Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[JWizmentality]

So do you think if he said crime ridden instead, would that be offensive/racist? I've ehard crime infested used way before Trump even put his name in the primaries, and never once heard it equated to racist until now.

Let me ask you a question. I believe you had mentioned that are of Indian descent. I recently witnessed an encounter with a client executive I worked with. He was berating his personal assistant for apparently not getting him better seats on a flight and made the following comment "Because of that I had to sit between two smelly Indians. Don't you ever let me have to sit with those people again."

Was he being racist?

Obviously yes, but there's the clear words of smelly Indians and those people used here. I know Trump has said many ignorant things in the past that were clearly racist, the comments about mexicans for example. But in this context, saying crime infested, no I just dont see how thats racist. He didnt call out a race or ethnic group.

But what if they were smelly? If he had not mentioned them specifically, would he then not be racist?

[daoneandonly]

I think you should walk some precincts and preach! Tell them what you think about them in person

Do you think I'm wrong? Or is this something you think we should just not say out loud?

No - Trump is a racist and this is just more proof.

Saying you are simply an idiot or a complicit racist is something you can do online - doesn't work so well person to person. But, you don't seem to want to hear that message.

What about Omar's clearly anti Semitic views/tweets? Again, we can all agree Trump is disgraceful and has said many ignorant, hateful things, but trying to use crime infested as an example of that is just wrong. There's so many other examples, hell just from last week alone, but crime infested isnt one of them. Especially when you're talking about a city that is in fact, riddled with crime, such as Baltimore

[daoneandonly]

Let me ask you a question. I believe you had mentioned that are of Indian descent. I recently witnessed an encounter with a client executive I worked with. He was berating his personal assistant for apparently not getting him better seats on a flight and made the following comment "Because of that I had to sit between two smelly Indians. Don't you ever let me have to sit with those people again."

Was he being racist?

Obviously yes, but there's the clear words of smelly Indians and those people used here. I know Trump has said many ignorant things in the past that were clearly racist, the comments about mexicans for example. But in this context, saying crime infested, no I just dont see how thats racist. He didnt call out a race or ethnic group.

But what if they were smelly? If he had not mentioned them specifically, would he then not be racist?

if he didnt say Indians or those people, then how could we classify that as racist? Simply saying smelly isnt racist, but inserting the Indians and more so, especially those people. "Those people" is the hallmark beginning of a racist comment.

[doclinkin]

Do you think I'm wrong? Or is this something you think we should just not say out loud?

No - Trump is a racist and this is just more proof.

Saying you are simply an idiot or a complicit racist is something you can do online - doesn't work so well person to person. But, you don't seem to want to hear that message.

What about Omar's clearly anti Semitic views/tweets? Again, we can all agree Trump is disgraceful and has said many ignorant, hateful things, but trying to use crime infested as an example of that is just wrong. There's so many other examples, hell just from last week alone, but crime infested isnt one of them. Especially when you're talking about a city that is in fact, riddled with crime, such as Baltimore

Right, and why is it racist to say Haiti and El Salvador and countries in Africa are shxthole countries. They do shxt in holes in some places over there. He's just being observant.

[I_Like_Dirt]

New article in today's WSJ about M4A where they think Sanders/Warren have dug themselves a hole in saying no private insurance (against polling of Ds that don't want that).

I think that Sanders will double down on this at the debates and he will get outflanked. All the other candidates are beginning to hedge. That will be the final downfall of Sanders, IMO.

This is where Warren and Sanders are the same but so obviously different and where Warren sets herself apart as an option. Sanders is going to double down but he won't offer up any realistic alternatives. Warren, from what I've seen, has come out in favor of no/limited private insurance but is at least willing to be realistic about how to go about achieving it rather than simply yelling it into existence. She recognizes the issue but she's come out with a greater focus on antitrust, student loans, consumer protections, maternity leave, the environment, and a few other issues than she has on health care. Of course, health care hits from the media more because it's such an emotional issue and because Bernie is right there pushing it non-stop. Whether or not Warren would do well or not on any of those issues is entirely debatable but she hasn't made health care her focus, which strikes me as a sign of reasonableness on her part.

[daoneandonly]

No - Trump is a racist and this is just more proof.

Saying you are simply an idiot or a complicit racist is something you can do online - doesn't work so well person to person. But, you don't seem to want to hear that message.

What about Omar's clearly anti Semitic views/tweets? Again, we can all agree Trump is disgraceful and has said many ignorant, hateful things, but trying to use crime infested as an example of that is just wrong. There's so many other examples, hell just from last week alone, but crime infested isnt one of them. Especially when you're talking about a city that is in fact, riddled with crime, such as Baltimore

Right, and why is it racist to say Haiti and El Salvador and countries in Africa are shxthole countries. They do shxt in holes in some places over there. He's just being observant.

Again we're talking the context of the video pancake posted. it goe son and on about the many times Trump used the phrase crime infested and how the anchor declared it racist, thats what I'm disagreeing with. How is calling a place with a proven high crime rate crime infested, racist? it's not subjective.

[doclinkin]

What about ...

But this I will never understand. Republicans didn't seem to be paying attention in kindergarten when we were all taught "two wrongs don't make a right". I get it, you are deflecting attention away from a failing by your guy, but why use someone else's behavior to justify your own? "Well he did it too" doesn't exonerate you in a court of law. Doesn't even get past basic parenting.

Are you saying we are defining a new standards so at some point if trump rapes or murders someone you can excuse it if only you can find some democrat somewhere who once committed a similar crime?

It's infantile. Wrong is wrong.

[gtn130]

I think you should walk some precincts and preach! Tell them what you think about them in person

Do you think I'm wrong? Or is this something you think we should just not say out loud?

No - Trump is a racist and this is just more proof.

Saying you are simply an idiot or a complicit racist is something you can do online - doesn't work so well person to person. But, you don't seem to want to hear that message.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind lol. Remember that whole argument we had about Independent voters?

[daoneandonly]

What about ...

But this I will never understand. Republicans didn't seem to be paying attention in kindergarten when we were all taught "two wrongs don't make a right". I get it, you are deflecting attention away from a failing by your guy, but why use someone else's behavior to justify your own? "Well he did it too" doesn't exonerate you in a court of law. Doesn't even get past basic parenting.

Are you saying we are defining a new standards so at some point if trump rapes or murders someone you can excuse it if only you can find some democrat somewhere who once committed a similar crime?

It's infantile. Wrong is wrong.

No I'm saying talk about his comments about AOC, Mexicans, Obama, not crime infested because its not racist. etc. But Omar lost that right with her own racist tweets, wouldn't that be fair?

[pancakes3]

1) Trump is only targeting Baltimore because it's Rep Cummings' home district, and he's targeting Cummings because he's black, and speaking out against border patrol. There are plenty of white congresspeople who are critical of Trump policies, but Trump specifically targets minority congressmen in his tweets.

2) Infestations by definition, describe animals, insects specifically. Crime-infested might "roll off the tongue" but when used to describe humans, it's an intrinsically offensive phrasing.

3) Trump only uses "infested" to describe places with large black/brown populations. That was pointed out pretty clearly in the video. On top of that, out of the top 10 most violent crime cities in america, most only hear about the predominantly "black" ones like St. Louis, Detroit, and Baltimore. Nobody has ever characterized Stockton California, or Indianapolis or Milwaukee as "crime infested."

4) The content of Trump's tweet goes beyond just calling out Baltimore for crime, he goes on to say that "no human being would want to live there" which adds to the dehumanizing nature of his comments.

5) It's not even Cummings' job to "fix" crime in his district. He's a congressman. He represents the interests of his constituents in making laws in congress. He's not the mayor, he's not the police chief. Trump also insinuates that Cummings is embezzling pork dollars and willingly allowing his district to wallow in poverty and crime, which implies that other districts (read: white districts) with other leaders (read: white leaders) are *not* corrupt, and *well run*. It's reinforcing negative stereotypes, and pretty much throwing red meat to his base.

[JWizmentality]

Obviously yes, but there's the clear words of smelly Indians and those people used here. I know Trump has said many ignorant things in the past that were clearly racist, the comments about mexicans for example. But in this context, saying crime infested, no I just dont see how thats racist. He didnt call out a race or ethnic group.

But what if they were smelly? If he had not mentioned them specifically, would he then not be racist?

if he didnt say Indians or those people, then how could we classify that as racist? Simply saying smelly isnt racist, but inserting the Indians and more so, especially those people. "Those people" is the hallmark beginning of a racist comment.

Racist: "So what you're saying is...I just don't have to mention them by name?"

[JWizmentality]

What about ...

But this I will never understand. Republicans didn't seem to be paying attention in kindergarten when we were all taught "two wrongs don't make a right". I get it, you are deflecting attention away from a failing by your guy, but why use someone else's behavior to justify your own? "Well he did it too" doesn't exonerate you in a court of law. Doesn't even get past basic parenting.

Are you saying we are defining a new standards so at some point if trump rapes or murders someone you can excuse it if only you can find some democrat somewhere who once committed a similar crime?

It's infantile. Wrong is wrong.

No I'm saying talk about his comments about AOC, Mexicans, Obama, not crime infested because its not racist. etc. But Omar lost that right with her own racist tweets, wouldn't that be fair?

What tweets by Omar were racist? Please provide examples.

[daoneandonly]

But this I will never understand. Republicans didn't seem to be paying attention in kindergarten when we were all taught "two wrongs don't make a right". I get it, you are deflecting attention away from a failing by your guy, but why use someone else's behavior to justify your own? "Well he did it too" doesn't exonerate you in a court of law. Doesn't even get past basic parenting.

Are you saying we are defining a new standards so at some point if trump rapes or murders someone you can excuse it if only you can find some democrat somewhere who once committed a similar crime?

It's infantile. Wrong is wrong.

