We have a glut of bigs

[minimus]

KAT should play at absolute minimum 32 minutes IMO. He's durable and has never given the tiniest hint at needing his load managed to that extent. Somewhere between 36 and 32 minutes is OK. The more Covington plays SF I bet it means the more Wiggins plays SG curtailing Culver's time on the court. I don't want that. RoCo should get at least 16 minutes at the PF.

I'm okay with KAT playing way below league average mpg, I'd keep RoCo under 30 minutes as well. I'm okay with reducing playing time after b2b games or games with overtimes or games after long travels. Keeping KAT and other guys healthy while playing competetive basketball should #1 priority

Playing time is valuable resource. Get maximum out of these minutes from KAT/Wiggins/RoCo trio, use minutes left to develop young players. Once our leaders are on the bench it should be up to our bench to step up, both in intensity and hustle.

I dont want to see meangless injuries that can hurt our season again.

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

You sounds like Thibs. All his ex players are either declining quickly or broken. The problem is that NBA reality is changing. As NBA organization you must manage playing time wisely otherwise you might fall out cliff very quickly. See GSW case with KD and Klay. Only miracle will help them to survive next season with Curry as main option in offense. Miracle or very strict minutes.

[KGdaBom]

I'm okay with KAT playing way below league average mpg, I'd keep RoCo under 30 minutes as well. I'm okay with reducing playing time after b2b games or games with overtimes or games after long travels. Keeping KAT and other guys healthy while playing competetive basketball should #1 priority

Playing time is valuable resource. Get maximum out of these minutes from KAT/Wiggins/RoCo trio, use minutes left to develop young players. Once our leaders are on the bench it should be up to our bench to step up, both in intensity and hustle.

I dont want to see meangless injuries that can hurt our season again.

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

You sounds like Thibs. All his ex players are either declining quickly or broken. The problem is that NBA reality is changing. As NBA organization you must manage playing time wisely otherwise you might fall out cliff very quickly. See GSW case with KD and Klay. Only miracle will help them to survive next season with Curry as main option in offense. Miracle or very strict minutes.

First of all comparing me to Thibs since you despise him is a total BS tactic and I resent it. However, Butler is an ex Thibs playerand is not declining quickly or broken so I have proved your all his ex players are declining quickly or broken comment false. Second their is zero evidence that higher minutes leads to higher injury rate. The reason to control minutes is for productivity not injury prevention. The Warriors played KD and Klay the right amount of minutes. Them getting injured had NOTHING to do with their minutes. KAT is a young supremely talented and well conditioned athlete. He can easily handle 36 MPG with zero negative effect. Most NBA players got good at basketball by playing all day at the public parks and not coming off the court until somebody beat them. Why don't we just limit him to 10 MPG? That will keep him fresh and healthy. You are being so ridiculous. The best players play 36 MPG. Centers usually a bit less so I wouldn't hate 32. You want us to play KAT way below league average minutes which I think for starters is 30. How many minutes is way below? Maybe 24. We will never be successful playing KAT way below the league average minutes. This isn't Rocket science. We shouldn't play our best player way below league average minutes.

[Killboard]

Now I am thinking that all these Wiggins videos are promotional in order to trade him later.

P.S. If we can somehow manage to trade Wiggins with only one FRP attached to get DLo it will be an ideal scenario for us.

That's not happening. We could dump Wiggins with only a 1st attached at some point, for a equally bad but shorter contract. Still the Warriors arent taking back whatever we got in return and would require at least Roco.
So would be Wiggins+1st+Roco+something else for Dlo and taking back bad money(for a shorter contract) at very least.

But I dont think a S&T for Russell this offseason was a big risk, basically because you were using Teague money for 75% of that contract. With him choosing the Warriors we keep our flexibility for 2021-2022 in case someone want to come here by then, so that's good. The bad is we lose 2 years of KAT extension in which I think would be competitive basketball with still plenty of upside.

Flexibilty before 2021-2022 will be bad no matter (except somebody is praying to get Dieng or Wiggins, highly unlikely to me) and I dont think anybody as good as DLo is getting here in the meantime without losing major pieces.

The Warriors will quickly find out that Russell is a very bad fit for their team. When December 15th rolls around they will be thrilled to take RoCo and Teague in a straight up trade for Russell. No picks involved either way. I don't see any way they would be taking Wiggins.

