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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#161 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:47 pm

Btw, Bol Bol made 52% of his 3's - better than Admiral Schoefield and General Skowcroft's combined percentages.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#162 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:59 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:I don't think they took Schofield over Bol. From what Tommy said, they knew who they wanted & traded down to where they were sure they'd be able to get him.

Like you, Ruz, I really don't see Schofield, not sure why they targeted him.

Only because you persist in being pigheaded about it :)

Admiral was shooting .418 on threes. On ~5 shots a game. Among the tops in the draft. With improvement in this category every year. The team is emphasizing spacing.

I'm not saying he will be great. I'm saying I see why they are choosing players like this. What they are thinking.

You mean that you persist in being pig-headed, right? Mistyped right? Why not pick a guy who does have a chance to "be great?"

Since Admiral's 3pt % is what stands out, it's obvious why they picked Schofield in that sense of the question. Why else?

My question was different. It was: why Schofield? Instead of, say, a guy who took almost twice as many 3 pt. attempts per 40 minutes & made them at a higher %?



Ah, if Bol is the one you are contrasting, refer to the fact that he b+tched about playing defense. Argued with his coach. And reports suggeested he was something of a diva with off court issues. Then watch any interview with Admiral and see what sort of character you are working with there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#163 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:29 pm

Ruzious wrote:Btw, Bol Bol made 52% of his 3's - better than Admiral Schoefield and General Skowcroft's combined percentages.


In nine games. Bol shot a total of 25 three point shots. He hit 44% in highschool.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#164 » by nate33 » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:33 pm

I don't have one shred of regret that we failed to pick Bol Bol. He may be talented, but I'm convinced he won't make it in this league because of his attitude, body type, and health.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#165 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:09 pm

nate33 wrote:I don't have one shred of regret that we failed to pick Bol Bol. He may be talented, but I'm convinced he won't make it in this league because of his attitude, body type, and health.

Hey, he fell to 44th (or something like that) in the draft. I'm guessing most NBA GM's agree with you.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#166 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 7, 2019 1:02 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Only because you persist in being pigheaded about it :)

Admiral was shooting .418 on threes. On ~5 shots a game. Among the tops in the draft. With improvement in this category every year. The team is emphasizing spacing.

I'm not saying he will be great. I'm saying I see why they are choosing players like this. What they are thinking.

You mean that you persist in being pig-headed, right? Mistyped right? Why not pick a guy who does have a chance to "be great?"

Since Admiral's 3pt % is what stands out, it's obvious why they picked Schofield in that sense of the question. Why else?

My question was different. It was: why Schofield? Instead of, say, a guy who took almost twice as many 3 pt. attempts per 40 minutes & made them at a higher %?

Ah, if Bol is the one you are contrasting, refer to the fact that he b+tched about playing defense. Argued with his coach. And reports suggeested he was something of a diva with off court issues. Then watch any interview with Admiral and see what sort of character you are working with there.

Nah, not Bol Bol. But, if he likes to argue he should definitely come here!

Not to the Wizards, I don't mean that -- I mean to this Board. He can argue to his heart's delight! :)

As to Schofield, there's little point in disputing over him. Lets wait until he sucks, & we can all dump on him. Or until he kills it, & we can all agree how smart it was of us (!) to trade into R2 & pick him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#167 » by gambitx777 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 1:15 am

payitforward wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I haven't give up on mo yet. Whiteside wasn't an effective NBA player till what 25-26.give the kid some time. he's only 22 and centers tend to be late bloomers more than most.

Tell that to Thomas Bryant.

What benefit did the team with Whiteside's rights when he was 22 get from having him?
That's a Hindsight is 2020 deal. Like they could have easily kept those guys and boom they blew up for them.im not saying mo is that guy but what if he becomes a solid center on a good deal and has real trade value or better yet resigns in a couple years on a cheap deal and then gets better. And if he doesn't we let him go and we are out next thing. Because we got him for nothing.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#168 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:26 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:After the Wizards cut three players and get their roster size down to 15 (they'll cut Booth, Phillip, and one of Robinson/McRae/Jones), they'll have about $5.2M in luxtax room.

I'm looking around to find any trades where the Wizards could take on up to $5.2M in salary in exchange for picks. The obvious trade partners are the over-the-luxtax teams: Miami, Detroit, Golden State, Houston and Portland.

We could either trade a big contract like Mahinmi or Miles and take back a bigger contract, by maximizing the Trade Exception allowance, or we could trade our $5M Satoransky TPE (we'd have to also trade or cut another player though).

After a brief glance, the best move I could come up with is CJ Miles to Miami for Meyers Leonard + cash + a 2022 2nd (worst of PHI/DEN). That's a pretty crappy pick though. I think it's a last resort trade we could make at the Trade Deadline, but I'd rather look for a better pick.

Any other ideas?

Booth doesn't count against the 15 I don't think. Still... same problem.

From http://www.basketballinsiders.com/washington-wizards-team-salary/, I have us at $125.9 for 13 guaranteed contracts. For whatever reason, I also assume they're keeping Robinson -- so $126.9 for 14. With McRae that'll be $128.5.

That leaves $4.1m under the tax -- $4.3 if it's Jones they keep instead of McRae. Your trade still works.

Is there a way to do the opposite, I wonder? Move Miles w/o taking anything back -- i.e. to make room to keep one more of the young players.

Or, how about Mahinmi to Portland for Bazemore & a R2 pick?
Miles to OKC for Roberson & a R2
Mahinmi to Detroit for Reggie Jackson & a R2
Miles to Dallas for Courtney Lee (?) & a R2
Mahinmi & Ish to Cleveland for Brandon Knight & a R2

Some serious hold-your-nose trades in that group of "possibilities" -- !!

That Miles to OKC for Roberson and a 2nd makes a lot of sense for both teams.

It saves OKC $2M in salary, which saves them like $6M in salary and luxtax fees. It gets OKC a reliable shooter to space the floor, and it gets us a younger wing who is a much better defender.

I'd like it even better if, instead of a 2nd, we could send them our 2020 2nd from New Orleans, and they'd send us their 2020 1st via Denver. If they prefer, we can also send them Bonga in the deal. They would only save $1M in salary instead of $2M, but by doing a 2 for 1, it keeps them from having to add another vet minimum guy to fill out their roster (they only have 13 now).

I think this team might actually be competent enough to win 35 games:
Guards: Beal, Ish, Brown, Isaiah
Forwards: Bertans, Roberson, Hachimura, Jones
Centers: Bryant, Mahinmi
Garbage time: Robinson, McRae, Schofield, Wagner

I'd like it so much better if we had acquired Vonleh instead of Ish:
Guards: Beal, Brown, Isaiah, McRae
Forwards: Bertans, Roberson, Hachimura, Jones
Centers: Bryant, Vonleh
Garbage time: Roberson, Schofield, Wagner, Mahinmi

That's a pretty good team! There's a lot of versatile players at both ends of the floor. Roberson and Vonleh really boost the defensive aptitude of the team, and the D is even better when you factor that Brown displaces Ish at PG. Roberson and Brown rebound well for their position to offset the sub-par rebounding at the PF position from Bertans and Hachimura. Everyone is young except for Isaiah. Vonleh, Bertans and Mahinmi all come off the books in a year giving us flexibility.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#169 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:50 pm

You bet -- better if we get back a R1 pick in the deal, but I can't see that as likely. OKC, like the Wizards, is rebuilding. I think they'd do the trade for the tax savings, but I doubt they'd give a R1.

Right off, I can't quite figure out @ how many steps up the ladder it would give us to have that R1 vs. the best R2 we could get from them.

I'm not as eager as you to trade Bonga, btw -- but maybe you suggested it as a way to facilitate turning the R2 pick into a R1 pick, in which case the question is still there: how much higher is that R1 vs. the R2?

A marginal plus in wins this year doesn't mean much to me. The younger we are the better, IMO.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#170 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:10 pm

payitforward wrote:Right off, I can't quite figure out @ how many steps up the ladder it would give us to have that R1 vs. the best R2 we could get from them.


Well, they're a pretty good team with Paul, SGA, Gallinari and Adams. I don't think they quite make the playoffs in the West, but they'll be better than Memphis, Phoenix, and all the non-playoff teams in the East. So their 2nd round pick is going to be in the #40-43 range, with a small chance of it being even worse if they surprise everyone and squeak into the playoffs.

