Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#141 » by TurinTurambar » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:02 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Vincent 666 wrote:The 2nd amendment doesnt exist to "fight government tyranny". Its exists to prevent society from ever getting to that point.


Americans buy over 2 million guns EVERY MONTH to add to the over 400mm already in circulation. The government would never ever attempt a takeover in the country, which is exactly the point. Free citizens are armed, ready to defend their rights and liberty. If you choose to be a serf to your government masters, well that's your business..


If the US Military ever went rogue and turned on the populace at the behest of the government it doesn't matter how many guns are in circulations, the American populace would be toast.


And we wouldn't even see it coming. One of the many reasons why the pro-gun "self defense" argument has always been flatly ridiculous as even a premise

*Edit

About as ridiculous as the semantic battles over "Semi-Auto" and the like. Call it a glitter cannon for all I care; it doesn't change what it is.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#142 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:05 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:Some of you guys really don’t understand the role that race and racism plays in our society. You think race doesn’t belong in the conversation but it really does if you look at our history and recent evidence.

Here’s a brief history. The right to bare arms was rooted in slavery and originated in the south to control slaves.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/407809/

The NRA supported open carry until the Black Panthers started carrying and then they changed their tune fast. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

Gun laws are not reinforced consistently across whites and blacks, with an anti-black bias. There’s been research on this. Black folks are also way more likely to get killed by police for the same circumstances. Again this is well documented.
https://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2018/11/15/report-from-the-2018-apha-meeting-part-1-research-on-racial-disparities-in-gun-violence/

Do I think Mark Madsen would get the same sentence as Telfair? Probably not to be honest.

Now I’m not saying Telfair was smart here. Clearly he made a horrible decision. This was really really dumb. But I’m frankly more concerned about the right wing gun nuts with stockpiles of weapons who tend to be the ones who commit mass murders. And yeah, if these nut jobs were walking around brandishing a weapon in the supermarket, I’d be far more concerned than Telfair having weapons in a car.



The point is more that there really isn't any discernible reason to turn this thread into a discussion about institutional racism any more than any other thread. Does institutional racism exist? You betcha. Is it at play in the laws/legal system we see here? Probably. Is it notably relevant in Telfair's case? I mean, it's tied in there but not really relevant to the discussion here. Telfair was on his second offense here and it wasn't a small one. Mandatory sentences suck but there was absolutely no reason for Telfair to go there. It really depends on what the plea deal he was offered was. If it included the mandatory minimum sentence anyway, then maybe he was set up to fail but if it was less than he got and his case was as open and shut as it was, then this was just an awful decision on his part.

The other question here is whether or not New York should be required to abide by other states' laws. It strikes me that, while they're definitely far from perfect, New York's drop in gun crime probably suggests they're at least doing something partly right.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#143 » by Golden Knight » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:15 pm

TurinTurambar wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Americans buy over 2 million guns EVERY MONTH to add to the over 400mm already in circulation. The government would never ever attempt a takeover in the country, which is exactly the point. Free citizens are armed, ready to defend their rights and liberty. If you choose to be a serf to your government masters, well that's your business..


If the US Military ever went rogue and turned on the populace at the behest of the government it doesn't matter how many guns are in circulations, the American populace would be toast.


And we wouldn't even see it coming. One of the many reasons why the pro-gun "self defense" argument has always been flatly ridiculous as even a premise.

Yeah that was cartoonish thinking. A country that has won World Wars is going to be afraid of civilians with guns?

How will guns protect you from Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear weapons? Kidnap the president or something like in the movies?
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#144 » by Swish1906 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:22 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Again, none of which offers any sort of logical solution. All this kind of stuff is... is emotional reaction and cries for change, without any path to get here. It's no different than the media trotting out "women and children" constantly. It may as well be considered marketing TBH. Let's come up with some logical solutions my man.


Again, beyond ignorant. Gratulations.

