What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe?

Pelly24 · Post #1 » by **Pelly24** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:26 am

I'm thinking LeBron became better than Kobe the 2007-2008 season, which ironically enough, was the year Kobe won MVP.

Before that LeBron was probably a top 6 or so player, maybe top 5, with the obvious upside to be the best.

What do you think was the year 'Bron became better than Kobe?

Odinn21 · Post #2 » by **Odinn21** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:41 am

In real life? Probably 2008-09.
In goat lists? Right after his 2nd ring in 2013.

Post #3 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:57 am

Pelly24 wrote:I'm thinking LeBron became better than Kobe the 2007-2008 season, which ironically enough, was the year Kobe won MVP.

Before that LeBron was probably a top 6 or so player, maybe top 5, with the obvious upside to be the best.

What do you think was the year 'Bron became better than Kobe?

LeBron took a big leap in '05-06 and another big leap in '08-09. From my perspective, the first leap puts him into debate with Kobe and the second ends the debate.

No-more-rings · Post #4 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:48 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I'm thinking LeBron became better than Kobe the 2007-2008 season, which ironically enough, was the year Kobe won MVP.

Before that LeBron was probably a top 6 or so player, maybe top 5, with the obvious upside to be the best.

What do you think was the year 'Bron became better than Kobe?

LeBron took a big leap in '05-06 and another big leap in '08-09. From my perspective, the first leap puts him into debate with Kobe and the second ends the debate.

I think the question is for careers, and no Lebron didn’t pass him for careers in 09.

Jiminy Glick · Post #5 » by **Jiminy Glick** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:14 am

How healthy was Shaq during the 98 and 99 playoffs? Because if he is healthy LeBron has a good chance of winning championships with him 1998-2004. Then obviously Wade won a championship with Shaq in 2006 so it could obviously go past 2004 in terms of championships. LeBron was clearly better than Kobe in his second year in the league.

The 1998 Bulls versus the 1998 Lakers with LeBron in replace of Kobe would be very interesting, I would favor the Lakers. That would be LeBron's second season in the league on Kobe's seasonal trajectory.

TroubleS0me · Post #6 » by **TroubleS0me** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:25 am

08-09 - As the best player in the NBA
12-13-- on the All time list

Ainosterhaspie · Post #7 » by **Ainosterhaspie** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:40 am

No-more-rings wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I'm thinking LeBron became better than Kobe the 2007-2008 season, which ironically enough, was the year Kobe won MVP.

Before that LeBron was probably a top 6 or so player, maybe top 5, with the obvious upside to be the best.

What do you think was the year 'Bron became better than Kobe?

LeBron took a big leap in '05-06 and another big leap in '08-09. From my perspective, the first leap puts him into debate with Kobe and the second ends the debate.

I think the question is for careers, and no Lebron didn’t pass him for careers in 09.

I think he's saying better player at the moment, not for career. Like without a doubt he was a better player in 2009 and has been since, even though he didn't pass him career wise for a few more years.

Post #8 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:57 am

No-more-rings wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I'm thinking LeBron became better than Kobe the 2007-2008 season, which ironically enough, was the year Kobe won MVP.

Before that LeBron was probably a top 6 or so player, maybe top 5, with the obvious upside to be the best.

What do you think was the year 'Bron became better than Kobe?

LeBron took a big leap in '05-06 and another big leap in '08-09. From my perspective, the first leap puts him into debate with Kobe and the second ends the debate.

I think the question is for careers, and no Lebron didn’t pass him for careers in 09.

Doesn't seem like that's what he's asking to me but I'm fine to speak to that as well.

For me personally, I believe LeBron's GOAT status moved past Kobe's after '11-12 (though it may have been '12-13).

Dupp · Post #9 » by **Dupp** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:56 am

Odinn21 wrote:In real life? Probably 2008-09.
In goat lists? Right after his 2nd ring in 2013.

This is also what I think

Amares · Post #10 » by **Amares** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:54 am

In 2009 it was clear LeBron is better player, in 2013 he surpassed him on all-time list.

KeithCozart · Post #11 » by **KeithCozart** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:56 am

It was 10 years ago when LeBron crushed every single argument over Kobe. Eye test clearly showed that he is playing at level Kobe never reached, talking strictly about basketball.

Legacy wise and all time lists, probably 2013.

LeBronBMT · Post #12 » by **LeBronBMT** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:14 am

In 2009. In 2008 Kobe was a bit better.

Bklynborn682 · Post #13 » by **Bklynborn682** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:24 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:How healthy was Shaq during the 98 and 99 playoffs? Because if he is healthy LeBron has a good chance of winning championships with him 1998-2004. Then obviously Wade won a championship with Shaq in 2006 so it could obviously go past 2004 in terms of championships. LeBron was clearly better than Kobe in his second year in the league.

The 1998 Bulls versus the 1998 Lakers with LeBron in replace of Kobe would be very interesting, I would favor the Lakers. That would be LeBron's second season in the league on Kobe's seasonal trajectory.

