iamworthy wrote:?s=21
That’s not great where the thing the lakers need the most from him, perimeter shooting, seems to be his worse aspect
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iamworthy wrote:?s=21
USA Celtics in full effect. Amazing chemistry building experience right there for the main core of the team
TKainZero wrote:iamworthy wrote:?s=21
That’s not great where the thing the lakers need the most from him, perimeter shooting, seems to be his worse aspect
iamworthy wrote:?s=21
stan francisco wrote:Interesting. I have a problem not to question the grades listed entirely, as well as the general judgment of the author of them. Remove reality and I could accept those stats but that’s pointless. Blind stats like this have absolutely no merit in my world.
stan francisco wrote:iamworthy wrote:?s=21
Interesting. I have a problem not to question the grades listed entirely, as well as the general judgment of the author of them. Remove reality and I could accept those stats but that’s pointless. Blind stats like this have absolutely no merit in my world.
The reality: His shooting last year was off given his injury and concurrent injuries to all other starters. So his stats, like all Lakers stats of 2018-19, are misleading due to sustained injuries to several of our core players: James, Ingram, Lonzo, Rondo etc. Tatum’s stats without 3-4 starters for a big part of the season would take similar hits.
Counter to the stats listed, I’d like to argue he’s a terrific knock down shooter who moves extremely well off the ball. Especially playing next to James, as we’ve all seen. His interior defense isn’t very good. I think we can all agree on that.
In general, Kuzma’s best attribute — besides scoring and cutting off the ball — is his mindset. He’s a killer and a hard working blue collar junk yard dog. His weaknesses will be improved year to year. His Mamba mindset and elite level effort will prove all of those stats wrong, long before Christmas this year.
Kuz will be our third star. Eye test and his prevailing mindset of determined hard work to improve says so. In Kuz I trust.
hoosierdaddy34 wrote:stan francisco wrote:iamworthy wrote:?s=21
Interesting. I have a problem not to question the grades listed entirely, as well as the general judgment of the author of them. Remove reality and I could accept those stats but that’s pointless. Blind stats like this have absolutely no merit in my world.
The reality: His shooting last year was off given his injury and concurrent injuries to all other starters. So his stats, like all Lakers stats of 2018-19, are misleading due to sustained injuries to several of our core players: James, Ingram, Lonzo, Rondo etc. Tatum’s stats without 3-4 starters for a big part of the season would take similar hits.
Counter to the stats listed, I’d like to argue he’s a terrific knock down shooter who moves extremely well off the ball. Especially playing next to James, as we’ve all seen. His interior defense isn’t very good. I think we can all agree on that.
In general, Kuzma’s best attribute — besides scoring and cutting off the ball — is his mindset. He’s a killer and a hard working blue collar junk yard dog. His weaknesses will be improved year to year. His Mamba mindset and elite level effort will prove all of those stats wrong, long before Christmas this year.
Kuz will be our third star. Eye test and his prevailing mindset of determined hard work to improve says so. In Kuz I trust.
Aside from the previous post that talked about the stats not being arbitrary. I’m going to push back on the Kuz being a terrific knock down shooter.
He wasn’t a very good outside shooter in college.
He came out and knocked down shots for the first two and a half months of his rookie year.
Then regressed the 2nd half of his rookie year back to his college levels.
Followed up last year with shooting averages consistent with his career numbers outside of that two and a half month stretch.
He has one stretch of games where he shot well but outside of that his career numbers have been consistently not good. I think he has a ton to prove and a long ways to go to improve.
Sedale Threatt wrote:stan francisco wrote:Interesting. I have a problem not to question the grades listed entirely, as well as the general judgment of the author of them. Remove reality and I could accept those stats but that’s pointless. Blind stats like this have absolutely no merit in my world.
The thing is, they're not blind. The NBA has had cameras up in the rafters of their arenas for a while now, which allows for pretty much everything that happens on the court to be digitally tracked and categorized down to the inch.
Zach Lowe wrote a fascinating story on it six years ago, since which NBA teams have undoubtedly only gotten better at figuring out how to take advantage of all that information.
https://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/
NBA.com has an entire section on their stats site tracking how players fare in 10 or 11 different play types -- spot-ups, post-ups, isolation plays, cutting, off screens, etc etc. None of this is subjective. It all goes into the database from their cameras, and everything is basically math at that point: How many possessions you get per game in each category, how many points are produced per those individual possessions, and what percentile that puts you in compared to the rest of the NBA.
There's also a section to track how well players shoot depending on how close their defenders are: 2 feet or less (covered), out to six feet or more (wide open). Kuzma on the latter shots last season was 35.9 pct, so he's not even remotely close to being a knock-down shooter. (In comparison, Stephen Curry, as you'd expect, was something like 52 or 53 percent.)
So, in short, it's not some sportswriter coming up with arbitrary grades. It's all data based.
Ball so hard wrote:hoosierdaddy34 wrote:stan francisco wrote:
Interesting. I have a problem not to question the grades listed entirely, as well as the general judgment of the author of them. Remove reality and I could accept those stats but that’s pointless. Blind stats like this have absolutely no merit in my world.
