Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

[Pg81]

Let's not go crazy. Embiid's on a higher level.

But could also be out of league in few years with his leg problems.

KP isn’t anywhere near the player and has already torn his ACL while Luka has knee issues

Just never

Has a minor knee injury at the end of the season while carrying an utterly depleted roster -> knee issues

The results are consistent with human nature: most fans are eager to see what a young white boy from Europe might be able to do... while they know what a prospect developed in the US won't be able to do - shoot. It's all about the perceived upside, not the actual quality, contribution to winning, fit, etc.

I don't think 76ers would actually trade Simmons for Doncic. For some reason most GMs hold on to young prospects they drafted no matter what. Not even willing to listen to offers.

Playing the veiled racial prejudice card. Really, that is the best you can come up with?

[Pumpkin17]

Sixers would do it in half a second, it is much easier to find a defensive weapon like Simmons, which is where Simmons has the clear advantage than an offensive one like Doncic. Simmons cannot shoot and this will not change. Doncic is also better in the half-court, which is how playoffs are played.

[rzzzzz]

Poisonally, really liking the roster we got heading into the new season. Glad we got Ben resigned before Magic could pry him loose and pair him up with his mentor LeBron. I think Dallas has made some good moves. Maybe we'll see you in the finals a few years down the road.

[6ersfolife]

I can't wait for the season to start. Reality is going to hit some people like a brick. Will Simmons finally start shooting? He may, and he may not. There is no guarantee either way. I have seen him shoot, and I've seen him make shots and miss. His problem is confidence and contrary to what this Simmons hate board thinks, a 22 year old can definitely build his confidence and take the shot. Somehow this board has him as someone who if he shoots will airball everytime...Again, this fits the argument of the Doncic fans who think he is the next coming, but it is nowhere near the truth.

No Philly wouldn't do the trade this year, because we want to see his work translate, so ask this question next season after Doncic improves defensively and athletically as well. I've watched athletic players handcuff non athletic players many times in the playoff's. I'm guessing you'll tell me that somehow Kawai or Simmons guarding him won't matter? Yeah ok Doncic looks great on a tanking team, but let's hold our horses on how great he is until he does it against the same type of defensive pressure Simmons faced. He may shine, but I'll hold my judgement until I see him play in the games that really expose weaknesses.

For all you Doncic fans, In the Words of Winston Wolf " Well let's not start sucking each others dick's just yet"

[leolozon]

Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. Ben is clearly the better, more efficient offensive player. Not even sure how that can be argued against. You may have a point when Luka actually shoots the three well and doesn't have terrible FG and TS percentages. But that sure wasn't last year. But but but the Raptors series. Call me when Doncic makes the playoffs and has half the series Ben had against the Nets where he completely embarrassed DLo defensively. Oh that's right, I forgot, casuals think defense doesn't matter.

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Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.

Context does matter

When Simmons first played in the NBA, it was with a team that had won 56 games in the previous 3 years and whose only proven player was J J Redick

The moment he stepped onto the floor with virtually unknown quantity Embiid (he had played 28 NBA games and less than 150 in his life), tanking stopped as they were simply too good to lose consistently

Ended up making the 2nd round with a bunch of nobodies

Saris has since been moved twice, RoCo is RoCo while guys like Bellinelli & Ilyasova are allegedly on the outer with their new teams

Luka started his NBA career with DeAndre Jordan and the Mavs were tanking from early on

Lol... Nice job trying to make Embiid and the Sixers roster look as bad as possible while making it sound like Deandre Jordan was still a great player last year. (By the way, Bellini and Ilyasova barely played that year.)

Oh yeah, and Dallas weren't tanking from early on. They were close to .500 and would probably have tried to make a push for the playoffs if they were in the East.

Embiid, Covington, Saric, Reddick and A. Johnson (best bench player) were a FAR better "supporting cast" in 2018 than Deandre, Barnes, DSJ, Matthews and Powell (best bench player) were in 2019. In what world are you living? VORP and RPM are both ranking them close to the same, with PHI having 5 of the 7 best "supporting" players.

