ImageImageImage

Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season

Moderator: jbk1234

User avatar
gflem
Veteran
Posts: 2,704
And1: 152
Joined: Sep 11, 2004

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#121 » by gflem » Sat Aug 3, 2019 2:39 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Well, they'll sure try. Which players actually fit what Beilein wants to run is tbd.

If they don't quite get it, and we don't clear space; we'll see a lot of the old passing the ball around and nothing happening until someone forces up a contested shot.

Garland and Porter might just be good at that, but ... it's presumably not what we're shooting for.

I mean both Garland and KPJ are already iso threats so when the ball is moving they become even more lethal if defenders don't stay attached because of the movement. This will be esp true if Sexton is pushing the pace scoring better in the paint and still hitting long range shots at a 40% clip.I also see Windler as a more than capable ball mover and high IQ presence to help keep the offense moving and not get stifled.


Yep, that's what I hope to see too, but until we actually do ... it's hard to assume really anything.

This is where Belien (I am really going to have to learn to spell his name if I'm wrong) will have to prove his worth. We cant assume anything about this team. How will the young guys accept his system, share the ball, learn when to be aggressive/selfish and take the shot, and when to defer. How will they fit his system, and how will it fit them?
Will the returning players be willing to defer their shots if the new guys are open, or look to "get theirs" regardless of situation? In this regard I am really looking forward to see how this works. I cant remember ever having this type of situation with the Cavs, an unproven (in the NBA) rookie coach, a rebuild situation with a few proven NBA players and a bunch of young guys with some talent, all being asked to buy into a "system" that was successful in the college game.
It seems to be quite the experiment, not that I have any issue with this approach, but it will be very interesting to watch in unfold.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,735
And1: 21,104
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#122 » by jbk1234 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:04 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Richfield
Pro Prospect
Posts: 949
And1: 661
Joined: May 12, 2019

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#123 » by Richfield » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:13 am

Yes!!

Thank you jbk1234.

I wanted Cavs to get him out of college but it wasn't to be. Until now.

Not even sure how he'll fit in because I don't know what Beilein will do with him but I like the basketball player.

And our vet wingers now even more likely to be traded imo.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#124 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:26 am

Thornwell adds a solid defender for the backcourt that can be a glue guy with high bbiq.
that being said i cannot understand not bringing in a forward who can stay with and defend 3's and is strong enough to defend in the paint...I also am not surprised but pretty sick of them not bringing in a true developmental rim protector / rim runner. there were a few undrafted that were not pursued by this org.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,735
And1: 21,104
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#125 » by jbk1234 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:38 am

I'm a little meh on Thornwell tbh. He's pretty awful offensively.

I also think backup PF might have been a bigger need with all the guards we have.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Richfield
Pro Prospect
Posts: 949
And1: 661
Joined: May 12, 2019

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#126 » by Richfield » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:09 pm

Stillwater wrote:Thornwell adds a solid defender for the backcourt that can be a glue guy with high bbiq.
that being said i cannot understand not bringing in a forward who can stay with and defend 3's and is strong enough to defend in the paint...I also am not surprised but pretty sick of them not bringing in a true developmental rim protector / rim runner. there were a few undrafted that were not pursued by this org.


Perhaps the FA market wasn't as good of a place to look for these type of players as will be the trade market.

Feels like the Cavs still have some trades to make, so maybe the types you're referring to can still be pursued in the not so distant future.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#127 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:51 pm

Richfield wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Thornwell adds a solid defender for the backcourt that can be a glue guy with high bbiq.
that being said i cannot understand not bringing in a forward who can stay with and defend 3's and is strong enough to defend in the paint...I also am not surprised but pretty sick of them not bringing in a true developmental rim protector / rim runner. there were a few undrafted that were not pursued by this org.


Perhaps the FA market wasn't as good of a place to look for these type of players as will be the trade market.

Feels like the Cavs still have some trades to make, so maybe the types you're referring to can still be pursued in the not so distant future.

not for good value...you never overpay a specialist and in cavs situation you see why. TT is an offensive rebounding machine but was never going to be tradable with that payday.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
Richfield
Pro Prospect
Posts: 949
And1: 661
Joined: May 12, 2019

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#128 » by Richfield » Sun Aug 4, 2019 2:54 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Richfield wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Thornwell adds a solid defender for the backcourt that can be a glue guy with high bbiq.
that being said i cannot understand not bringing in a forward who can stay with and defend 3's and is strong enough to defend in the paint...I also am not surprised but pretty sick of them not bringing in a true developmental rim protector / rim runner. there were a few undrafted that were not pursued by this org.


Perhaps the FA market wasn't as good of a place to look for these type of players as will be the trade market.

Feels like the Cavs still have some trades to make, so maybe the types you're referring to can still be pursued in the not so distant future.

not for good value...you never overpay a specialist and in cavs situation you see why. TT is an offensive rebounding machine but was never going to be tradable with that payday.


