Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?

[XxIronChainzxX]

I like him for where he is now in his career. I would give him a top ten but top five all time from the active point guards is really close. I don't think he is outside the top 6 or 7. Secondly, I would not trade any of the young upcoming point guards for him now. Example, I will keep Trae Young for the next ten years vs Lowry for the next two to four easily.

Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.

Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.

Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

That's IMO just a bit better than Billups, who's a bubble guy for the HOF himself.

[Buzzard]

Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.

Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.

Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

Doing if, and, this, or else will make you crazy. If things are not looking great by the trade deadline, send him to a contender. If he wins a 2nd Championship with another team, his chances of the HOF will increase exponentially.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.

Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

Doing if, and, this, or else will make you crazy. If things are not looking great by the trade deadline, send him to a contender. If he wins a 2nd Championship with another team, his chances of the HOF will increase exponentially.

I'm not a fan of blowing it up - and that isn't even how the Raptors won this title. I think Masai keeps a lookout for improving the team subject to what Kyle wants. If the Raptors are on pace for 50 wins everyone stays.

That said I'm not saying this as a hypothetical - I think KL has achived everything I say in my post but isn't getting the credit for it.

[The_Hater]

Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.

Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.

Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

That's IMO just a bit better than Billups, who's a bubble guy for the HOF himself.

I don’t disagree with any of this, but if he had played at a higher level earlier in his career so that he had a longer peak I think his respect with average fans and his HOF resume would be much higher as well. Probably a no-brainer.

As a Raptor fan, we traded what became the 12th pick in the draft for Lowry and I remember being livid about the deal because he was a fringe starter and the Raps were rebuilding.

[Prokorov]

Lowry's playoff on/off in TOR:
2014: +10.4
2015: +15.4
2016: +24.8
2017: +8.9
2018: +2.4
2019: +11.9

He did that despite playing the bulk of his minutes with DD, who put up the following:
2014: -6.6
2015: -7.9
2016: -4.8
2017: -13.1
2018: -19.9
2019 (SAS): -25.8

The data is really straight forward if you know where to look. Lowry was never the problem.

we have already gone over time and time gain why context-less on/off is completely useless

It's not useless at all, and to suggest that it is implies you don't have a solid grasp of the stat. The "context" comes from a basic understanding of the roster, which I assume all of us posting on an NBA message board have.

kind of like how you said RHJ and Napier where key contributors last year because of their on/off and will be missed despite neihter being part of the rotation and only playing scrub/garbage time and having 0 positive impact?

[GeorgeMarcus]

we have already gone over time and time gain why context-less on/off is completely useless

It's not useless at all, and to suggest that it is implies you don't have a solid grasp of the stat. The "context" comes from a basic understanding of the roster, which I assume all of us posting on an NBA message board have.

kind of like how you said RHJ and Napier where key contributors last year because of their on/off and will be missed despite neihter being part of the rotation and only playing scrub/garbage time and having 0 positive impact?

I never said RHJ/Napier were key contributors Go 'head, the advanced post search is your friend. That was an argument put in my mouth by those unwilling to accept reality.

And for the record, posting an entire team's on/off with a minutes qualifier *is* context.

[Rockice_24]

What an absolutely terrible post.

Calvin Murphy, KC Jones and Bill Bradley are in the HOF among others, take 5 minutes and go look at the career stats and accolades for each of those players.

HAHAHAHA

Please stop comparing guys who played in 1932 to guys playing now. Equally terrible analogy.

Calvin Murphy was a fringe HOF player but was still an efficient scorer for the 80's and Bill Bradley should never have made the Hall equally as bad that he is in if Lowery should go in. Perfect comparison there.

Thanks for proving my point. Lowery is on the same level as undeserving HOF players.

14ppg on 42% shooting career averages in a scoring era. Hard pass.

Again scrappy player did the little things but you don't make the hall taking charges.

You completely missed the point. Well done.

Not to mention that a minimal research would have told you that the 1960’s and 1970’s were a much higher scoring era that than the 2010’s. So spewing incorrect facts to form a poor opinion doesn’t make you the winner of this debate.

Then you did a terrible job explaining it. You said look at the career stats of unworthy HOF players to make your point and please don't point to all star games as a reason why he deserves to make it.

