RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#12 2019-20

[iggymcfrack]

RPM is great and all but I don't think Towns is a winning player. It's just like AD. Fantastic stats, but it doesn't translate. Simmons isn't even in this conversation from my perspective. For me a young player would have to blow my mind for me to put them ahead of long established, consistently productive players. And separate of that I'd rather have Trae Young, Doncic, Fox, Hield and a couple other people before Simmons and I'm not even considering nominating those guys yet. So that shows you what I think about Ben Simmons. Earlier in the season I thought he was better than Pascal but looking back at it I think I was wrong. Simmons could still be better than the people I just mentioned but I think he's had too much hype now and I don't see him reaching his full potential.

Career on/off of +5.8 from ages 20-23 without really playing with starters who complement his game at all. He’s still at an age where he’s learning how to play at an elite level. Makes sense he should take another big step forward this year.

If you really want to go with an established guy though, Draymond’s your best bet by far. He was still a top 5 player in the playoffs last year while Westbrook was absolutely awful. Could argue he’s been the 2nd best player in the postseason overall the last 5 years behind LeBron.

Is Towns better than AD? AD had those extra seasons of 'learning how to play at an elite level' with a #2 as good as Jrue Holiday (who is great and perennially underrated) and still couldn't find any success. In basketball single players can have an inordinate impact on winning and AD and Towns don't do that from my perspective.

I definitely considered Draymond for my vote. I was choosing between Westbrook, Draymond, Kemba and Blake. I'm just not as down on Westbrook as you are. I feel like playing more off the ball will help him efficiency-wise.

Anthony Davis is fantastic. I think he’s the 4th best player in the NBA. You say he won nothing. I say the last season he played on a team that wasn’t half injured he led the Pelicans to 48 wins and a sweep of the Blazers. Pretty hard to hold failing to beat the Warriors against him.

[SkyHook]

Vote: Gobert
Nominate: Doncic

[Metallikid]

Career on/off of +5.8 from ages 20-23 without really playing with starters who complement his game at all. He’s still at an age where he’s learning how to play at an elite level. Makes sense he should take another big step forward this year.

If you really want to go with an established guy though, Draymond’s your best bet by far. He was still a top 5 player in the playoffs last year while Westbrook was absolutely awful. Could argue he’s been the 2nd best player in the postseason overall the last 5 years behind LeBron.

Is Towns better than AD? AD had those extra seasons of 'learning how to play at an elite level' with a #2 as good as Jrue Holiday (who is great and perennially underrated) and still couldn't find any success. In basketball single players can have an inordinate impact on winning and AD and Towns don't do that from my perspective.

I definitely considered Draymond for my vote. I was choosing between Westbrook, Draymond, Kemba and Blake. I'm just not as down on Westbrook as you are. I feel like playing more off the ball will help him efficiency-wise.

Anthony Davis is fantastic. I think he’s the 4th best player in the NBA. You say he won nothing. I say the last season he played on a team that wasn’t half injured he led the Pelicans to 48 wins and a sweep of the Blazers. Pretty hard to hold failing to beat the Warriors against him.

Would you say that this is the most important season of his career and if he doesn't post some real results that it should become part of his reputation?

Because I think even a neutral fan should feel that way at this point.

[iggymcfrack]

Is Towns better than AD? AD had those extra seasons of 'learning how to play at an elite level' with a #2 as good as Jrue Holiday (who is great and perennially underrated) and still couldn't find any success. In basketball single players can have an inordinate impact on winning and AD and Towns don't do that from my perspective.

I definitely considered Draymond for my vote. I was choosing between Westbrook, Draymond, Kemba and Blake. I'm just not as down on Westbrook as you are. I feel like playing more off the ball will help him efficiency-wise.

Anthony Davis is fantastic. I think he’s the 4th best player in the NBA. You say he won nothing. I say the last season he played on a team that wasn’t half injured he led the Pelicans to 48 wins and a sweep of the Blazers. Pretty hard to hold failing to beat the Warriors against him.

Would you say that this is the most important season of his career and if he doesn't post some real results that it should become part of his reputation?

Because I think even a neutral fan should feel that way at this point.