If Cavs don't get good trade value for TT I have no problem with them paying him to play basketball for the Cavs this season and longer.

It looks like the Cavs will have a young and gunning squad this year (can't wait) and I think it was Revenged25 made the great point that an offensive rebound hungry player who knows how to play D and can run the floor could be applied to this situation and perhaps even enhance roster development to an extent. Besides the extra chances, he is not selfish. Doesn't need a lot of shots just easy gimmes. Maybe he's even more efficient in a system like this.

Add to that, I'm not sure Tristan has necessarily peaked as a ballplayer, he is not an old man or anything.

The contract might not be as bad as it seems.
Revenged25
Rookie
Posts: 1,215
And1: 357
Joined: Jun 05, 2018
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#129 » by Revenged25 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:15 pm

Richfield wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Richfield wrote:
Perhaps the FA market wasn't as good of a place to look for these type of players as will be the trade market.

Feels like the Cavs still have some trades to make, so maybe the types you're referring to can still be pursued in the not so distant future.

not for good value...you never overpay a specialist and in cavs situation you see why. TT is an offensive rebounding machine but was never going to be tradable with that payday.


If Cavs don't get good trade value for TT I have no problem with them paying him to play basketball for the Cavs this season and longer.

It looks like the Cavs will have a young and gunning squad this year (can't wait) and I think it was Revenged25 made the great point that an offensive rebound hungry player who knows how to play D and can run the floor could be applied to this situation and perhaps even enhance roster development to an extent. Besides the extra chances, he is not selfish. Doesn't need a lot of shots just easy gimmes. Maybe he's even more efficient in a system like this.

Add to that, I'm not sure Tristan has necessarily peaked as a ballplayer, he is not an old man or anything.

The contract might not be as bad as it seems.


If the Cavs don't trade Tristan AND they decide to bring him back, his contract will top out at about 11-13 mil range, same as Capela IMO. Even then I'd rather move on from Tristan long term and turn to the rotation of Nance/Zizic depending on opponent match-up.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#130 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:16 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Richfield wrote:
Stillwater wrote:not for good value...you never overpay a specialist and in cavs situation you see why. TT is an offensive rebounding machine but was never going to be tradable with that payday.


If Cavs don't get good trade value for TT I have no problem with them paying him to play basketball for the Cavs this season and longer.

It looks like the Cavs will have a young and gunning squad this year (can't wait) and I think it was Revenged25 made the great point that an offensive rebound hungry player who knows how to play D and can run the floor could be applied to this situation and perhaps even enhance roster development to an extent. Besides the extra chances, he is not selfish. Doesn't need a lot of shots just easy gimmes. Maybe he's even more efficient in a system like this.

Add to that, I'm not sure Tristan has necessarily peaked as a ballplayer, he is not an old man or anything.

The contract might not be as bad as it seems.


If the Cavs don't trade Tristan AND they decide to bring him back, his contract will top out at about 11-13 mil range, same as Capela IMO. Even then I'd rather move on from Tristan long term and turn to the rotation of Nance/Zizic depending on opponent match-up.

TT struggles to protect the rim against the big boys and that is his biggest downfall as a rim running rebounding big.He is overpaid for what he does do and the Cavs knew it when they were twisted to pay him in the Lebron era.
He does defend the perimeter well though to pair with his efficient rebounding and he has on the court value for CLE and for other teams, but nobody is trading for him AND sending back a decent player that doesn't have less on court impact with that contract.
They are better off just letting him walk unless a contender loses a key big to injury and gives up a ton of assets to patch the bleeding
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#131 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I'm a little meh on Thornwell tbh. He's pretty awful offensively.

I also think backup PF might have been a bigger need with all the guards we have.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

idk Thornwell is a pretty high iq offensive player but maybe lacks the nba level athleticism to play the style of bull in a china shop
style he employed at SC? He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities since college so he could carve a role here, but overall doesn't add up for team positional needs
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,735
And1: 21,104
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#132 » by jbk1234 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 5:37 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm a little meh on Thornwell tbh. He's pretty awful offensively.

I also think backup PF might have been a bigger need with all the guards we have.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

idk Thornwell is a pretty high iq offensive player but maybe lacks the nba level athleticism to play the style of bull in a china shop
style he employed at SC? He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities since college so he could carve a role here, but overall doesn't add up for team positional needs
According to the Clippers board he can't dribble or shoot. His advanced numbers are really, really bad on the offensive end.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#133 » by Stillwater » Sun Aug 4, 2019 7:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm a little meh on Thornwell tbh. He's pretty awful offensively.

