Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs?

[WYO]

These guys fit ownership which is why they have had jobs for so long. They deserve to be fired, but that won't change anything until ownership changes. Overall it sucks to be a Bulls fan for the foreseeable future. Hopefully they luck into the #1 pick and a LeBron caliber kid because they've proven they have no ability to attract the type of talent it takes to win in the NBA.

[League Circles]

Would another 16 years help?

Not unless they start publicizing all trade offers that teams make and hear and show all 30 teams' draft boards and what constraints their owners place on them. We see a tiny snapshot of what GMs should be graded on.

Since that would never ever happen, does that mean you would give them infinity years?

If I were in a position to have to decide I'd know that information. JR knows what the draft board looks like every year, knows what trades we turned down and why, etc.

I'm guessing I'd probably have fired them by now if I was in charge, just because I think there have been too many mistakes since Rose was traded, but again I don't know the whole story. For all I know JR forced the FO to trade Rose, Butler and Niko, sign Wade, hire Hoiberg etc. But at the same time I don't think these were too egregious of mistakes, just their biggest impact ones.

On the flip side, I really like the Lauri and Carter pics, Otto trade and the Lavine deal is looking better for sure, and I'm actually pretty high on Boylen. This year is a big judgement year IMO.

[Am2626]

I selected all four choices because I could.

Ha ha my bad. Created this poll from my phone. It’s fixed to 1 option.

[Jcool0]

I’m very curious to see everyone’s thoughts on if they believe GarPax deserve to keep their jobs. Not whether they will but if they should.

Did you not get the answer you were looking for in the other 30 Gar/Pax threads that have been here over the last 6 months?

[Am2626]

I’m very curious to see everyone’s thoughts on if they believe GarPax deserve to keep their jobs. Not whether they will but if they should.

Did you not get the answer you were looking for in the other 30 Gar/Pax threads that have been here over the last 6 months?

I’m not really looking for any answers. There are obviously some people that still support both Gar and Paxson. Just interested to see what kind of support fans still have for them.

[Michael Jackson]

Paxson really put together a great offseason. Too bad he is still mediocre. Show him the door please.

[Ccwatercraft]

I like John but I would not miss car at all I think John would be fine if he had ownership that would give him less cash restrictions

[dice]

Gar is not a significant influence however much the narrative is pushed. He is and has never been the main decision maker. All he has done is be the spokesman for Paxson's bad decisions. it is like being Trump's spokesman....you get the blame. Only smart thing about Paxson is he hid behind Gar and came out whenever he felt like or when good things happened.

Getting rid of Paxson is the only way you structurally change this organization. He is the root cause of all the failures the Bulls have had the last 20 years. The day he is out of the Bulls organization is the day the Bulls will start the process of becoming a better organization.

He is a 'NBA dinosaur' decision maker who has blocked the Bulls from what they could have been. He is just there because of his connections with the Reinsdorfs.

let's see...

pluses:

-drafted hinrich at #7
-drafted gordon, got 5 solid years out of him, dumped him before his game went in the tank
-traded what ended up being a #21 pick for deng at #7 (could have had iguodala - went 9th)
-nocioni signing
-carney for sefolosha
-eddy curry trade
-noah over realgm pick hawes
-rose over beasley
-traded tyrus for 1st rounder
-asik acquisition (could have gotten beverley w/ one of the traded picks though)
-thabo traded for pick that turned into taj (over realgm pick dejuan blair)
-korver signing
-mirotic acquisition
-jimmy butler pick
-nate signing
-augustin signing
-dunleavy signing
-gasol signing
-dumped deng at right time
-arci signing
-WCJ


minuses:

-drafted mario austin at #36 - never played - could have had blake or pachulia
-traded 2 second rounders for bryce drew - potential players missed out on amir johnson, gortat, millsap
-traded aldridge for tyrus
-ben wallace signing
-pick relinquished in salmons dump turned into isaiah thomas
-boozer signing
-c.j. watson signing
-rip hamilton signing
-teague over crowder, draymond
-snell over dieng, plumlee, gobert when nazr was our backup C
-nurkic and harris for mcdermott
-inexplicably giving washed up hinrich a 2nd 2 year deal
-portis over nance
-wade signing
-for some reason throwing in a 2nd rounder (which turned into mitchell robinson) to acquire junk from OKC for taj and dougie
-overpaid felicio
-parker signing


i'd say the positives outweight the negatives. CLEARLY that was the case up to the jimmy butler pick

[Michael Jackson]

Here is a random thread from 2009.

All the comments for a decade ago still apply today

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=966273&start=40

You know what they say, nothing changes if nothing changes.


It’s a good read because you could cut and paste a lot of the replies into this thread.