It’s the first year he has a real chance to win so I guess it’s fair to say it’s the most important season of his career, sure. If he and LeBron can both stay healthy I’d expect them to have a lot of success. I’m not gonna say that I’d weight one season over the others as some kind of big test just because he’s on a good team now though. LeBron struggled his first year with good teammates and that didn’t turn out to be any sort of harbinger for the rest of his career.

[Metallikid]

Anthony Davis is fantastic. I think he’s the 4th best player in the NBA. You say he won nothing. I say the last season he played on a team that wasn’t half injured he led the Pelicans to 48 wins and a sweep of the Blazers. Pretty hard to hold failing to beat the Warriors against him.

Would you say that this is the most important season of his career and if he doesn't post some real results that it should become part of his reputation?

Because I think even a neutral fan should feel that way at this point.

It’s the first year he has a real chance to win so I guess it’s fair to say it’s the most important season of his career, sure. If he and LeBron can both stay healthy I’d expect them to have a lot of success. I’m not gonna say that I’d weight one season over the others as some kind of big test just because he’s on a good team now though. LeBron struggled his first year with good teammates and that didn’t turn out to be any sort of harbinger for the rest of his career.

I am a Lakers fan #2 so believe me, I would love to see them do well. And of course, I would love to see them beat the Clippers.

[TheProfessor]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

[CptCrunch]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Draymond should be getting more love by now

[TheProfessor]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

Firstly, actually kinda like the Rockets. Secondly, Harden should have won the mvp over Westbrick (But yes I hate the rockets). Finally, In what way was Westbrook good last year? Like show me some evidence to show that Westbrook was good? Do you consider 65% from the line good? How about 29% from 3 that must be amazingly good? No it must be those 5 turnovers a game thats surely amazing. Or yes, the fact that a player that is godawful at shooting is going to be playing off ball to harden. That will surely make him a better player.
So before you start throwing your narratives at people, maybe take a second to realize that maybe some people are objective and think westbrook is awful because well westbrook was awful last year.

[jirrit]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

0 to do with Rockets

[Colbinii]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

The fact that you think people dont like Westbrook as the #12 player in the league because he is a rocket shows how disconnected you are with reality.

[iggymcfrack]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

The fact that you think people dont like Westbrook as the #12 player in the league because he is a rocket shows how disconnected you are with reality.

This x1000. Blinded homers of random teams that think everyone hates their team are the WORST.

[iggymcfrack]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

I probably rooted harder for the Rockets to beat the Warriors in 2018 than I did for any series since Dirk was going for his ring in 2011. Definitely not a Rockets hater. With that said:

Harden was not a top 2 MVP candidate in 2017. On/off of +3.3. LeBron was +17.3. Westbrook was +12.4. Westbrook also proved he was better than Harden in the playoffs that year eviscerating Harden when they were both on the floor.

However, a lot can happen in 2 years for an athleticism-heavy player entering his 30s. Since you seem to see everything through Rockets-colored glasses, remember how Dwight was a superstar in Orlando and then when he went to Houston he sucked? Remember how Melo was pretty good in New York and then when he went to Houston he sucked? Remember how Charles Barkley was elite in Philly and Phoenix and then when he went to Houston he sucked? Remember how Hakeem was a legend in Houston and then when he went to Toronto he sucked?

That’s what’s happening here. The bloom is off the rose. The thrill is gone. The fat lady has sung. The Westbrook of 2017 is never coming back. He probably fell off harder that anyone in the league the last 2 years. And you can have Cher sing the national anthem for every home game, but Westbrook’s still not gonna turn back time at 31. He wasn’t a top 30 player last year and he’s sure as hell not gonna be a top 30 player next to the highest usage, most ball-dominant player in the entire league. Remember how may problems LeBron and Wade had playing together the first year since they were both so ball-dominant and Wade wasn’t very good from outside? Well this is like that if Wade was already 4 years older when they got together. It’s a match made in hell. And your Rockets are going nowhere this year except maybe the 8 seed if they’re lucky.

[Colbinii]

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

The fact that you think people dont like Westbrook as the #12 player in the league because he is a rocket shows how disconnected you are with reality.

This x1000. Blinded homers of random teams that think everyone hates their team are the WORST.

It is hilarious because I have been on the Rockets bandwagon since 2018 and was one of the few PC Board posters raving about how good they are and how I enjoy the culture they have.

[iggymcfrack]

The fact that you think people dont like Westbrook as the #12 player in the league because he is a rocket shows how disconnected you are with reality.