I would have prefered losing 2 protected firsts than losing Roco for the rights to max Russell. The chance to any of those picks to become as good as Roco at some point in the careers is very narrow. You can make an argument those 2 rookies could have helped with the financial situation but Roco deal is also very good while not needing time to develop.

I also would question Dlo intentions to be here after he choosed a team who is eager to move him above us.

[KGdaBom]

That's not happening. We could dump Wiggins with only a 1st attached at some point, for a equally bad but shorter contract. Still the Warriors arent taking back whatever we got in return and would require at least Roco.
So would be Wiggins+1st+Roco+something else for Dlo and taking back bad money(for a shorter contract) at very least.

But I dont think a S&T for Russell this offseason was a big risk, basically because you were using Teague money for 75% of that contract. With him choosing the Warriors we keep our flexibility for 2021-2022 in case someone want to come here by then, so that's good. The bad is we lose 2 years of KAT extension in which I think would be competitive basketball with still plenty of upside.

Flexibilty before 2021-2022 will be bad no matter (except somebody is praying to get Dieng or Wiggins, highly unlikely to me) and I dont think anybody as good as DLo is getting here in the meantime without losing major pieces.

The Warriors will quickly find out that Russell is a very bad fit for their team. When December 15th rolls around they will be thrilled to take RoCo and Teague in a straight up trade for Russell. No picks involved either way. I don't see any way they would be taking Wiggins.

I would have prefered losing 2 protected firsts than losing Roco for the rights to max Russell. The chance to any of those picks to become as good as Roco at some point in the careers is very narrow. You can make an argument those 2 rookies could have helped with the financial situation but Roco deal is also very good while not needing time to develop.

I also would question Dlo intentions to be here after he choosed a team who is eager to move him above us.

I agree with you about losing 2 Lottery protected FRPs over RoCo, but RoCo and Teague will be the price if the deal happens.

[minimus]

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

You sounds like Thibs. All his ex players are either declining quickly or broken. The problem is that NBA reality is changing. As NBA organization you must manage playing time wisely otherwise you might fall out cliff very quickly. See GSW case with KD and Klay. Only miracle will help them to survive next season with Curry as main option in offense. Miracle or very strict minutes.

First of all comparing me to Thibs since you despise him is a total BS tactic and I resent it. Second their is zero evidence that higher minutes leads to higher injury rate. The reason to control minutes is for productivity not injury prevention. The Warriors played KD and Klay the right amount of minutes. Them getting injured had NOTHING to do with their minutes. KAT is a young supremely talented and well conditioned athlete. He can easily handle 36 MPG with zero negative effect. Most NBA players got good at basketball by playing all day at the public parks and not coming off the court until somebody beat them. Why don't we just limit him to 10 MPG? That will keep him fresh and healthy. You are being so ridiculous. The best players play 36 MPG. Centers usually a bit less so I wouldn't hate 32. You want us to play KAT way below league average minutes which I think for starters is 30. How many minutes is way below? Maybe 24. We will never be successful playing KAT way below the league average minutes. This isn't Rocket science. We shouldn't play our best player way below league average minutes.

I wrote you sounds like Thibs, not that you are Thibs. That is a big difference.

My question is: do you want KAT to play for us next 2-3 seasons or 10-12? High minutes themselves does not guarantee you results. All players have their internal resource. KAT can play all his big minutes before his 30s or he can play till like Tim Duncan under Popovic. Depends on schedule, matchups, physical shape etc I would vary workload on KAT, giving him much needed rest, save his energy for defense, giving more run to young players. At some point I would even like to see Reid seeing minutes at backup C.

[KGdaBom]

You sounds like Thibs. All his ex players are either declining quickly or broken. The problem is that NBA reality is changing. As NBA organization you must manage playing time wisely otherwise you might fall out cliff very quickly. See GSW case with KD and Klay. Only miracle will help them to survive next season with Curry as main option in offense. Miracle or very strict minutes.

First of all comparing me to Thibs since you despise him is a total BS tactic and I resent it. Second their is zero evidence that higher minutes leads to higher injury rate. The reason to control minutes is for productivity not injury prevention. The Warriors played KD and Klay the right amount of minutes. Them getting injured had NOTHING to do with their minutes. KAT is a young supremely talented and well conditioned athlete. He can easily handle 36 MPG with zero negative effect. Most NBA players got good at basketball by playing all day at the public parks and not coming off the court until somebody beat them. Why don't we just limit him to 10 MPG? That will keep him fresh and healthy. You are being so ridiculous. The best players play 36 MPG. Centers usually a bit less so I wouldn't hate 32. You want us to play KAT way below league average minutes which I think for starters is 30. How many minutes is way below? Maybe 24. We will never be successful playing KAT way below the league average minutes. This isn't Rocket science. We shouldn't play our best player way below league average minutes.