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#145 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:24 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:

Thanks for proving my point that this word is tossed around with emotion, yet almost never an accurate term in discussion. A machine gun is a FULLY automatic rifle normally fed by ammunition belt. Perfect example being a mini gun shooting 7.62mm from the side of a helicopter. He didn't have one. Have you seen what a fully automatic gun looks like? There is a huge difference in say 6,000 rounds per minute in a machine gun and the demonized AR-15 which fires closer to 400-500 rounds a minute from a good shooter.



This statement is so incredible ignorant, wow. Few days ago it took a guy with a "demonized" AR-15 freaking 32 seconds to kill 9 people and hit another 14 people with bullets. So imagine the bodycount if it was five minutes instead of 32 seconds.

And you are really trying to downplay this with some bull argumenting about machine guns, fully/semi automatic rifles blabla ajd how they are not that bad in comparison to real machine guns. And the AR-15 is just demonized and its JUST 400-500 rounds per minute. Well, was enough rounds per minutes in Las Vegas too.

Disgusting.


No need to strawman. I'm arguing that using the word "machine gun" to describe semi automatics is woefully ignorant. It's like politicians who interchange illegal immigrant with legal immigrant. They are NOT the same thing in the slightest. It doesn't mean an AR-15 cannot wreak havoc. As for Vegas, not even remotely the same. The AR-15 used in Vegas had a bump stock and other mods for increased firing rate and capacity. Not to mention he was shooting for over 10 minutes and exposed Vegas' totally inept law enforcement response. The security guard was shot 6 whole minutes before he even started the rampage on the people in the concert. How did law enforcement not get to him at that point? The police didn't even show up to Paddock's room until he stopped his rampage and had committed suicide.

Again, none of which offers any sort of logical solution. All this kind of stuff is... is emotional reaction and cries for change, without any path to get here. It's no different than the media trotting out "women and children" constantly. It may as well be considered marketing TBH. Let's come up with some logical solutions my man.



500 rounds per minute? That's only about 9 per second. Meh.

So not impressed. It's literally about 10x closer to a slingshot than a machine gun. Fortunately, we all know that now.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#146 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:27 pm

TurinTurambar wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Americans buy over 2 million guns EVERY MONTH to add to the over 400mm already in circulation. The government would never ever attempt a takeover in the country, which is exactly the point. Free citizens are armed, ready to defend their rights and liberty. If you choose to be a serf to your government masters, well that's your business..


If the US Military ever went rogue and turned on the populace at the behest of the government it doesn't matter how many guns are in circulations, the American populace would be toast.


And we wouldn't even see it coming. One of the many reasons why the pro-gun "self defense" argument has always been flatly ridiculous as even a premise

*Edit

About as ridiculous as the semantic battles over "Semi-Auto" and the like. Call it a glitter cannon for all I care; it doesn't change what it is.


As soon as someone enters a discussion about guns with the words "define assault rifle" or "define sub machine gun", I can already tell that they're about to go off on a bad faith tangent.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#147 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:33 pm

Golden Knight wrote:
TurinTurambar wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
If the US Military ever went rogue and turned on the populace at the behest of the government it doesn't matter how many guns are in circulations, the American populace would be toast.


And we wouldn't even see it coming. One of the many reasons why the pro-gun "self defense" argument has always been flatly ridiculous as even a premise.

Yeah that was cartoonish thinking. A country that has won World Wars is going to be afraid of civilians with guns?

How will guns protect you from Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear weapons? Kidnap the president or something like in the movies?


These 2A nutjobs really think they can take on the military with AR-15s. Good luck with all that when a well timed drone strike blows up your house.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#148 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Vincent 666 wrote:The 2nd amendment doesnt exist to "fight government tyranny". Its exists to prevent society from ever getting to that point.


Americans buy over 2 million guns EVERY MONTH to add to the over 400mm already in circulation. The government would never ever attempt a takeover in the country, which is exactly the point. Free citizens are armed, ready to defend their rights and liberty. If you choose to be a serf to your government masters, well that's your business..


99% of those with these guns would end up shooting themselves in the foot before they took a life with them...
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#149 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:45 pm

RoyceDa59 wrote:Just leave the guns at home. Is it that hard to understand?

What's he doing with a machine gun anyways?