I also think backup PF might have been a bigger need with all the guards we have.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

idk Thornwell is a pretty high iq offensive player but maybe lacks the nba level athleticism to play the style of bull in a china shop
style he employed at SC? He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities since college so he could carve a role here, but overall doesn't add up for team positional needs
According to the Clippers board he can't dribble or shoot. His advanced numbers are really, really bad on the offensive end.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I wonder are those comments on that board now that he is gone or legit complaints while he was playing for them?
I take it with a grain of salt , but my complaint is not with signing him rather not instead signing a different position
of greater need.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,201
And1: 1,637
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#134 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:07 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm a little meh on Thornwell tbh. He's pretty awful offensively.

I also think backup PF might have been a bigger need with all the guards we have.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

idk Thornwell is a pretty high iq offensive player but maybe lacks the nba level athleticism to play the style of bull in a china shop
style he employed at SC? He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities since college so he could carve a role here, but overall doesn't add up for team positional needs
According to the Clippers board he can't dribble or shoot. His advanced numbers are really, really bad on the offensive end.


Perhaps he's on the team to be happy riding the bench (something Nwaba wasn't ready to do) and make life hell for Sexton, Garland, and Porter Jr in practice?

otoh, Thornwell has some history as a decent 3pt shooter, but for some reason barely took any 3pt shots last year. So, maybe Beilein is interested in developing him in a 3&d role as a guy who can play next to Sexton or Garland and clean up their defensive mess.

Remember, we also tried to sign 30 year old Justin Holiday - another defensive player who unlike Thornwell had no problem hoisting 3's but struggles to shoot them at league average.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#135 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 5, 2019 7:12 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:idk Thornwell is a pretty high iq offensive player but maybe lacks the nba level athleticism to play the style of bull in a china shop
style he employed at SC? He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunities since college so he could carve a role here, but overall doesn't add up for team positional needs
According to the Clippers board he can't dribble or shoot. His advanced numbers are really, really bad on the offensive end.


Perhaps he's on the team to be happy riding the bench (something Nwaba wasn't ready to do) and make life hell for Sexton, Garland, and Porter Jr in practice?

otoh, Thornwell has some history as a decent 3pt shooter, but for some reason barely took any 3pt shots last year. So, maybe Beilein is interested in developing him in a 3&d role as a guy who can play next to Sexton or Garland and clean up their defensive mess.

Remember, we also tried to sign 30 year old Justin Holiday - another defensive player who unlike Thornwell had no problem hoisting 3's but struggles to shoot them at league average.

The last 2 signings of Macura and Thornwell definitely add defensive depth to the second unit and definitely add 3 point shooting esp in Macura's case. Thorwell is not the proto NBA athlete but his iq much like Macura's is elite...he can ball.
I think you could put Thorwell in a FVV type role on a contender and he would be just as impressive.
As far as that goes you could put JP Macura in a Clarkson role off the bench very easily and he happens to be better at sharing the basketball when you are not asking him to score.
I wonder how many of the late pickups are just for training camp and how many will actually stay on the roster. But given this is still early in the rebuild and many vets will be gone at the DL or next summer it is wise for them to be considering retaining some of these undervalued high iq players for long term depth.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
User avatar
Context
RealGM
Posts: 21,131
And1: 6,365
Joined: Jul 06, 2005
Location: not the circus!
 

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#136 » by Context » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:16 pm

Any news on Marquese Chriss?
“The kid can play,” Robinson said of Barrett“He goes at everybody strong. If he’s a rookie, and he’s doing that, I think he’ll have a great career ahead of him.”
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 36,735
And1: 21,104
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#137 » by jbk1234 » Fri Aug 9, 2019 6:36 pm

Context wrote:Any news on Marquese Chriss?


I would hope that experiment is over but who knows given how thin we are at PF.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,982
And1: 2,548
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#138 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 9, 2019 6:39 pm

Context wrote:Any news on Marquese Chriss?

He is FA and remains unsigned.
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
User avatar
Context
RealGM
Posts: 21,131
And1: 6,365
Joined: Jul 06, 2005
Location: not the circus!
 

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#139 » by Context » Fri Aug 9, 2019 6:39 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Context wrote:Any news on Marquese Chriss?


I would hope that experiment is over but who knows given how thin we are at PF.

I have him on my fantasy team- hoping he goes to china or finally displays his potential :lol:
“The kid can play,” Robinson said of Barrett“He goes at everybody strong. If he’s a rookie, and he’s doing that, I think he’ll have a great career ahead of him.”
User avatar
Context
RealGM
Posts: 21,131
And1: 6,365
Joined: Jul 06, 2005
Location: not the circus!
 

Re: Cavs 2019 off-season 

Post#140 » by Context » Fri Aug 9, 2019 6:40 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Context wrote:Any news on Marquese Chriss?

He is FA and remains unsigned.

usually we hear something but its been dead silence regarding him...
“The kid can play,” Robinson said of Barrett“He goes at everybody strong. If he’s a rookie, and he’s doing that, I think he’ll have a great career ahead of him.”

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers