Which "Ringless" All-time Great had the worst luck?

[JoeMalburg]

Thinking about Charles Barkley and the bad breaks he and his team caught in 1993, 1994, 1995 and 1997 calls to mind a tired sports talk radio question, but one I haven't seen discussed here by the very knowledgeable basketball community that occupies this board.

Which All-Time Great player has the best case for "bad luck" costing them a Championship?

[CodeBreaker]

DeMarcus Cousins

[wojoaderge]

Elgin Baylor

[No-more-rings]

Looking at that list, Nash is a tough one for me. He had a great offensive coach who helped unveil Nash’s potential, but he also is one that didn’t give an F about defense at that time. He had a coach and big man that didn’t give a sh*t about defense, then the injuries/suspensions thing, and just like how guys went against the Bulls or Warriors dynasty, going against a prime Duncan all the time isn’t easy. Ask Dirk, the one time he beat them it took a game 7 with everything he had. Some of the guys on there weren’t good enough anyway so I couldn’t care less about their luck(Wilkins, Gervin, Webber, Miller).

Edit: Just double checked and the Mavs also beat the Spurs in 09, but those Spurs from like 09-11 were a clear cut below the ones from like 03-07 and Duncan clearly lost something by then. And even so, they were quickly stopped in the next round.

[studcrackers]

probably elgin baylor

[Senior]

it's gotta be elgin. lost to russell's celtics 7 times (59, 62, 63, 65 [didn't play], 66, 68, 69), 3 of which went to game 7, decided by 3, 2, and 2 points. lost another game 7 to the knicks. then he retired literally the season the lakers won it all. had a brutal knee injury in 65 and wasn't ever the same too.

[liamliam1234]

Chris Paul should be on this list. And probably also McGrady.

Not a lot of sympathy for Baylor failing to win as a second option / inefficient first option.

I have a fair amount of sympathy for Reggie continually coming up just short of the Bulls (to say nothing of the whole “Malice” debacle)... but plenty of other ringless players were better.

Chris Paul had the worst personal injury luck. Steve Nash had the worst, for lack of a better word, “institutional” luck. Barkley was a decent mixture of both.

KMalone is the least plausible ringless great, given his full career value, but a lot of that was his own fault (that said, the below idea that Stockton was some playoff killer held back by KMalone is absolutely laughable).

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I would say John Stockton because he was clutch but stuck with a clumsy choker like Karl Malone.

[JoeMalburg]

Not a lot of sympathy for Baylor failing to win as a second option / inefficient first option.

Baylor was only inefficient as primary option by modern standards. For the first five years of his career, when he was the clear #1 guy on the Lakers he was consistently above the league average from the field and the line and got to the line more than all but a small handful of players.

In the second phase of his career, especially after the injuries, he was an inefficient scorer by any measure.

[Lost92Bricks]

Of course CP3 isn't on this list.

6 years of his prime either he or Blake Griffin/David West had a season ending injury.

2018 - Injures his hamstring after going up 3-2 on the Warriors in the WCF.

2017 - Blake season ending injury in the playoffs against Utah.

2016 - Blake and CP season ending injuries in the SAME PLAYOFF GAME.

2013 - Blake season ending injury in the playoffs against Memphis.

2011 - David West season ending ACL injury right before the playoffs.

2010 - CP runs into cameraman, tears his meniscus and misses half the season. Hornets miss the playoffs.

Thats 6 different seasons in his prime where his team had a devastating injury.

And that's not even factoring other BS like the league rescinding his trade to the Lakers.

[Colbinii]

Where is Chris Paul?

2008 - Game 7 puts up 18/8/14 with 5 steals and Peja/Mo Pete/Pargo combine 11/35 (4/15 from deep) losing to the Spurs.

Trash teams in 2010 and 2011

2012 - Chauncey Billups out for season

2013 - Griffin gets injured

2014 - Runs into peak KD while arguably being the best player on the floor.

2015 - Injured, I think they win it all if healthy this season

2016 - Griffin and CP3 injured

2017 - Griffin Injured

2018 - Injured after being up 3-2 against the cheat codes

2019 -Injured during regular season

On top of that the league VETOS A TRADE that would send him to the Lakers. What!

[Colbinii]

Dominique Wilkins on the list and CP3 isn't?

Where is Chris Mullin and Chris Webber?