Buying pot to smoke while driving in his car it seems...
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#150 » by heatwillbeback » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:49 pm

It’s a big sentence but it’s important to note that he had a weapons charge in 2007 and got probation. He got his chance and failed to change his behavior.

So no, I do not feel bad for the guy.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#151 » by Sabas11 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:53 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:

Thanks for proving my point that this word is tossed around with emotion, yet almost never an accurate term in discussion. A machine gun is a FULLY automatic rifle normally fed by ammunition belt. Perfect example being a mini gun shooting 7.62mm from the side of a helicopter. He didn't have one. Have you seen what a fully automatic gun looks like? There is a huge difference in say 6,000 rounds per minute in a machine gun and the demonized AR-15 which fires closer to 400-500 rounds a minute from a good shooter.



This statement is so incredible ignorant, wow. Few days ago it took a guy with a "demonized" AR-15 freaking 32 seconds to kill 9 people and hit another 14 people with bullets. So imagine the bodycount if it was five minutes instead of 32 seconds.

And you are really trying to downplay this with some bull argumenting about machine guns, fully/semi automatic rifles blabla ajd how they are not that bad in comparison to real machine guns. And the AR-15 is just demonized and its JUST 400-500 rounds per minute. Well, was enough rounds per minutes in Las Vegas too.

Disgusting.


No need to strawman. I'm arguing that using the word "machine gun" to describe semi automatics is woefully ignorant. It's like politicians who interchange illegal immigrant with legal immigrant. They are NOT the same thing in the slightest. It doesn't mean an AR-15 cannot wreak havoc. As for Vegas, not even remotely the same. The AR-15 used in Vegas had a bump stock and other mods for increased firing rate and capacity. Not to mention he was shooting for over 10 minutes and exposed Vegas' totally inept law enforcement response. The security guard was shot 6 whole minutes before he even started the rampage on the people in the concert. How did law enforcement not get to him at that point? The police didn't even show up to Paddock's room until he stopped his rampage and had committed suicide.

Again, none of which offers any sort of logical solution. All this kind of stuff is... is emotional reaction and cries for change, without any path to get here. It's no different than the media trotting out "women and children" constantly. It may as well be considered marketing TBH. Let's come up with some logical solutions my man.


Sorry but your appeal to logic falls on deaf ears when you start using the slippery slope argument (did someone say emotional reaction?) and keep bickering about what constitutes a dangerous weapon.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#152 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:55 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:It’s a big sentence but it’s important to note that he had a weapons charge in 2007 and got probation. He got his chance and failed to change his behavior.

So no, I do not feel bad for the guy.


This is how I feel. It sucks for him, but he knew he has priors.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#153 » by binjumper » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:02 pm

Looks like his shooting days are over.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#154 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:04 pm

Sabas11 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:

This statement is so incredible ignorant, wow. Few days ago it took a guy with a "demonized" AR-15 freaking 32 seconds to kill 9 people and hit another 14 people with bullets. So imagine the bodycount if it was five minutes instead of 32 seconds.

And you are really trying to downplay this with some bull argumenting about machine guns, fully/semi automatic rifles blabla ajd how they are not that bad in comparison to real machine guns. And the AR-15 is just demonized and its JUST 400-500 rounds per minute. Well, was enough rounds per minutes in Las Vegas too.

Disgusting.


No need to strawman. I'm arguing that using the word "machine gun" to describe semi automatics is woefully ignorant. It's like politicians who interchange illegal immigrant with legal immigrant. They are NOT the same thing in the slightest. It doesn't mean an AR-15 cannot wreak havoc. As for Vegas, not even remotely the same. The AR-15 used in Vegas had a bump stock and other mods for increased firing rate and capacity. Not to mention he was shooting for over 10 minutes and exposed Vegas' totally inept law enforcement response. The security guard was shot 6 whole minutes before he even started the rampage on the people in the concert. How did law enforcement not get to him at that point? The police didn't even show up to Paddock's room until he stopped his rampage and had committed suicide.