Not that it really matters but 98 shaq was as healthy as he’d been since 95 and 99 he had severe tendinitis in his knee and was probably the most injured he was during a playoff run other than maybe 96 or 97.

Gooner · Post #14 » by **Gooner** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:31 pm

Ainosterhaspie wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
LeBron took a big leap in '05-06 and another big leap in '08-09. From my perspective, the first leap puts him into debate with Kobe and the second ends the debate.

I think the question is for careers, and no Lebron didn’t pass him for careers in 09.

I think he's saying better player at the moment, not for career. Like without a doubt he was a better player in 2009 and has been since, even though he didn't pass him career wise for a few more years.

Kobe was the best player until his last title in 2010. LeBron had to prove himself as a winner, and we know what happened in 2011, so it took more time than everybody expected. Kobe was a 5 time champion at that point, so there was no debate at all. Atleast no real debate, but revisionist history is a common method by LeBron fans.

Gooner · Post #15 » by **Gooner** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:33 pm

KeithCozart wrote:It was 10 years ago when LeBron crushed every single argument over Kobe. Eye test clearly showed that he is playing at level Kobe never reached, talking strictly about basketball.

Legacy wise and all time lists, probably 2013.

Maybe on your all time list, but outside of this forum most people would put Kobe ahead of LeBron. Especially the NBA players who played against both. Winning matters. Excuses for 6 finals losses don't matter. People here are obsessed with stats, and they know less basketball than those fans that they call "casual".

No-more-rings · Post #16 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:47 pm

He passed Kobe’s peak in 09, for careers i would say either 2013 or 14.

Sublime187 · Post #17 » by **Sublime187** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:54 pm

Gooner wrote:
KeithCozart wrote:It was 10 years ago when LeBron crushed every single argument over Kobe. Eye test clearly showed that he is playing at level Kobe never reached, talking strictly about basketball.

Legacy wise and all time lists, probably 2013.

Maybe on your all time list, but outside of this forum most people would put Kobe ahead of LeBron. Especially the NBA players who played against both. Winning matters. Excuses for 6 finals losses don't matter. People here are obsessed with stats, and they know less basketball than those fans that they call "casual".

Oh you mean the general public that puts a guy like Iverson over Duncan? Or a guy like Tracy McGrady over Kevin Garnett? Yes, great sources you got there.

Why don't you go those forums that agree with you so much then? That is what people like you are fond of.

Gooner · Post #18 » by **Gooner** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:11 pm

Sublime187 wrote:
Gooner wrote:
KeithCozart wrote:It was 10 years ago when LeBron crushed every single argument over Kobe. Eye test clearly showed that he is playing at level Kobe never reached, talking strictly about basketball.

Legacy wise and all time lists, probably 2013.

Maybe on your all time list, but outside of this forum most people would put Kobe ahead of LeBron. Especially the NBA players who played against both. Winning matters. Excuses for 6 finals losses don't matter. People here are obsessed with stats, and they know less basketball than those fans that they call "casual".

Oh you mean the general public that puts a guy like Iverson over Duncan? Or a guy like Tracy McGrady over Kevin Garnett? Yes, great sources you got there.

Why don't you go those forums that agree with you so much then? That is what people like you are fond of.

I'm not someone who seeks agreement or approval from others. For me being on this forum is like an experiment. I just like to confront fans with truth, and see how they react. I don't take it too seriosly.

I also doubt that most of the people would take Iverson over Duncan, from a career standpoint. Kobe is not Iverson, he won 5 titles, so there is legitimacy to his argument, and there are many of those who rightfully put him ahead fo LeBron, including NBA players. You guys here don't have more or less legitimacy than those "casual" fans, and you certianly don't have more legitimacy than NBA players.

Colbinii · Post #19 » by **Colbinii** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:23 pm

Gooner wrote: you certianly don't have more legitimacy than NBA players.

This is wrong. Most people here have analyzed and watched careers of NBA greats far more than a majority of NBA players.

For me LeBron peaked higher than Kobe in the playoffs during his 2007 game 5 against the Pistons and that was the time where I thought "Wow, his guy can actually challenge Jordan, something Kobe never actually did."

2008 for me was a big debate as LeBron was better against the Celtics than Kobe was.

2009 was the nail in the coffin for me.

FWIW I analyze players based on what they do on the court and not who they have as teammates.

Pelly24 · Post #20 » by **Pelly24** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Gooner wrote: you certianly don't have more legitimacy than NBA players.

This is wrong. Most people here have analyzed and watched careers of NBA greats far more than a majority of NBA players.

For me LeBron peaked higher than Kobe in the playoffs during his 2007 game 5 against the Pistons and that was the time where I thought "Wow, his guy can actually challenge Jordan, something Kobe never actually did."

2008 for me was a big debate as LeBron was better against the Celtics than Kobe was.

2009 was the nail in the coffin for me.

FWIW I analyze players based on what they do on the court and not who they have as teammates.

Yeah for me it was the 2007 pistons series that made me realize LeBron would for sure be better if he wasn't already. Kobe was my favorite player up until that time.