The 1st round pick they'd be trading is Denver's, which is likely to be in the 26th-28th range. Denver is a pretty good bet to have the best record in the West.

The 2nd round pick we'd trade is the New Orleans pick, which is probably going to be in the 41-45 range.

So would you rather have the 41st and 43rd picks? Or would you rather trade them for the 27th pick?

payitforward wrote:I'm not as eager as you to trade Bonga, btw -- but maybe you suggested it as a way to facilitate turning the R2 pick into a R1 pick, in which case the question is still there: how much higher is that R1 vs. the R2?

A marginal plus in wins this year doesn't mean much to me. The younger we are the better, IMO.

I'm not feeling it with Bonga. He is too raw. Even if he eventually puts it all together, it will be after his rookie contract is up. Also, by trading him, we alleviate our roster log jam, allowing us to keep both McRae and Jones instead of cutting one of them.

Also, I don't think it's a good strategy to have 6 or 7 really raw players to develop at once. When you're talking about marginal players at the end of the roster, sometimes a few steady vets help more than longshot bets on multiple 19-20 year-olds. The vets keep you competitive longer into the season, and I think playing in competitive games helps develop talent more so than playing meaningless games.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#171 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:24 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Right off, I can't quite figure out @ how many steps up the ladder it would give us to have that R1 vs. the best R2 we could get from them.


Well, they're a pretty good team with Paul, SGA, Gallinari and Adams. I don't think they quite make the playoffs in the West, but they'll be better than Memphis, Phoenix, and all the non-playoff teams in the East. So their 2nd round pick is going to be in the #40-43 range, with a small chance of it being even worse if they surprise everyone and squeak into the playoffs.

The 1st round pick they'd be trading is Denver's, which is likely to be in the 26th-28th range. Denver is a pretty good bet to have the best record in the West.

The 2nd round pick we'd trade is the New Orleans pick, which is probably going to be in the 41-45 range.

So would you rather have the 41st and 43rd picks? Or would you rather trade them for the 27th pick?

payitforward wrote:I'm not as eager as you to trade Bonga, btw -- but maybe you suggested it as a way to facilitate turning the R2 pick into a R1 pick, in which case the question is still there: how much higher is that R1 vs. the R2?

A marginal plus in wins this year doesn't mean much to me. The younger we are the better, IMO.

I'm not feeling it with Bonga. He is too raw. Even if he eventually puts it all together, it will be after his rookie contract is up. Also, by trading him, we alleviate our roster log jam, allowing us to keep both McRae and Jones instead of cutting one of them.

Also, I don't think it's a good strategy to have 6 or 7 really raw players to develop at once. When you're talking about marginal players at the end of the roster, sometimes a few steady vets help more than longshot bets on multiple 19-20 year-olds. The vets keep you competitive longer into the season, and I think playing in competitive games helps develop talent more so than playing meaningless games.

Agreed on Bonga. I've said it a bunch of times - raw PG's take a long time to develop, and when you compound it with his inabiity to shoot at this stage of his career... not to mention we have another rookie PG on the roster. He may make it eventually as a useful NBA player - but not on his rookie contract. See Mudiay - who will likely be a huge bargain at some point - if not this season. Include Bonga in a 2 for 1 trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#172 » by DCZards » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:30 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm not feeling it with Bonga. He is too raw. Even if he eventually puts it all together, it will be after his rookie contract is up. Also, by trading him, we alleviate our roster log jam, allowing us to keep both McRae and Jones instead of cutting one of them.

Also, I don't think it's a good strategy to have 6 or 7 really raw players to develop at once. When you're talking about marginal players at the end of the roster, sometimes a few steady vets help more than longshot bets on multiple 19-20 year-olds. The vets keep you competitive longer into the season, and I think playing in competitive games helps develop talent more so than playing meaningless games.


Yes, Bonga is extremely raw. But I like his upside. His ballhandling, passing and court awareness are exceptionally good for a 19 year old. Plus he has the potential to be a very good and versatile defender.

I understand your argument that trading Bonga would make it easier to keep McRae, Jones or one of the other guys that might have to be let go if he isn’t traded. I also agree that it's really not a idea to have to develop several raw players at the same time. But I think Bonga is a keeper.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#173 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:54 pm

Goes w/o saying that every young player who hasn't shown it yet is a roll of the dice. & fair enough that you can have too many raw recruits!