The reality: His shooting last year was off given his injury and concurrent injuries to all other starters. So his stats, like all Lakers stats of 2018-19, are misleading due to sustained injuries to several of our core players: James, Ingram, Lonzo, Rondo etc. Tatum’s stats without 3-4 starters for a big part of the season would take similar hits.
Counter to the stats listed, I’d like to argue he’s a terrific knock down shooter who moves extremely well off the ball. Especially playing next to James, as we’ve all seen. His interior defense isn’t very good. I think we can all agree on that.
In general, Kuzma’s best attribute — besides scoring and cutting off the ball — is his mindset. He’s a killer and a hard working blue collar junk yard dog. His weaknesses will be improved year to year. His Mamba mindset and elite level effort will prove all of those stats wrong, long before Christmas this year.
Kuz will be our third star. Eye test and his prevailing mindset of determined hard work to improve says so. In Kuz I trust.
Aside from the previous post that talked about the stats not being arbitrary. I’m going to push back on the Kuz being a terrific knock down shooter.
He wasn’t a very good outside shooter in college.
He came out and knocked down shots for the first two and a half months of his rookie year.
Then regressed the 2nd half of his rookie year back to his college levels.
Followed up last year with shooting averages consistent with his career numbers outside of that two and a half month stretch.
He has one stretch of games where he shot well but outside of that his career numbers have been consistently not good. I think he has a ton to prove and a long ways to go to improve.
I wouldn't place too much weight on his college stats. In his first year in the NBA, he made almost as many 3 point shots as he attempted his entire college career. I think stats are very useful when used correctly. Cherry-picking a few months (or a stretch of games) to support your preconceived opinion is a bit misguided.
I don't agree he's a terrific knock down shooter. I do agree he needs to show significant improvement this year.
hoosierdaddy34 wrote:Ball so hard wrote:hoosierdaddy34 wrote:
Aside from the previous post that talked about the stats not being arbitrary. I’m going to push back on the Kuz being a terrific knock down shooter.
He wasn’t a very good outside shooter in college.
He came out and knocked down shots for the first two and a half months of his rookie year.
Then regressed the 2nd half of his rookie year back to his college levels.
Followed up last year with shooting averages consistent with his career numbers outside of that two and a half month stretch.
He has one stretch of games where he shot well but outside of that his career numbers have been consistently not good. I think he has a ton to prove and a long ways to go to improve.
I wouldn't place too much weight on his college stats. In his first year in the NBA, he made almost as many 3 point shots as he attempted his entire college career. I think stats are very useful when used correctly. Cherry-picking a few months (or a stretch of games) to support your preconceived opinion is a bit misguided.
I don't agree he's a terrific knock down shooter. I do agree he needs to show significant improvement this year.
College stats shouldn’t always be trusted and stats should be used correctly.
If a guy shoots 38% in college, with the shorter distance and slow, short guy close outs, that probably doesn’t translate to the nba. But if you can’t shoot in college? That probably shouldn’t be ignored. The list of players who couldn’t shoot in college but came into the NBA, with the longer distance against taller and quicker player closeouts, and could hit shots right away? That’s a pretty short list that may have no one on it. So bad college shooting stats probably shouldn’t be ignored. Do they mean he won’t always be able to shoot? No absolutely not, but when most of nba performance mirrors those numbers? That’s again starting to paint a picture that he does have a lot of work to do.
Maybe he did it, and really improved a ton? I don’t know... but people are talking like he’s a guaranteed 37 or 38% three ball shooter this year. That’s a 7 or 8% jump in one year...it happens but it doesn’t happen very often. So I need to see it before I say Kuz is anything but a bad shooter at this point.
dockingsched wrote:For Kuzma, even when you look at shots from the corner, or that are catch n shoot, or that are considered open....he’s still a mediocre shooter. Not encouraging.
Sedale Threatt wrote:The perimeter shooting category doesn't even need digital tracking: He took 39 percent of his shots last season from 3-point and shot 30 percent on those shots, roughly six points below league average. In other words, complete dog sh*t. So hopefully all those Instagram workouts pay off...
iamworthy wrote:I blame the media and that damn mural for all of this third star stuff anyway I'd love to see it, but I currently has boogie as the third star. I think he takes another step in his road to recovery.
iamworthy wrote:I blame the media and that damn mural for all of this third star stuff anyway I'd love to see it, but I currently has boogie as the third star. I think he takes another step in his road to recovery.
Kilroy wrote:I don't care so much about his production rate from 3, no matter where he's taking the shot... What concerned me last year, is actually related to that "Mamba-mentality" credit he's receiving...
After his rookie year, in which, regardless of consistency over the entire season, he established himself as at least, a guy you had to stay honest on, on the perimeter, he started talking "Be like Kobe" and decided he didn't want to just be a spot up shooter anymore. He came in in season 2, with the seeming goal of competing with Ingram at his own game, and trying to win the starting 3 from him. He started passing up wide open 3s for awkward drives... Not only that, but his 'mamba-mentality' turned him into one of the worst black-holes on the team last season. He was focused on scoring every time he touched the ball, and wasn't super efficient at it... And worked his way out of minutes...
Not to mention outside of a handful of passable match-ups, he was comically bad on Defense.