I wrote you sounds like Thibs, not that you are Thibs. That is a big difference.

My question is: do you want KAT to play for us next 2-3 seasons or 10-12? High minutes themselves does not guarantee you results. All players have their internal resource. KAT can play all his big minutes before his 30s or he can play till like Tim Duncan under Popovic. Depends on schedule, matchups, physical shape etc I would vary workload on KAT, giving him much needed rest, save his energy for defense, giving more run to young players. At some point I would even like to see Reid seeing minutes at backup C.

As far as I know Thibs has never stated anything remotely similar to what I posted. If you can find it give me a link or copy and paste it here. How way Below league average minutes do you want KAT to play? League average minutes for any player is about 24 assuming a team plays ten players in a game. If you mean league average minutes for starters I think it's about 30. If you mean league average minutes for starting centers I think it is about 28. So how much below those numbers do you want KAT to play? I'm thinking 24 would be generous to be way below the league average. We will not be successful playing KAT less than 32 per game much less 24. You are so overboard on load management that I am very happy you have nothing to do with running the Wolves.

[Dewey]

The warriors want RoCo ... he fits the defensive role model via Iggy and Green. Dec 15th gives warriors time to get Thompson back and allows RoCo to get healthy as well. Timeline sorta matches. Teague will be moved in a 3-way deal. Teague could also have strong value alone if there would be an injury to PG or two out there. Right or wrong, like it or not, I think that's the tentative deal that hangs in the balance.

Russell, Culver, Wiggins, Vonleh, KAT
Napier, Okogie, Layman, KDB, Bell/Dieng
McLaughlin, Wallace, Reid

[minimus]

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

Former Bulls forward Deng averaged 39.1, 39.4 and 38.7 minutes in his first three seasons with Thibodeau. He had a series of nagging injuries before aging seemingly overnight, and for three seasons has been the shell of the All-Star player he once was.

Noah was a two-time All-Star who won Kia Defensive Player of the Year and finished fourth in MVP balloting in 2014. He, too, embraced Thibodeau’s work ethic and played through injuries until he couldn’t. Noah missed 53 games in his final season with the Bulls and has appeared in only 52 of a possible 120 games since signing a four-year, $72-million deal with the Knicks.

Rose remains the poster guy for careers waylaid by injuries, most traumatically his blown left ACL in the playoff opener of 2012. The Bulls’ point guard had missed 27 of the post-lockout 66-game schedule with various ailments before suffering his knee injury late in the Game 1 victory over Philadelphia, the outcome arguably no longer dependent on his services. It is right to criticize Tom Thibodeau for Derrick Rose's injury. The injury occurred with 1:22 left in the fourth quarter, with the Bulls up 12 against the Philadelphia 76ers, in Game 1 of their opening round playoff series.

Then in MIN:

LaVine averaged 37.2 minutes last season for the Wolves before tearing his ACL.

Butler was averaging a whopping 37.1 minutes per game this season before the injury, good for second in the league in minutes per game.

[KGdaBom]

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

Former Bulls forward Deng averaged 39.1, 39.4 and 38.7 minutes in his first three seasons with Thibodeau. He had a series of nagging injuries before aging seemingly overnight, and for three seasons has been the shell of the All-Star player he once was.

Noah was a two-time All-Star who won Kia Defensive Player of the Year and finished fourth in MVP balloting in 2014. He, too, embraced Thibodeau’s work ethic and played through injuries until he couldn’t. Noah missed 53 games in his final season with the Bulls and has appeared in only 52 of a possible 120 games since signing a four-year, $72-million deal with the Knicks.

Rose remains the poster guy for careers waylaid by injuries, most traumatically his blown left ACL in the playoff opener of 2012. The Bulls’ point guard had missed 27 of the post-lockout 66-game schedule with various ailments before suffering his knee injury late in the Game 1 victory over Philadelphia, the outcome arguably no longer dependent on his services. It is right to criticize Tom Thibodeau for Derrick Rose's injury. The injury occurred with 1:22 left in the fourth quarter, with the Bulls up 12 against the Philadelphia 76ers, in Game 1 of their opening round playoff series.

Then in MIN:

LaVine averaged 37.2 minutes last season for the Wolves before tearing his ACL.