[HoopsterJones]

Longest tenured FO without a NBA Finals appearance in the NBA.

Time to clean house.

[DuckIII]

I think Paxson is a pretty solid GM. I’d rather not fire him, but wouldn’t blink twice if it happened.

I think there’s enough evidence out there to suggest that Foreman isn’t competent and has some serious issues with interpersonal relationships. I want him gone.

[jacoby1us]

These two have shown no progression over the last decade, we have went through a handful of coaches and all-stars and have one mediocre ECF Playoff appearance to show for it. Someone other than the players and coaches should be removed from this organization. We need a change in our culture and it should start from the top of the hierarchy.

[musiqsoulchild]

I’m very curious to see everyone’s thoughts on if they believe GarPax deserve to keep their jobs. Not whether they will but if they should.

Did you not get the answer you were looking for in the other 30 Gar/Pax threads that have been here over the last 6 months?

I’m not really looking for any answers. There are obviously some people that still support both Gar and Paxson. Just interested to see what kind of support fans still have for them.

This has been rehashed to death. No one "supports them".

But if they are vilified as close to league worst - as is frequently the case here - its important to correct that inaccurate portrayal.

[Michael Jackson]

These two have shown no progression over the last decade, we have went through a handful of coaches and all-stars and have one mediocre ECF Playoff appearance to show for it. Someone other than the players and coaches should be removed from this organization. We need a change in our culture and it should start from the top of the hierarchy.

That’s why I posted that thread from 09. They have literally gotten nowhere.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

These two have shown no progression over the last decade, we have went through a handful of coaches and all-stars and have one mediocre ECF Playoff appearance to show for it. Someone other than the players and coaches should be removed from this organization. We need a change in our culture and it should start from the top of the hierarchy.

That’s why I posted that thread from 09. They have literally gotten nowhere.

They went to the ecf and had the best record in the NBA twice since that thread. How many teams can say that? How many teams have even had the same gm for a decade?

[jacoby1us]

Michael Jackson thanks for adding the throwback thread that STILL applies now. We have made no upward movement at all.

We have been spoon fed lie after lie about the plans for this team and we tend to believe deep down inside that the ownership/management care what fans want. They don’t.

They have shown us that all they care about is revenue on top of more revenue. This ASG for 2020 is really going to make their day once it happens.

With this current roster, we will barely compete for a playoff spot. If we did somehow make the playoffs it would be a disaster to watch them be dismantled in the first round.

[dougthonus]

I think if the Bulls fired GarPax in 2016, and a new GM took over in 2017 and made the exact same moves as GarPax that we'd be pretty excited about our new GM.

[Bandit King]

Garpax showed butler and rose the door who’s next?

[meekrab]

Garpax showed butler and rose the door who’s next?

Can't blame them for Rose, he was never the same after the ACL, his efficiency and defensive effectiveness went right in the dumpster.

More concerning, they clashed with Thibs for no reason when he had a locker room that loved playing for him then hired an empty suit rookie coach Hoiberg who couldn't command the respect of the veterans on the team and lost Butler, and then put on a clown show with Boylen doing 5 man hockey style line changes with his roster of bums. It's like they have no idea when a coaching staff and roster work well together or don't, aside from their issues acquiring talent.

[Michael Jackson]

These two have shown no progression over the last decade, we have went through a handful of coaches and all-stars and have one mediocre ECF Playoff appearance to show for it. Someone other than the players and coaches should be removed from this organization. We need a change in our culture and it should start from the top of the hierarchy.

That’s why I posted that thread from 09. They have literally gotten nowhere.

They went to the ecf and had the best record in the NBA twice since that thread. How many teams can say that? How many teams have even had the same gm for a decade?

So you are cool if the next decade looks just like this one? Indeed Paxson had some good moves and some bad luck. It isn't like he is just flat out awful or stupid. He isn't and he is mildly competent. He has had enough time though to prove that e isn't elite. He can't even lose well, his tanking experiment was a failure three years in a row. We can always argue a subtext of what ifs.. but with the facts we pretty much kinda see what results we are going to get from John. I can excuse a lot of things but I can't excuse the McBuckets draft, Fred hiring (still makes my blood boil just the thought of it), Signing Wade when you specifically wanted to tank, the way they let go of Thibs (that guy who gave them the best records you mentioned), the Deng situation (from not trading him at high value to ending like a car crash just a bad arc overall) These are some standouts since the last thread I found. Just more of the same. We know what Pax is. Middling. Thats fine in fact it is the definition of fine but I would hope for at least a swing at an elite GM. The Rose situation absolutely screwed him no doubt but the rest of his resume doesn't suggest "Great" GM... only OK GM