No I'm saying talk about his comments about AOC, Mexicans, Obama, not crime infested because its not racist. etc. But Omar lost that right with her own racist tweets, wouldn't that be fair?

What tweets by Omar were racist? Please provide examples.

How is calling Baltimore a crime infested city any more racist than tweeting ""It's all about the Benjamins baby" in regards to supporting Israel? She's had interviews at bookstores and others where she's talked rubbish as well.

[daoneandonly]

But what if they were smelly? If he had not mentioned them specifically, would he then not be racist?

if he didnt say Indians or those people, then how could we classify that as racist? Simply saying smelly isnt racist, but inserting the Indians and more so, especially those people. "Those people" is the hallmark beginning of a racist comment.

Racist: "So what you're saying is...I just don't have to mention them by name?"

I'm saying calling Baltimore crime infested is like calling the bloomin onion at Outback steakhouse unhealthy. It's a fact that can't be disputed.

[doclinkin]

if he didnt say Indians or those people, then how could we classify that as racist? Simply saying smelly isnt racist, but inserting the Indians and more so, especially those people. "Those people" is the hallmark beginning of a racist comment.

Racist: "So what you're saying is...I just don't have to mention them by name?"

I'm saying calling Baltimore crime infested is like calling the bloomin onion at Outback steakhouse unhealthy. It's a fact that can't be disputed.

Baltimore can be stricken with crime and Trump can still be calling it out because of his incipient racism. Both things can be true.

The irony is that he is successful in this case in making the narrative about his racism, and covering up real crimes in that district perpetuated by his own WHite House. Here he gets to shout out to his racist cronies while also kicking people while they are down.
He's using the struggle of an American city of which he is president to dismiss and deflect critique by a black representative who has asked for investigation into personal business related emails by his daughter and son in law. Specifically emails that are potentially related to violations of the Hatch act regarding Baltimore properties owned by his his Son-in-Law.

Kushner's company owns a number of section 8 housing projects in Baltimore that have been continually cited for code violations. It is absolutely part of Senator Cummings district and oversight. Kushner failed to divest himself of these holdings but in compromise decided he would recuse himself from any policy making or conversations about Section 8, etc. However there is no oversight of this since the White House is flat out refusing to cooperate on so many fronts.

Better to make it about this loud black man and call out crime in his district than to actually shine a spotlight on crime perpetuated by his slumlord son in law.

[dckingsfan]

Do you think I'm wrong? Or is this something you think we should just not say out loud?

No - Trump is a racist and this is just more proof.

Saying you are simply an idiot or a complicit racist is something you can do online - doesn't work so well person to person. But, you don't seem to want to hear that message.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind lol. Remember that whole argument we had about Independent voters?

Right - forgot. Leave things as they are...

[dckingsfan]

IMO, this country is irreparably broken. Both Government and Society. I think we overestimate it's ability to heal after Trump. Some bells can't be un-rung.

Cosign... those that approve of interracial marriages are way up. And yet how effective are the police and how safe you are with the police is incredibly divided by race. Let's face it, race remains the great unresolved issue.

And now we can add this to further divide us. Those that approve of marrying someone from the other party are way down.

Not going to get fixed anytime soon.

[JWizmentality]

No I'm saying talk about his comments about AOC, Mexicans, Obama, not crime infested because its not racist. etc. But Omar lost that right with her own racist tweets, wouldn't that be fair?

What tweets by Omar were racist? Please provide examples.

How is calling Baltimore a crime infested city any more racist than tweeting ""It's all about the Benjamins baby" in regards to supporting Israel? She's had interviews at bookstores and others where she's talked rubbish as well.

She was talking about money influencing Politics. Weak sauce, but I knw you subscribe to right wing propaganda. What else do you have? Give me examples of her calling out a specific group. Don't give bookstore nonsense and right wing lies. Show me proof.

[daoneandonly]

What tweets by Omar were racist? Please provide examples.

How is calling Baltimore a crime infested city any more racist than tweeting ""It's all about the Benjamins baby" in regards to supporting Israel? She's had interviews at bookstores and others where she's talked rubbish as well.

She was talking about money influencing Politics. Weak sauce, but I knw you subscribe to right wing propaganda. What else do you have? Give me examples of her calling out a specific group. Don't give bookstore nonsense and right wing lies. Show me proof.

Even people in her own party called her out for her non stop talk.

Nevertheless, its an opinion just like calling Baltimore crime infested is, except a key thing, stats prove Baltimore is one of the most dangerous cities in the country. She can't back up her points with any hard evidence such as murder rates, robberies, etc.

Baltimore is disgusting, and I'd venture to say most people on here dont nor wouldn't live there if they had a choice. So there's no talking point.

[payitforward]

I never check in here. Well... almost never. I want to commend my fellow fans here who have the stomach to do so & to oppose the disgusting crap visited on this poor country by Donald Trump & his cronies.

Donald Trump is the scum of the earth. He's a crook, he's a violator of women, he has no interest beyond his own wealth & his own skin. It's a shame he's alive. I can't wait to piss on his grave.