Butler was averaging a whopping 37.1 minutes per game this season before the injury, good for second in the league in minutes per game.

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes. Butler is neither declining quickly or broken. That proves your comment false. Why do you continue dodging my question about how way below league average minutes that you want KAT to play? I get not running players into the ground, but you seem to have a fetish for it. We aren't playing KAT 30 Million a year to get less than a minute per game per million of play.
What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

[shrink]

I like big gluts, and I cannot lie.

[minimus]

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.

Former Bulls forward Deng averaged 39.1, 39.4 and 38.7 minutes in his first three seasons with Thibodeau. He had a series of nagging injuries before aging seemingly overnight, and for three seasons has been the shell of the All-Star player he once was.

Noah was a two-time All-Star who won Kia Defensive Player of the Year and finished fourth in MVP balloting in 2014. He, too, embraced Thibodeau’s work ethic and played through injuries until he couldn’t. Noah missed 53 games in his final season with the Bulls and has appeared in only 52 of a possible 120 games since signing a four-year, $72-million deal with the Knicks.

Rose remains the poster guy for careers waylaid by injuries, most traumatically his blown left ACL in the playoff opener of 2012. The Bulls’ point guard had missed 27 of the post-lockout 66-game schedule with various ailments before suffering his knee injury late in the Game 1 victory over Philadelphia, the outcome arguably no longer dependent on his services. It is right to criticize Tom Thibodeau for Derrick Rose's injury. The injury occurred with 1:22 left in the fourth quarter, with the Bulls up 12 against the Philadelphia 76ers, in Game 1 of their opening round playoff series.

Then in MIN:

LaVine averaged 37.2 minutes last season for the Wolves before tearing his ACL.

Butler was averaging a whopping 37.1 minutes per game this season before the injury, good for second in the league in minutes per game.

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes.

What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

Watch on YouTube

[TheProdigy]

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes. Butler is neither declining quickly or broken. That proves your comment false. Why do you continue dodging my question about how way below league average minutes that you want KAT to play? I get not running players into the ground, but you seem to have a fetish for it. We aren't playing KAT 30 Million a year to get less than a minute per game per million of play.
What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

No correlation? You sound pretty confident so I assume you have some concrete evidence to support your claim. Could you please share with the rest of us?

[KGdaBom]

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes. Butler is neither declining quickly or broken. That proves your comment false. Why do you continue dodging my question about how way below league average minutes that you want KAT to play? I get not running players into the ground, but you seem to have a fetish for it. We aren't playing KAT 30 Million a year to get less than a minute per game per million of play.
What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

No correlation? You sound pretty confident so I assume you have some concrete evidence to support your claim. Could you please share with the rest of us?

No I don't provide evidence of non-existence. It's much easier to provide evidence of existence if indeed something exists. To help you though, I'm talking about injuries per minute played. Somebody who plays 5 minutes should only have 1/8 the injuries of somebody playing 40 minutes. If the people playing 40 minutes get 16 times the injuries of the people playing 5 minutes that would be a strong correlation. I'm 99% certain it doesn't exist. If it does you show me.

[KGdaBom]

Then in MIN:

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes.

What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

Watch on YouTube

Thanks I will listen to this and see if it has any similarity to anything I've said. if it does than Thibs is smarter than I thought he was.

[shrink]

I believe John Hollinger did some work on this, and he came to the conclusion that players become more likely to get injured once they pass a certain threshold of total minutes, and a threshold on minutes per game. In other words, there is some evidence for load management (and we will see a lot of that this year after Kawhi), with games off, and less minutes each game.

The human body can only recover a certain amount from the bangs and bruises between constant nba games. Minor injuries weaken the supporting structures in the body, make it harder for blood flow to reach injured parts of your body for healing, and sometimes force athletes to do activities in different ways which sometimes results in new injuries. His work is sometimes cited when they have discussions about shortening the season, too.

EDIT: I’m not comfortable with the clarity of my explanation, so let me give an example. Yes, you’re right, that there is only a slight increase in injuries from 5 mpg to 10 mpg, and even that small increase can be explained by simply more court time, same with 10 to 15, 15 to 20, etc. However, Hollinger saw a marked increase when players went from, say 34 to 38 (I can’t remember the specific number). At this area, they’ve crossed a threshold because their body is tired and beaten up, and more likely to get injured. Repeatedly going above this number makes things even worse, as the injuries add up and it gets harder and harder to heal.

