How on earth did James Harden not make an All NBA team in 2016?

1993Playoffs · Post #1 » by **1993Playoffs** » Mon Aug 5, 2019 11:36 pm

Wasn't he in his prime? I started watching HOU more in 2017, but the guy put 29/8/6 on 60% TS

how did lowry and klay make it over him?

Also i know each year is different but LeBron James in 2019 missed alot of games, had worse stats, no playoffs (harden made playoffs) yet still made 3rd team. Doesn't make much sense to me....

Cavsfansince84 · Post #2 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Mon Aug 5, 2019 11:57 pm

A lot of people thought he got snubbed that year but that was just the way the cookie crumbled. He was getting a lot of criticism for his defense and flopping that year also as I recall.

Post #3 » by **Fadeaway_J** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:03 am

The Rockets underachieved badly and there was a lot of negativity swirling around Harden and Dwight if I recall correctly.

Ainosterhaspie · Post #4 » by **Ainosterhaspie** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:12 am

Klay was probably the second biggest face of the 73 win Warriors. When a team wins that much, voters take notice.

Toronto won 56 games, Houston 41. That's probably why Lowry beat him out there.

Colbinii · Post #5 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:24 am

Fadeaway_J wrote:The Rockets underachieved badly and there was a lot of negativity swirling around Harden and Dwight if I recall correctly.

Yup. In hindsight most of the blame should be placed on Howard for wanting to be "The Guy" at that point in his career.

Essentially you had a team in 2015 which "overachieved", won 50 games (3.82 SRS) and they should have been able to build on that considering Howard was only 30 and key players like Ariza, Beverly and Brewer returning. Unfortunately Capela was replicating what Howard was giving you (Capela being 21 years old, Howard viewing himself as a superstar) and I can only suspect a major divide in the locker room taring the team apart.

There was no actual on-court reason for Harden to be anything less than 2nd team. People felt bad for Lillard not making an all-star in 2016 averaging 25/4/7, Lowry for leading the Raptors in a poor Eastern Conference to 56 wins and everyone and anyone balls deep into the Warriors.

No-more-rings · Post #6 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 1:19 am

That was one of his worst defensive seasons if I remember correctly, and his team underperformed. I mean he was still better than Lowry and Lillard imo, but voters care about results and while his numbers looked pretty I remember him setting a poor tone early in the season, and it felt like Rockets underachieved a bit.

Post #7 » by **penbeast0** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 1:25 am

Has he had better defensive seasons? He still looks like he doesn't care on that end when I watch him.

scrabbarista · Post #8 » by **scrabbarista** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:58 am

1993Playoffs wrote:Wasn't he in his prime? I started watching HOU more in 2017, but the guy put 29/8/6 on 60% TS how did lowry and klay make it over him?

Also i know each year is different but LeBron James in 2019 missed alot of games, had worse stats, no playoffs (harden made playoffs) yet still made 3rd team. Doesn't make much sense to me....

There was this video... and it went viral...

Don't get me started!

ardee · Post #9 » by **ardee** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 3:51 am

He was kind of overweight to start the season, didn't get into shape for a while. Numbers were there but he just didn't have as much impact as the previous year, defense was worst of his prime too.

HBK_Kliq_33 · Post #10 » by **HBK_Kliq_33** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:02 am

He was dating Kardashian and had Dwight Howard on his team, you are due to fail in life. He even said how he was miserable dating Kardashian. There is also rumors that him and Dwight didn't like each other. That was an off year for Harden standards because of those reasons (lack of focus).

RCM88x · Post #11 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:07 am

It was a weird year.

Dr Positivity · Post #12 » by **Dr Positivity** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:11 am

Catastrophic season compared to expectations so his leadership was blamed, and he did play worse than 2015 genuinely. The Raptors had less talent than the Rockets and won 15 more games mainly due to showing up every night, and some of that is credited to Lowry

Lost92Bricks · Post #13 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:41 am

Along with what every one else said, 2016 was one of the best guard seasons in NBA history. Thompson is the only guard I would say he deserved it over that year.

WarriorGM · Post #14 » by **WarriorGM** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 5:05 am

The Rockets were lucky to even make the playoffs that year; got in on the last day.

Also Harden didn't deserve All-NBA over Klay. The Warriors eliminating the Rockets in the first round even without Curry proved that.

clyde21 · Post #15 » by **clyde21** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:21 am

the Rockets dropped all the way to the 8th seed and he was playing zero defense

Sark · Post #16 » by **Sark** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:58 pm

Perfect example of why context matters, and why just looking at stats can lead to false conclusions.

cecilthesheep · Post #17 » by **cecilthesheep** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:30 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Has he had better defensive seasons? He still looks like he doesn't care on that end when I watch him.

He's not good, and his perimeter one-on-one defense certainly hasn't improved, but he's cleaned up his off-ball tracking from historically atrocious to just bad, and he's built himself into an above-average post defender who can handle switches.

Sublime187 · Post #18 » by **Sublime187** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:37 pm

People do not like the fact that not only is he garbage on defense, he doesn't even put any effort in.

Colbinii · Post #19 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 11:06 pm

cecilthesheep wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:Has he had better defensive seasons? He still looks like he doesn't care on that end when I watch him.

He's not good, and his perimeter one-on-one defense certainly hasn't improved, but he's cleaned up his off-ball tracking from historically atrocious to just bad, and he's built himself into an above-average post defender who can handle switches.

Harden certainly is more engaged when his man gets the ball now than he was in 2016. It's actually night and day.

scrabbarista · Post #20 » by **scrabbarista** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:24 am

1993Playoffs wrote:Wasn't he in his prime? I started watching HOU more in 2017, but the guy put 29/8/6 on 60% TS how did lowry and klay make it over him?

Also i know each year is different but LeBron James in 2019 missed alot of games, had worse stats, no playoffs (harden made playoffs) yet still made 3rd team. Doesn't make much sense to me....

One thing's for sure, you're right about the bolded.

I wish I could mass reply to this thread that Harden that season was the fourth player in history to average 29/6/7, after Oscar, MJ, and LeBron. In history. Ever.

Westbrook has done it since to become the fifth. Not putting Harden on at least the 2nd Team was a downright disgrace. The thread has given the "reasons" why, but the bottom line is that they aren't enough.

The real answer is that it was mostly that video of his defense that took on a life of its own. Harden played 3,125 minutes that season, but people watched a six minute video and twitter exploded for months and months about it. People are still talking about it like they actually watched him play, and I'm still smh...

Harden's defensive rpm was -0.98 and Lillard's was -3.16, but people are still talking about 2016 Harden like he was an all-time bad defender, because of a six minute video. Lillard made 2nd Team. Lillard's team won three more games, and Lillard didn't put up all-time numbers like Harden.

The answer to your question is one word: narrative.