[FrogBros4Life]

I have a fair amount of sympathy for Reggie continually coming up just short of the Bulls

Not quite sure what you mean by "continually coming up just short of the Bulls"....the Bulls and Pacers only met once in the playoffs in the 90's. If that was meant to say, "perpetually being on an inferior team than Jordan's Bulls", then agreed, but Reggie certainly isn't on an island there either.


Kind of surprised to see Nash leading the poll. I wouldn't ascribe most of his playoff defeats to instances of bad luck. The only one I can think of is the Horry body check into the scorer's table, and maybe the series against the Spurs where Duncan hit the 3 pointer in game 1 to force OT, Spurs win the game and the series in 5, because that was kind of a series momentum altering play. Even still, there are several other guys on the list who I'd say had worse luck over their cumulative playoff careers.

Webber being cheated out of the 2002 WCF by crooked refs is probably the single most egregious thing any player on this list had to endure, but I'm also not sure that actually qualifies as "luck" in how it's being used here.

The Lakers reeling off a 33 game win streak immediately after Baylor retires en route to a title is probably the thing that stands out the most after Webber, but again, that seems more like bad timing than bad luck, per se.

Ewing might have been faced with the most amount of bad luck from a team perspective, even if all of it didn't happen to him personally (re: "The Charles Smith Game", John Starks in G7 of the 94 Finals, Reggie's 8 points in 8 seconds [people forget that Derek Harper was ejected early in the 2nd half -- if Harper plays, that particular scenario probably does not play out, if for no other reason than Greg Anthony would not have been on the floor], half of the Knicks roster (4 starters and their backup PG) getting suspended over the final 2 games of the Knicks/Heat series in 97 after the Knicks were up 3-1 [this makes the Amare/Diaw suspensions from the Nash/Horry body check incident look quaint by comparison])

I'd have to agree that CP3 has been relatively unlucky as well.

[RCM88x]

The only thing unlucky of these men is their lack of ability or stature.

[Clyde Frazier]

Gut feeling is Nash due to Horry. Ewing is up there considering if Starks hits 2 more shots he has a ring. There are obviously cases for a lot of these guys, though.

Edit - yeah Baylor is right there too, even if we just look at the 69 finals.

[70sFan]

Elgin Baylor

[Morb]

T-Mac and CP3 easy, like 20 seasons of injuries/trash teams/"refs games". As I remember, CP3 chokes in 2009, T-Mac in 2007.

[ardee]

Where is Chris Paul?

2008 - Game 7 puts up 18/8/14 with 5 steals and Peja/Mo Pete/Pargo combine 11/35 (4/15 from deep) losing to the Spurs.

Trash teams in 2010 and 2011

2012 - Chauncey Billups out for season

2013 - Griffin gets injured

2014 - Runs into peak KD while arguably being the best player on the floor.

2015 - Injured, I think they win it all if healthy this season

2016 - Griffin and CP3 injured

2017 - Griffin Injured

2018 - Injured after being up 3-2 against the cheat codes

2019 -Injured during regular season

On top of that the league VETOS A TRADE that would send him to the Lakers. What!

It's brutal when you put it like that. 2015 and 2018 were his two best chances and WHAM.

[Colbinii]

Where is Chris Paul?

2008 - Game 7 puts up 18/8/14 with 5 steals and Peja/Mo Pete/Pargo combine 11/35 (4/15 from deep) losing to the Spurs.

Trash teams in 2010 and 2011

2012 - Chauncey Billups out for season

2013 - Griffin gets injured

2014 - Runs into peak KD while arguably being the best player on the floor.

2015 - Injured, I think they win it all if healthy this season

2016 - Griffin and CP3 injured

2017 - Griffin Injured

2018 - Injured after being up 3-2 against the cheat codes

2019 -Injured during regular season

On top of that the league VETOS A TRADE that would send him to the Lakers. What!

It's brutal when you put it like that. 2015 and 2018 were his two best chances and WHAM.

Yeah and he does get some flack for underperforming at times but a lot of it makes you go "Holy ****!".

Especially the Lakers trade.

[liamliam1234]

Not that it changes the overall point, but 2015 was the choke against the Rockets / Josh Smith game. They lost that one legitimately. As they did against the Thunder the year before when Paul basically had a mental meltdown in the final three minutes.