But with general truths of this kind, it's never clear how they apply in a particular circumstance. & a lot depends on what you're looking for short-term anyway. To each his own, but in my case I really don't care whether we win 27 games next year or we win 34 games, or what. So a solid vet - esp. one on a 1-year contract - doesn't say much to me.

I care about rebuilding. Now, if I could say with any confidence who among the youngest of our players was the least likely to develop, then that would help obviously in deciding who to dispense with.

nate, you could be right about Bonga, you too Ruz. But Zards could also be right -- I can't see a single way to peak behind the curtain of time & come down on one side or the other. Hence, all thing being equal, I would always let a Jordan McRae go to keep a Bonga.

OTOH, you are talking about trading Bonga & getting an extra pick next year (presumably) in return, so maybe it's ok.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#174 » by dckingsfan » Fri Aug 9, 2019 2:35 pm

Interesting...

There is "internal belief" within the Miami Heat organization that they could get John Wall back to his previous All-Star level should they trade for the point guard as part of a package for Bradley Beal, according to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald.

Wall is likely to be out for this season as he recovers from an Achilles injury.

The Heat have been strongly linked with a trade for Beal should the Wizards decide to move on from the guard.

The Wizards are resisting trade offers for Beal amid a restructure of their front office.



https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255137/Heat-Believe-They-Can-Get-John-Wall-Back-To-All-Star-Level-In-Potential-Trade
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#175 » by nate33 » Fri Aug 9, 2019 3:52 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Interesting...

There is "internal belief" within the Miami Heat organization that they could get John Wall back to his previous All-Star level should they trade for the point guard as part of a package for Bradley Beal, according to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald.

Wall is likely to be out for this season as he recovers from an Achilles injury.

The Heat have been strongly linked with a trade for Beal should the Wizards decide to move on from the guard.

The Wizards are resisting trade offers for Beal amid a restructure of their front office.



https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255137/Heat-Believe-They-Can-Get-John-Wall-Back-To-All-Star-Level-In-Potential-Trade


Yeah, it's interesting that we're starting to hear that teams no longer consider John Wall to be literally dead. Maybe, just maybe, the guy still has a pulse and might actually still be good at basketball. As pcbothwel points out, we can expect to hear more talk like this as we approach the end of the season and all that free agency money has no where to go but to Danillo Gallinari and Kyle Lowry.

I really wish this notion of packaging Wall with Beal would stop, though. God, it's frustrating!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#176 » by dckingsfan » Fri Aug 9, 2019 4:10 pm

nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Interesting...

There is "internal belief" within the Miami Heat organization that they could get John Wall back to his previous All-Star level should they trade for the point guard as part of a package for Bradley Beal, according to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald.

Wall is likely to be out for this season as he recovers from an Achilles injury.

The Heat have been strongly linked with a trade for Beal should the Wizards decide to move on from the guard.

The Wizards are resisting trade offers for Beal amid a restructure of their front office.



https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255137/Heat-Believe-They-Can-Get-John-Wall-Back-To-All-Star-Level-In-Potential-Trade


Yeah, it's interesting that we're starting to hear that teams no longer consider John Wall to be literally dead. Maybe, just maybe, the guy still has a pulse and might actually still be good at basketball. As pcbothwel points out, we can expect to hear more talk like this as we approach the end of the season and all that free agency money has no where to go but to Danillo Gallinari and Kyle Lowry.

I really wish this notion of packaging Wall with Beal would stop, though.
God, it's frustrating!

Being pushed by Miami, their fans and their writers... they kind of feel that they would be "helping" the Wizards in their rebuild.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#177 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 9, 2019 4:19 pm

nate33 wrote:I really wish this notion of packaging Wall with Beal would stop, though. God, it's frustrating!


It's also tampering. I wish David Stern were alive to crush it. He would Joe Smith every team that flaunted these violations. Siphon away a few years of draft picks.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#178 » by gambitx777 » Fri Aug 9, 2019 11:01 pm

I think there might be a trade involving wall and Beal that's gets us somewhere close to what we need , young assets in rookie deals young players on adorable deals and a good trade chip vet or two while other teams take Miami's negative contracts for something . Idk it would be like. 4-5 team trade and Miami would have to well over pay! But if they want Beal badly enough that might be the price for a team with out draft picks. An over pay , personally I agree , don't use Beal to move wall. If you arnt also offering a good package drop the wall offer and stop wasting our time.
dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:


Yeah, it's interesting that we're starting to hear that teams no longer consider John Wall to be literally dead. Maybe, just maybe, the guy still has a pulse and might actually still be good at basketball. As pcbothwel points out, we can expect to hear more talk like this as we approach the end of the season and all that free agency money has no where to go but to Danillo Gallinari and Kyle Lowry.