How about you use a relevant/recent example to try and make your point that way we won't have to discuss an era of basketball that likely none of us were alive to watch.

[Rastas]

Somewhere between 40 and 50 for this coming season as a player.
Lower if including his contract .

Sent from my A5 using RealGM mobile app

[hot_sauce_and1]

Current pg ranking? I'd easliy put Kyle Lowry in the top 10. There's an argument to be made that hes top 5 today if we are arguing current pgs in todays league. Me, possibly with a biased opinion being a hornets fan, I would put Kemba Walker ahead of him, among current pgs. Kemba doesn't have a ring like Kyle does, but I just think Kemba has so much talent. So does Kyle tho. Current pgs? Id say Kyle is definitely in the top 10.

[rapscity]

Put some respek on the champs name. Theres only a couple pgs better than lowry in this league.

[RaptorPride]

Watch on YouTube

[Roddy B for 3]

I have him at #10 or #11. Could be lower if both Houston guys are PG's LBJ is a PG or if Luka plays PG.

Steph
Westbrook
Walker
Simmons
Fox
Conley
CP3
Lillard
Jure
Brogdan
Morant

Are all guys I think will be above or at a similar level to Lowry.

[iggymcfrack]

I have him at #10 or #11. Could be lower if both Houston guys are PG's LBJ is a PG or if Luka plays PG.

Steph
Westbrook
Walker
Simmons
Fox
Conley
CP3
Lillard
Jure
Brogdan
Morant

Are all guys I think will be above or at a similar level to Lowry.

Good to know that you’ve just been trolling this whole time. Now I don’t have to worry about responding to you any more.

[Roddy B for 3]

I have him at #10 or #11. Could be lower if both Houston guys are PG's LBJ is a PG or if Luka plays PG.

Steph
Westbrook
Walker
Simmons
Fox
Conley
CP3
Lillard
Jure
Brogdan
Morant

Are all guys I think will be above or at a similar level to Lowry.

Good to know that you’ve just been trolling this whole time. Now I don’t have to worry about responding to you any more.

That's fine.

[RaptorPride]

If C is the position where defense is the most important then PG is the least important. Lowry is an excellent floor general but 14ppg in this era of deadly scoring PGs? For the most part every other PG mentioned other than Simmons is north of 20ppg and Lowry got his 14 shooting 41% overall. Yuck. This is a big year for those saying Lowry is better than top-10. If Siakam isn't quite ready to step up as the team's marquee scorer it'll be interesting to see where the Raps get enough points to be a playoff team. Can Lowry manufacture enough good shots for his teammates to be a good team?

Yes he can

[RaptorPride]

Where does he rank right now?

Watch on YouTube

;t

Watch on YouTube

[ThumbsUpBaby]

Initially, I said top 15 PG. Minus that by 10. Top 5.

[fbalmeida]

Taking present injuries into account he's the 3rd best point-guard in the league right now, behind Doncic and Lillard.

Putting injuries aside, beyond Doncic, Lillard, a healthy Curry, or a lobotomized Irving, there isn't a single point-guard in the league I'd want to run the floor for my team other than Kyle Terrell Lowry.

Obviously top 5. If you disagree, you're simply not paying enough attention, or you value highlights over winning.

[nikster]

I'm not a big fan of guards that can't create off the dribble and aren't dynamite from 3. Plus he doesn't have the quickest release. Top 30 for me, probably in the 22-23 range

Not dynamite from 3? Hes top 10 in 3s made for the decade, last 5 years hes averaging 7.5 attempts per game on 38.2% which is elite for someone who takes so few shots from the corner and creates a large amount of his own 3s

[nikster]

I have him at #10 or #11. Could be lower if both Houston guys are PG's LBJ is a PG or if Luka plays PG.

Steph
Westbrook
Walker
Simmons
Fox
Conley
CP3
Lillard
Jure
Brogdan
Morant

Are all guys I think will be above or at a similar level to Lowry.

Fox, Conley, Brogdon and Morant above Lowry is a joke. He literally does everything better than these guys. This season he Scores more efficiently on higher volume (similar volume to Fox), is both the best playmaker and defender of the group and is on the best team

Disagree with Walker, Jrue, and Cp3 (this year) ahead of him too but those are at least reasonable