This x1000. Blinded homers of random teams that think everyone hates their team are the WORST.

It is hilarious because I have been on the Rockets bandwagon since 2018 and was one of the few PC Board posters raving about how good they are and how I enjoy the culture they have.

Yeah, me too. From December of 2017 through the 2018 playoffs I said the Rockets were gonna win the championship so many times that my friends started to hate them. I was on the Rockets bandwagon a million percent. I still think that 2018 team is one of the 3 best teams in the history of the NBA. But Harden plus Russ this year is gonna be UUUUUUGGGGLY. They’re not as good as the Nuggets, not as good as the Warriors, not as good as the Blazers, not as good as the Spurs. If the Wolves can swing a Chris Paul trade, they won’t be as good as them either. I really think they’re in grave danger of missing the playoffs.

[leolozon]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

Or maybe he's just factually on the decline and was a top 2 player 3 years ago, but he was barely top 20 last year.

2017 : 31.6 points (#1) on .554 TS%
2018 : 25.4 points (#7) on .524 TS%
2019 : 22.9 points (#17) on .501 TS%, incredibly inefficient.

Some advanced?

RPM : 6.27 (9th) to 5.16 (10th) to 2.51 (42nd)
PER : 30.7 (1st) to 24.8 (11th) to 21.1 (35th)
VORP : 12.4 to 7.5 to 5.6

I don't think you watched last season. Former MVP. He isn't in his athletic prime anymore. He wasn't a top 10 player in the league last year in any shape or form. And putting him 12th next year shows how some people live in the past.

It's funny to see someone that irrational calling other people irrational.

[iggymcfrack]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

Or maybe he's just factually on the decline and was a top 3 player 3 years ago, but he was barely top 20 last year.

2017 : 31.6 points (#1) on .554 TS%
2018 : 25.4 points (#7) on .524 TS%
2019 : 22.9 points (#17) on .501 TS%, incredibly inefficient.

Some advanced?

RPM : 6.27 (9th) to 5.16 (10th) to 2.51 (42nd)
PER : 30.7 (1st) to 24.8 (11th) to 21.1 (35th)
VORP : 12.4 to 7.5 to 5.6

I don't think you watched last season. Former MVP. He isn't in his athletic prime anymore. He wasn't a top 10 player in the league last year in any shape or form. And putting him 12th next year show how some people live in the past.

It's funny to see someone that irrational calling other people irrational.

Honestly I’m SHOCKED to see him going this high. Usually even the people who overrate him only call him a Top 15-20 player. And this forum’s usually so smart. And the voting’s been so good up until now. Calling Westbrook the 12th best player in the league for the upcoming season is just off the wall ludicrous. Might as well pick Gordon Hayward. At least there’s a chance he’ll return to form. I’d actually rather have Hayward for the upcoming season honestly. His ceilings way higher. If the Rockets could trade Westbrook and a protected first for Hayward and Langford, I’d say that’s a fantastic trade and they should do it. Danny Ainge might be too smart though.

[KqWIN]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

The fact that you think people dont like Westbrook as the #12 player in the league because he is a rocket shows how disconnected you are with reality.

If the apparent argument against WB is that everybody hates the Rockets...what is the argument for him? What he did 3 seasons ago and that he's in his athletic prime at 31?

Yeah, there's a real disconnect here. WB is not someone who escapes criticism. His flaws are well known and discussed frequently. Perhaps more frequently than any player in the league. They don't include wearing a Rockets uniform

[wutevahung]

After watching last season, and especially last years playoffs. It is very surprising there are people that think westbrook is the 12th best player in the nba. Looks like the nba is lacking talent if thats all it takes to be top 12.

After watching last season, can't believe some people are so blinded by Rockets hate that they fail to acknowledge the the former MVP Westbrook in his athletic prime is not a top 10 player in the league, while arguing for Westbrook's MVP case over Harden only a few years ago. Looks like nba is lacking rational fans if thats all it takes to hate on Westbrook.

did you even watch last season? did you support him like this before he was traded to the Rockets?

I supported Russ's MVP over Harden 3 seasons ago, but that was 3 seasons ago, so it has nothing to do with last season, which should correlate more to how he performs this season.

But I guess when people disagree with any opinions nowadays it's just hating.

[Rastas]

Vote Simmons

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