I really wish this notion of packaging Wall with Beal would stop, though.
God, it's frustrating!

Being pushed by Miami, their fans and their writers... they kind of feel that they would be "helping" the Wizards in their rebuild.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#179 » by nate33 » Fri Aug 9, 2019 11:44 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I think there might be a trade involving wall and Beal that's gets us somewhere close to what we need , young assets in rookie deals young players on adorable deals and a good trade chip vet or two while other teams take Miami's negative contracts for something . Idk it would be like. 4-5 team trade and Miami would have to well over pay! But if they want Beal badly enough that might be the price for a team with out draft picks. An over pay , personally I agree , don't use Beal to move wall. If you arnt also offering a good package drop the wall offer and stop wasting our time.
dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Yeah, it's interesting that we're starting to hear that teams no longer consider John Wall to be literally dead. Maybe, just maybe, the guy still has a pulse and might actually still be good at basketball. As pcbothwel points out, we can expect to hear more talk like this as we approach the end of the season and all that free agency money has no where to go but to Danillo Gallinari and Kyle Lowry.

I really wish this notion of packaging Wall with Beal would stop, though.
God, it's frustrating!

Being pushed by Miami, their fans and their writers... they kind of feel that they would be "helping" the Wizards in their rebuild.


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If someone is willing to "overpay" for Beal + Wall, they would be willing to overpay even more for just Beal. I'll take the just Beal version.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#180 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:41 am

This is my breakdown on all the Miami Heat scuttlebutt that has been inundating the news cycle . I’ve been hearing it on here, on Twitter, podcasts, even on ESPN etc - and it’s always one-sided and coming from Miami’s people:

First of all, its very clear that Pat Riley actively covets John Wall. This isn’t a situation where they only want Beal and think Wall is trash or a throw-in.

Our own Candace Buckner went on a podcast with a Heat beatwriter , and the guy mentioned that Pat Riley sits at Heat home games with a tablet computer and was regularly seen intensely watching Timberwolves and Wizards games on the screen (this was from last fall, around when there were talks of Jimmy Butler demanding a trade and Washington was supposedly trying to find suitors for Wall’s contract)

Miami fans don’t want to hear it but there is a preponderance of evidence that they’ve been trying to acquire Wall for a while which I posted in that thread on GB

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1881492&start=60#p78090087

Riley always liked building his teams with tough aggressive guards who won’t take crap .. Magic, Starks, Hardaway, Gary Payton, Wade, Butler, Dragic, heck even Dion Waiters fits that mold. We saw them get involved in the Russell Westbrook talks, but Russ asked OKC to send him to Houston. If you look at the potentially available star guards who are left, John Wall fits Pat Riley’s type of player to a TEE.

The idea of packaging Beal to move Wall is a red herring, Miami knows the Wizards would never send Beal to them under any circumstance or even engage in such talks. No team would ever trade the rising crown jewel of their franchise to another team in their division , and have to face them 4x a year.

What the Heat are really saying is that they are willing to buy low on Wall. This is straight out of Pat Riley’s playbook. He did the same thing after Tim Hardaway missed a season due to knee injuries in GSW , the Heat acquired him for peanuts and resurrected him into an All-Star.

If the Wiz are smart, and I think this is how Tommy Sheppard is playing it, you commit to Beal wholeheartedly and tell him that he’s the franchise guy whether John is here or not. And when John gets healthy, you trade him on his OWN at his healthy value. You call up Miami and ask them what are you willing to give up for this player who you’ve been calling us about for years. The trade will probably be an exchange for some of their bad salary (which mostly expires in 2021) and maybe Wash throws in a 2025 protected first or something to grease the wheels. It will be nice for John to go to another team that really wants him. Then you continue in the direction of Beal + young guys and see if you what you can do with your capspace.

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