Left Off of Depleted Team USA: A Wakeup Call for LaVine?

bad knees · Post #1 » by **bad knees** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:46 pm

After all the opt-outs, the 15 man Team USA roster heads into training camp for the FIBA World Cup with only five guards - three PG's and two SG's. Kemba, Lowry and Fox are the Point Guards. Mitchell and Smart are the only two SG's. As all the big name players dropped out, the coaches - Popovich, Kerr, Lloyd Pierce and Jay Wright - chose to ask Smart to join the team, and asked Fox to move up from the Select team. Not a peep about Zach LaVine.

This has to be a wakeup call for Zach. This team desperately needs talent, especially scoring. Yet, rather than tabbing Zach, the coaches chose to add a defensive specialist in Smart and a young third string PG in Fox. I can't think of a stronger message about Zach not currently being a player who contributes to winning. Popovich and Kerr have spoken.

Zach needs to dig deep and significantly change his ways if he is to reach the goals that he has set for himself. And the Bulls will never be good unless he does.

https://www.usab.com/mens/national-team/roster.aspx

Proven_Winner · Post #2 » by **Proven_Winner** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:07 pm

I doubt it. It’s probably just preference all of these guys aren’t making the team some are just practice bodies. We don’t know what they’re looking for as guys go down. Also to add its pretty normal for role players to get a call. Taj and korver both went to camp.

But I do think he should use that to prove he can be versatile too.

cjbulls · Post #3 » by **cjbulls** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:15 pm

He was on the 2016 Team USA Select Team.

Any number of reasons for his lack of an invite, including the idea he already turned them down off the record. Doubt that Popovich said, "LaVine is not a winner" when they invited Andre Drummond, Tobias Harris, Bradley Beal, Julius Randle, etc.

sco · Post #4 » by **sco** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:20 pm

A blessing IMO - keep Zach safe from Team USA!

I am happy to contribute Dunn and Blakeney!

bad knees · Post #5 » by **bad knees** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:43 pm

Love your optimism but it feels like denial to me.

Why would Zach keep his declination quiet? He would want it known if he was selected, even if for some reason he had to say "no."

I especially love the idea that Team USA is waiting to bring in Zach as the big gun once "guys go down." Yes, they're setting him up to be the savior.

I can see no other reason why Zach is not there other than the fact that the coaches think that he is a lesser player than the ones they tabbed. They certainly have been asking around.

Here's an article suggesting that Lavine just flat out has not been asked - BP lobbying for it to happen.

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-bulls-forward-bobby-portis-233230659.html

Heck, he even got left off the Select Team this time around. And you can't say that it's because he is too old, since that team includes SG's Joe Harris (27) and Pat Connaughton (26). Zach is 24.

Dominator83 · Post #6 » by **Dominator83** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:56 pm

I actually think that Zach has gotten a little underrated at this point. The 2nd half of the season under Boylen he showed some significant improvement

PaKii94 · Post #7 » by **PaKii94** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:03 pm

yeah Lavine is definitely underrated.... but it might just be they want more roleplayers. Scorers can only go so far.

bad knees · Post #8 » by **bad knees** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:05 pm

PaKii94 wrote:yeah Lavine is definitely underrated.... but it might just be they want more roleplayers. Scorers can only go so far.

If he was a scorer who contributed to winning, do you think Pop and Kerr would have left him off?

Maybe it's not just LaVine who needs a wakeup call, but also the Bulls' fans.

PaKii94 · Post #9 » by **PaKii94** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:21 pm

bad knees wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:yeah Lavine is definitely underrated.... but it might just be they want more roleplayers. Scorers can only go so far.

If he was a scorer who contributed to winning, do you think Pop and Kerr would have left him off?

Maybe it's not just LaVine who needs a wakeup call, but also the Bulls' fans.

I mean that's what I meant. If all you do is score on a team full of scorers, your effect is marginalized. The team already has enough scorers as it was. The people added recently are role players and bring a different dynamic.

Also, I do think there is a favoritism bias on Team USA but that's another issue.

---

As far as a wake up call, I was one of the the alarms trying to wake people up about that during the season :lol:

but he did show me enough encouraging improvement near the tail end of the season that I am not going to write him off yet (like I've done with Dunn & blakeney lol)

Betta Bulleavit · Post #10 » by **Betta Bulleavit** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:38 pm

bad knees wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:yeah Lavine is definitely underrated.... but it might just be they want more roleplayers. Scorers can only go so far.

If he was a scorer who contributed to winning, do you think Pop and Kerr would have left him off?

Maybe it's not just LaVine who needs a wakeup call, but also the Bulls' fans.