VORP is ranking it :
1- Covington
2- Powell
3- Embiid
4- Saric
5- Deandre
6- Amir
7- Reddick
8-Matthews
9- DSJ
10-Barnes

RPM is ranking it (PHI 2018, DAL 2019) :

1- Covington 5.45
2- Embiid 5.10
3- Powell 2.31 (21.6 MPG)
4- Amir 1.78 (15.8 MPG)
5- Deandre 1.49
6- Reddick 0.55
7- Saric 0.33
8- Barnes -0.21
9- Matthews -0.55
10- DSJ -2.02

In fact, only 3 of the 17 guys Luka played with had a positif RPM: 2 guys played 21MPG (Powell, Kleiber) and 1 left before the all-star break (DeAndre). So just stop it trying to make it sound like Simmons dragged a bunch of nobody to the playoffs and Luka didn't have that bad of a team.

By the way, I think that Simmons has slightly the edge over Luka right now, but if Luka improves in any way in his 2nd year, he'll get the edge considering Simmons didn't get that much better in his 2nd season. And no PHI wouldn't make that trade, because they should go for the championship next year and the gamble isn't worth it.

[Johnny Bball]

I think both have been hella overrated by their fans this early in their career, but there is no way you don’t pick the extra two years of rookie scale pay, passing and shooting of Doncic.

[6ersfolife]

I think both have been hella overrated by their fans this early in their career, but there is no way you don’t pick the extra two years of rookie scale pay, passing and shooting of Doncic.

That would be the reason if the Sixers did it, I'd understand

[Misteclipse]

In a sport where the object is to put the ball in the net, and gives you a point advantage for doing it from further away, shooting the basketball should rank very high on your list lol.

And no Simmons doesn't do everything better than Luka, Luka is by far the superior offensive player

Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. Ben is clearly the better, more efficient offensive player. Not even sure how that can be argued against. You may have a point when Luka actually shoots the three well and doesn't have terrible FG and TS percentages. But that sure wasn't last year. But but but the Raptors series. Call me when Doncic makes the playoffs and has half the series Ben had against the Nets where he completely embarrassed DLo defensively. Oh that's right, I forgot, casuals think defense doesn't matter.

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Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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[Pg81]

Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. Ben is clearly the better, more efficient offensive player. Not even sure how that can be argued against. You may have a point when Luka actually shoots the three well and doesn't have terrible FG and TS percentages. But that sure wasn't last year. But but but the Raptors series. Call me when Doncic makes the playoffs and has half the series Ben had against the Nets where he completely embarrassed DLo defensively. Oh that's right, I forgot, casuals think defense doesn't matter.

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Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

[Misteclipse]

Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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[Misteclipse]

Sixers would do it in half a second, it is much easier to find a defensive weapon like Simmons, which is where Simmons has the clear advantage than an offensive one like Doncic. Simmons cannot shoot and this will not change. Doncic is also better in the half-court, which is how playoffs are played.

Quite an ironic post considering the playoffs is also where top level defense matters. Philadelphia wouldn't have gone nearly as far they did in the playoffs without his defense. He embarrassed DLo and they definitely don't take the champion Raptors to a last second miracle shot in game 7.

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[Johnny Bball]

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I’m not even a fan, but if that’s just a bad take. Anyone with a TS% of .550 is an inefficient chucker? No.

[Pg81]

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.

[Misteclipse]

Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I’m not even a fan, but if that’s just a bad take. Anyone with a TS% of .550 is an inefficient chucker? No.

It was .545 which is below the league average, and yes anyone that takes 7 threes a game at a .327 clip is an inefficient chucker. It's only fair since the hip thing to do is to knock a player that scores the ball efficiently and plays within his means.

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[Pg81]

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I’m not even a fan, but if that’s just a bad take. Anyone with a TS% of .550 is an inefficient chucker? No.

It was .545 which is below the league average, and yes anyone that takes 7 threes a game at a .327 clip is an inefficient chucker. It's only fair since the hip thing to do is to knock a player that scores the ball efficiently and plays within his means.

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Until the all star break Luka shot around 37% from beyond the arc with an impressive range hitting last second shots from half court. It was only after the rest of the starting 5 was traded away that his efficiency started to slip and then came the knee injury. Simmons is efficient not because he is the better scorer or skilled but because he has the optimal team around him and gets by on his athleticism, similar to guys like Stoudamire and Howard on far lower volume. Pray that he will never have a serious injury because without his athleticism Simmons would be completely worthless as a scorer. What is more the Mavs were tanking and Doncic was given the free light so he took quite a few bad shots especially when his team mates were unable to hit wide open 3s and he got impatient, a habit easily fixable with a good coach and some more experience. Swap places and Simmons is far worse than Doncic despite having an effective range of 3 feet. Furthermore many rookies, including for example LeBron, struggle with effiency in their rookie year so this is not anything special either. Come back to me when Simmons can finally hit wide open 3s without embarassing himself.
Anyone proclaiming Doncic to be a mere chucker has either not watched the Mavs or has no clue about basketball.