Again, none of which offers any sort of logical solution. All this kind of stuff is... is emotional reaction and cries for change, without any path to get here. It's no different than the media trotting out "women and children" constantly. It may as well be considered marketing TBH. Let's come up with some logical solutions my man.


Sorry but your appeal to logic falls on deaf ears when you start using the slippery slope argument (did someone say emotional reaction?) and keep bickering about what constitutes a dangerous weapon.


A slippery slope is not always fallacious. I am well aware of the fallacy. That does NOT mean a slippery slope, especially with well documented evidence doesn't exist. I can list off dozens of examples of a slippery slope with the government in regards to giving them an inch and they take a mile. I gave one very valid example in the Patriot Act from George W to show what I was referencing. A slippery slope is NOT the premises of my argument necessarily, just an example of the consequences of giving the government more power based on what we've seen historically.

Here is an excerpt from an article that defines it pretty nicely.

"A slippery slope argument is merely a claim that “A will lead to B” either as an inevitability, as an increased probability, or as a logical outcome. Slippery slope arguments are often misunderstood, and many people mistakenly think their use is always logically fallacious. As a general rule, if someone summarily dismisses a slippery slope claim, he or she is probably not the type of person who understands how arguments work. (For instance, there are numerous legal precedents where people have argued that accepting legal decision A will lead to B and have been proven correct.)"

In other words, a slippery slope can either be fallacious or not. I gave a good example of what I was comparing to as a point of reference and therefor don't believe the way I used it was fallacious. The US government has a LONG track record of abuse of power and rights.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#155 » by og15 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:09 pm

SWYM wrote:
blind prophet wrote:Telfair told The Post on Monday before his sentencing that the weapons were his and legally licensed, although in Florida. He was not licensed to have them in New York.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/ex-nba-player-sebastian-telfair-gets-over-3-years-on-weapons-charges/

Seems kind of harsh to me.

Note to self, don't bring a gun to NY.
NYC does not play around when it comes to gun possession wout a permit.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/05/plaxico-burress-gun-prison-michael-bloomberg-nyc-giants
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#156 » by chrismikayla » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:12 pm

karkinos wrote:literally couldn't pay him to get out of the hood mentality.


Just FYI, you don't have to have a "hood mentality" to carry protection. In fact, in today's social climate in the U.S., you'd be foolish not to be prepared to protect yourself.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#157 » by chrismikayla » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:16 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:Some of you guys really don’t understand the role that race and racism plays in our society. You think race doesn’t belong in the conversation but it really does if you look at our history and recent evidence.

Here’s a brief history. The right to bare arms was rooted in slavery and originated in the south to control slaves.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/407809/

The NRA supported open carry until the Black Panthers started carrying and then they changed their tune fast. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

Gun laws are not reinforced consistently across whites and blacks, with an anti-black bias. There’s been research on this. Black folks are also way more likely to get killed by police for the same circumstances. Again this is well documented.
https://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2018/11/15/report-from-the-2018-apha-meeting-part-1-research-on-racial-disparities-in-gun-violence/

Do I think Mark Madsen would get the same sentence as Telfair? Probably not to be honest.

Now I’m not saying Telfair was smart here. Clearly he made a horrible decision. This was really really dumb. But I’m frankly more concerned about the right wing gun nuts with stockpiles of weapons who tend to be the ones who commit mass murders. And yeah, if these nut jobs were walking around brandishing a weapon in the supermarket, I’d be far more concerned than Telfair having weapons in a car.


It's shocking people are still in denial about racism today, especially after the past couple of years and minorities being attacked and killed. Some people will always be in denial I suppose regardless of what happens...
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#158 » by AbeVigodaLive » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:22 pm

chrismikayla wrote:
karkinos wrote:literally couldn't pay him to get out of the hood mentality.


Just FYI, you don't have to have a "hood mentality" to carry protection. In fact, in today's social climate in the U.S., you'd be foolish not to be prepared to protect yourself.




Don't know if "foolish" is the best word for whether people should be expected to carry a firearm or not... there's still a relatively small percentage of encounters where you'd need that gun.