Or perhaps us fans are just as woke as you are but just don’t buy the idea that Zach not getting an invite is somehow and indictment on the player that he is. I personally could care less that he didn’t get a Team USA invite. As long as he is focused on becoming a better player for us, that’s all that really matters as far as I’m concerned. The reason that so many of the megastars are declining to play for team USA is because it just isn’t as big of a deal as it used to be. These teams aren’t built like the dream teams used to be built. They are built like college teams, which improves the competitive balance of the competition and makes such teams easier to coach.

bearadonisdna · Post #11 » by **bearadonisdna** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:00 pm

Of those 5 guards I would say only kemba is better than Zach.

Thaddeus young got invited but was a pacers player last season. Besides just talent I wouldnt dismiss general politics and perception surrounding the bulls as factors into this weak ass team building.

Post #12 » by **kingkirk** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:15 pm

Zach isn't better than Fox, who plays a different position, and while I think he's comparable to Mitchell, if that's who they're taking as their young scoring guard, it's not wild to think they slotted in a position for a defensive guard like Smart.

This should be a message to Zach that he needs to becoming a more winning player, both in metrics and on the floor. He's never really been part of a team that did anything of note. Guys like that get overlooked.

Post #13 » by **fleet** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:29 pm

He doesn't seem like a guy that is leaving some game in the workout gym. He works. He does not look distracted in games. I'm sure he is woke. So he is what he is.

bearadonisdna · Post #14 » by **bearadonisdna** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:40 pm

Mark K wrote:Zach isn't better than Fox, who plays a different position, and while I think he's comparable to Mitchell, if that's who they're taking as their young scoring guard, it's not wild to think they slotted in a position for a defensive guard like Smart.

This should be a message to Zach that he needs to becoming a more winning player, both in metrics and on the floor. He's never really been part of a team that did anything of note. Guys like that get overlooked.

Imo Zach is clearly a better player than Fox.
Fox has an efg% of .497 and 17ppg.

As far as scoring they are in different tiers, and I know they play different positions but 1 of these stat lines is all star caliber the other isnt.

Betta Bulleavit · Post #15 » by **Betta Bulleavit** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:54 pm

Mark K wrote:Zach isn't better than Fox, who plays a different position, and while I think he's comparable to Mitchell, if that's who they're taking as their young scoring guard, it's not wild to think they slotted in a position for a defensive guard like Smart.

This should be a message to Zach that he needs to becoming a more winning player, both in metrics and on the floor. He's never really been part of a team that did anything of note. Guys like that get overlooked.

My question is this. What exactly is a winning player? Guys that play on winning teams? Sure. I get that. But how many examples have we seen of guys that were dubbed as “winners” when they were on great teams but later went into non winning situations only to become a shell of themselves. Kobe was a winner. But how much winning did he do when the teams around him were bad. Same with Wade. What about Ben Wallace? JR Smith was a decent contributor on some good Cavs teams. Does that make him a winner?

Now, I know that there are a handful of players that can single handedly lift a mediocre team to greatness. But generally speaking, being a winner has more to do with the team than any one individual. And in the case of Zach, he could definitely stand to do more to help his team win. But he’s been in some pretty jacked up situations that weren’t exactly conducive to winning. Hell, this dude really doesn’t know much else other than rebuilds. That’s just the hand that he’s been dealt.

Post #16 » by **kulaz3000** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 11:19 pm

Sure, if this could be used as motivation for him - great. But say, he was extended an invite, I really wouldn't want him to have accepted either, because this season is going to be so important, not in terms of playoffs, but in terms of changing the direction of the team towards a positive direction, and that means we need this team to be healthy. And with Zach being one of the key players on our team, I prefer him to minimize the risk of injury as much as possible.

SHO'NUFF · Post #17 » by **SHO'NUFF** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:07 am

I'm sure the Bulls don't want their best player (who's had a major injury not too long ago) play for team USA. I wouldn't be shocked if GarPax even let the USA coaching staff (& Lavine) know that beforehand. (Remember what happened to Paul George)

Let him get a full healthy season before he or anyone should consider him for Team USA. He's absolutely skilled enough...it has nothing to do with his talent imo. You don't need a be a great/good defender to play for team USA.

Post #18 » by **HomoSapien** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 1:57 am

I think team USA will regret the snub. LaVine can play and would help that team.

step · Post #19 » by **step** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 1:59 am

After all the opt-outs, the 15 man Team USA roster heads into training camp for the FIBA World Cup with only five guards

5 guards, 6 forwards, 4 centers. Almost a 5/5/5 split. Looks straight forward and pretty logical to me...

Proven_Winner · Post #20 » by **Proven_Winner** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 2:39 am

step wrote:
After all the opt-outs, the 15 man Team USA roster heads into training camp for the FIBA World Cup with only five guards

5 guards, 6 forwards, 4 centers. Almost a 5/5/5 split. Looks straight forward and pretty logical to me...

Not to mention it’s only select team and all the stars pulled away. Even McCollum mentioned that most stars know they’re making the team so why even play.

Side note do people think P.J. Tucker and Gordon Hayward are so great that LaVine and Otto didn’t deserve an invite? That’s basically what you’re saying trying to look at a select team invite as a player’s value to basketball overall.