Oh and here, Dirk's rookie statline: 8/3/1 on 41/21/77. But I guess Dirk was nothing but a chucker.

[Bob8]

Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. Ben is clearly the better, more efficient offensive player. Not even sure how that can be argued against. You may have a point when Luka actually shoots the three well and doesn't have terrible FG and TS percentages. But that sure wasn't last year. But but but the Raptors series. Call me when Doncic makes the playoffs and has half the series Ben had against the Nets where he completely embarrassed DLo defensively. Oh that's right, I forgot, casuals think defense doesn't matter.

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Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.

The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0?

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.

People don’t understand, how little 6’8”, 230 Pg with elite vision and having 21/8/6 with only 19 years, needs to become a great player. Luka with better conditioning, a little better efficiency and 38%+ 3 pts shooting is a superstar.

[VDT]

Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.

Come on now.

So Doncic's floor is a better Paul Pierce?

I get fans tend to overrate their young players but it is getting a bit ridiculous here.

The truth is that most of the young players will not amount to much and will be a footnote (or less) in the history of the league.

I would like to see Doncic's second year, how much he will improve given the fact that he was a much more polished player than the other rookies and whether he and Porzinghis can lead Dallas anywhere. Then we will have a much better idea for his future as a player.

[Johnny Bball]

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I’m not even a fan, but if that’s just a bad take. Anyone with a TS% of .550 is an inefficient chucker? No.

It was .545 which is below the league average, and yes anyone that takes 7 threes a game at a .327 clip is an inefficient chucker. It's only fair since the hip thing to do is to knock a player that scores the ball efficiently and plays within his means.

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Oh I'm sorry for being off by 5 one thousands hen I was remembering off the top of my head. The league average? You're comparing him to every position, every usage (which matters) and non-rookies just for starters. So of course it's below league average. Why use any metric if you don't know what you're measuring or where the bar should be. I would say his shooting was pretty close to dead average given those 3 things, especially being a rookie. The label of inefficient chucker though, is just a bad take.

[Misteclipse]

Doncic has shown plenty of glimpses of great shooting with an incredible step back jumper and deep 3s. That despite the fact that he had 0 offensive help during the second half of the season and the only real scoring threat. To top it all off he had played professional basketball for 3 years and had barely a month to prepare for the season and hardly any rest on top of struggling with knee injuries later which dragged down his efficiency by a noticeable margin. He was also eager to take bad shots when he became impatient or frustrated, a habit that is easily fixable with good coaching and experience.
So no the projection that he will turn into a good shooter overall is not even remotely as far fetched as Ben Simmons suddenly turning into a solid shooter. Come back to me once Simmons has hit is first 3 pointer.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.

Actually I'm German and watched many Mavs games last year as they've been my second favorite team since Dirk. Everything you've proclaimed about why Doncic was inefficient is an excuse, and everything you've proclaimed about Doncic increasing his efficiency because of X and Y and Z is an assumption. Players get better teammates or join better teams all the time and don't improve efficiency by much. I'm sure Doncic will become a more efficient player because of his own development, not because of all the excuses you just made. But that too is an assumption, just like assuming Ben can't develop even a mediocre jumpshot and continue to improve his FT shooting.

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[Pg81]

Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.

Come on now.

So Doncic's floor is a better Paul Pierce?

I get fans tend to overrate their young players but it is getting a bit ridiculous here.

The truth is that most of the young players will not amount to much and will be a footnote (or less) in the history of the league.

I would like to see Doncic's second year, how much he will improve given the fact that he was a much more polished player than the other rookies and whether he and Porzinghis can lead Dallas anywhere. Then we will have a much better idea for his future as a player.

What is wrong with that? Luka won everything in Europe including MvP awards which far surpass any college achievments. He had a very good rookie season especially early on and struggled after the AS break due to having to play with a roster depleted of talent and playing several games with a lingering knee injury which forced him in the end to miss 7 games. Before that the Mavs were on course of getting to a 0.500 season with DeAndre being his second best player and otherwise little talent.

Paul Pierce rookie season: 17/6/2 on 45/41/71 worse statline than Doncic. 3 point efficiency is deceptive, Pierce took less than two shots from beyond the arc that season.