Justified might be a better option to get your point across without unnecessary hyperbole, insult and other stuff.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#159 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:26 pm

chrismikayla wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:Some of you guys really don’t understand the role that race and racism plays in our society. You think race doesn’t belong in the conversation but it really does if you look at our history and recent evidence.

Here’s a brief history. The right to bare arms was rooted in slavery and originated in the south to control slaves.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/407809/

The NRA supported open carry until the Black Panthers started carrying and then they changed their tune fast. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

Gun laws are not reinforced consistently across whites and blacks, with an anti-black bias. There’s been research on this. Black folks are also way more likely to get killed by police for the same circumstances. Again this is well documented.
https://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2018/11/15/report-from-the-2018-apha-meeting-part-1-research-on-racial-disparities-in-gun-violence/

Do I think Mark Madsen would get the same sentence as Telfair? Probably not to be honest.

Now I’m not saying Telfair was smart here. Clearly he made a horrible decision. This was really really dumb. But I’m frankly more concerned about the right wing gun nuts with stockpiles of weapons who tend to be the ones who commit mass murders. And yeah, if these nut jobs were walking around brandishing a weapon in the supermarket, I’d be far more concerned than Telfair having weapons in a car.


It's shocking people are still in denial about racism today, especially after the past couple of years and minorities being attacked and killed. Some people will always be in denial I suppose regardless of what happens...


I believe a lot of the claims of systemic racism etc are false, BUT I do agree with it's use here. People of color are disproportionately mistreated, killed, sentenced more harshly for having firearms 100%. No denying this really.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#160 » by Sabas11 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Sabas11 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
No need to strawman. I'm arguing that using the word "machine gun" to describe semi automatics is woefully ignorant. It's like politicians who interchange illegal immigrant with legal immigrant. They are NOT the same thing in the slightest. It doesn't mean an AR-15 cannot wreak havoc. As for Vegas, not even remotely the same. The AR-15 used in Vegas had a bump stock and other mods for increased firing rate and capacity. Not to mention he was shooting for over 10 minutes and exposed Vegas' totally inept law enforcement response. The security guard was shot 6 whole minutes before he even started the rampage on the people in the concert. How did law enforcement not get to him at that point? The police didn't even show up to Paddock's room until he stopped his rampage and had committed suicide.

Again, none of which offers any sort of logical solution. All this kind of stuff is... is emotional reaction and cries for change, without any path to get here. It's no different than the media trotting out "women and children" constantly. It may as well be considered marketing TBH. Let's come up with some logical solutions my man.


Sorry but your appeal to logic falls on deaf ears when you start using the slippery slope argument (did someone say emotional reaction?) and keep bickering about what constitutes a dangerous weapon.


A slippery slope is not always fallacious. I am well aware of the fallacy. That does NOT mean a slippery slope, especially with well documented evidence doesn't exist. I can list off dozens of examples of a slippery slope with the government in regards to giving them an inch and they take a mile. I gave one very valid example in the Patriot Act from George W to show what I was referencing. A slippery slope is NOT the premises of my argument necessarily, just an example of the consequences of giving the government more power based on what we've seen historically.

Here is an excerpt from an article that defines it pretty nicely.

"A slippery slope argument is merely a claim that “A will lead to B” either as an inevitability, as an increased probability, or as a logical outcome. Slippery slope arguments are often misunderstood, and many people mistakenly think their use is always logically fallacious. As a general rule, if someone summarily dismisses a slippery slope claim, he or she is probably not the type of person who understands how arguments work. (For instance, there are numerous legal precedents where people have argued that accepting legal decision A will lead to B and have been proven correct.)"

In other words, a slippery slope can either be fallacious or not. I gave a good example of what I was comparing to as a point of reference and therefor don't believe the way I used it was fallacious. The US government has a LONG track record of abuse of power and rights.


I never claimed the slippery slope argument was always fallacious, just that you contradicted yourself when you used that argument and appealed to logic at the same time.

For some reason you tried to associate the topic at hand with the Patriot Act, which had nothing to do with with gun control to my knowledge, and screamed "slippery slope!" without starting to provide evidence to argue your position. Typical appeal to emotion to keep the status quo.

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