[Folklore]

I must be the only one who thinks that Naz should be getting as much playing time with the core as possible. Watching him play he has too much potential to be sent to the G league just to give guys who aren't committed here long term more minutes. What did giving Rose and Taj minutes do for the team thus season? They're both on different teams now. Gorg is under contract and is our vet, he should be given time if he's playing better than the new guys.if anything he showed that he developed a better shot from 3 so his value should go up. But I really think that we should have been trying to add some vets like Zach, and Carter and made a trade with Orlando to get one of their PF. (if they aren't retired)

[TheProdigy]

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes. Butler is neither declining quickly or broken. That proves your comment false. Why do you continue dodging my question about how way below league average minutes that you want KAT to play? I get not running players into the ground, but you seem to have a fetish for it. We aren't playing KAT 30 Million a year to get less than a minute per game per million of play.
What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

No correlation? You sound pretty confident so I assume you have some concrete evidence to support your claim. Could you please share with the rest of us?

No I don't provide evidence of non-existence. It's much easier to provide evidence of existence if indeed something exists. To help you though, I'm talking about injuries per minute played. Somebody who plays 5 minutes should only have 1/8 the injuries of somebody playing 40 minutes. If the people playing 40 minutes get 16 times the injuries of the people playing 5 minutes that would be a strong correlation. I'm 99% certain it doesn't exist. If it does you show me.

So it was an unsubstantiated claim. Got it.

[KGdaBom]

Then in MIN:

Players get injured. There has never been any correlation to injuries per minute going up with more minutes.

What about your comment that I sound like Thibs? Are you able to provide any evidence that Thibs ever said anything similar to what I posted. Quit ducking the questions. I want some truth. I need the Truth. I can handle the truth.

Watch on YouTube

Minimus that was a waste of time. he said nothing in any way similar to what I was saying. I thought he might have been smarter than I thought, but you misled me 100%. You avoid the question I ask you regarding KAT's minutes because you know how ridiculous your idea that KAT should play way below the league average of minutes was. It's ok just to admit you messed up.

[KGdaBom]

I believe John Hollinger did some work on this, and he came to the conclusion that players become more likely to get injured once they pass a certain threshold of total minutes, and a threshold on minutes per game. In other words, there is some evidence for load management (and we will see a lot of that this year after Kawhi), with games off, and less minutes each game.

The human body can only recover a certain amount from the bangs and bruises between constant nba games. Minor injuries weaken the supporting structures in the body, make it harder for blood flow to reach injured parts of your body for healing, and sometimes force athletes to do activities in different ways which sometimes results in new injuries. His work is sometimes cited when they have discussions about shortening the season, too.

EDIT: I’m not comfortable with the clarity of my explanation, so let me give an example. Yes, you’re right, that there is only a slight increase in injuries from 5 mpg to 10 mpg, and even that small increase can be explained by simply more court time, same with 10 to 15, 15 to 20, etc. However, Hollinger saw a marked increase when players went from, say 34 to 38 (I can’t remember the specific number). At this area, they’ve crossed a threshold because their body is tired and beaten up, and more likely to get injured. Repeatedly going above this number makes things even worse, as the injuries add up and it gets harder and harder to heal.

So you're saying that Hollinger is saying that at the extreme limit of minutes there is a higher ratio of injuries per minute.

[Klomp]

I must be the only one who thinks that Naz should be getting as much playing time with the core as possible. Watching him play he has too much potential to be sent to the G league just to give guys who aren't committed here long term more minutes. What did giving Rose and Taj minutes do for the team thus season? They're both on different teams now. Gorg is under contract and is our vet, he should be given time if he's playing better than the new guys.if anything he showed that he developed a better shot from 3 so his value should go up. But I really think that we should have been trying to add some vets like Zach, and Carter and made a trade with Orlando to get one of their PF. (if they aren't retired)

In reality, Naz too is on a one-year deal since there are outs for the team each year.

Major difference between the one-year deals last year and this year:

Last year:
Luol Deng - 34
Anthony Tolliver - 34
Taj Gibson - 34
Jerryd Bayless - 30
Derrick Rose - 30

This year:
Shabazz Napier - 28
Treveon Graham - 25
Tyrone Wallace - 25
Jordan Bell - 24
Noah Vonleh - 23

Those expirings were also brought in by an entirely different front office. These guys were hand-picked by Rosas.

Since you're against playing guys on one-year deals, what do you propose we do at PG? 48 minutes of Point Wiggins? Point Okogie?