. I'll also add, Smart being such a douchey flopper has probably swayed my opinion, at least subconsciously.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1836 » by ReddRum » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:05 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?


Didn’t realize till I looked it up. Smart not only shot 36.4% from three last year, he did it on volume of 4.33 attempts per game. Had a TS of 56.8%.

I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field. Beverley can’t do that IMO.

With Kyrie gone, Brad Steven likely goes back to playing team ball. Think Smart has a big year.


PP: "I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field."

THIS
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1837 » by MiltownHawkeye » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:18 pm

truly wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?


Didn’t realize till I looked it up. Smart not only shot 36.4% from three last year, he did it on volume of 4.33 attempts per game. Had a TS of 56.8%.

I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field. Beverley can’t do that IMO.

With Kyrie gone, Brad Steven likely goes back to playing team ball. Think Smart has a big year.



Yet despite his improved 3 point shot he was completely useless from 3 against us in the playoffs.I remember giving him the shot like we always do and him bricking a lot of them.He went 1/11 in 2 games. :D

Not convinced at all that Smart can shoot now.

Smart had to rush back from injury to play us. He's still not great but he's not a 9% 3-point shooter
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1838 » by Jimmmycrackcorn » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:47 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:In a heated argument with my buddy. Who do you guys think is better, Patrick Beverley or Marcus Smart?


Didn’t realize till I looked it up. Smart not only shot 36.4% from three last year, he did it on volume of 4.33 attempts per game. Had a TS of 56.8%.

I’d take Smart. He has moments where he can tilt the playing field. Beverley can’t do that IMO.

With Kyrie gone, Brad Steven likely goes back to playing team ball. Think Smart has a big year.

basketball teams play on a court....not a field

therefore Smarf is useless

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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1839 » by emunney » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:54 pm

I think losing Horford is going to hurt the efficiency of every returning perimeter player Boston has.
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Re: 2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs 

Post#1840 » by Badgerlander » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:38 pm

emunney wrote:I think losing Horford is going to hurt the efficiency of every returning perimeter player Boston has.


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